RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money....

RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 9:45:23 PM)
Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use. I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:04:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And then when they do get social security, they are expected to pay back the welfare funds they'd received. Exactly. No one wants to discuss that part. All those people who are "mooching" off the system end up having to pay back the system that is fucking them over to begin with. Only if the SS is retroactive. Welfare has limits on income, if it turns out you had that income then of course it should be paid back.

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:06:39 PM)
SS is retro to the date of application Nor do I think anyone should sit back and collect welfare and not pay it back when they collect a settlement from other sources. What bites is hearing others scream about the so called "moochers" who are, in fact, people who have to pay back the state when they win their cases.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:10:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl SS is retro to the date of application not always, but thats irrelevant. And I havent heard anyone call people who are legitimately unable to work moochers. thats your constant strawman.

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:19:03 PM)
Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory. If you cant be honest, this discussion is over.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:21:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory. If you cant be honest, this discussion is over. Not worth my time. I dont remember seeing any, I do remember you strawmanning about it often.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:34:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use. I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer. False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains.

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 10:40:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Take a look back at the welfare threads willbe and refresh your memory. If you cant be honest, this discussion is over. Not worth my time. I dont remember seeing any, I do remember you strawmanning about it often. You often have a selective memory. and a twisted definition of strawmanning.

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:01:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use. I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer. False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains. False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples. Multiply that by how many people are on welfare. Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:04:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use. I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer. False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains. False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples. Multiply that by how many people are on welfare. Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically. It is a small amount. False positive? Get retested. BFD

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:09:40 PM)
It is a BFD else the states wouldnt be pushing for it to lower their welfare numbers. It would be a BFD if you were out to get a loan and there was a computer error that denied 1 - 2.5% of the applicants erroneously.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl It is a BFD else the states wouldnt be pushing for it to lower their welfare numbers. It would be a BFD if you were out to get a loan and there was a computer error that denied 1 - 2.5% of the applicants erroneously. Wow you are really on a dumb roll. I said BFD to false positives. What states exactly are pushing for those?

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:36:01 PM)
Why shouldnt false positives be a big deal? The appeals process alone will cost alot of money... money someone who is filing for welfare and being denied based upon a false reading doesnt have. Of course its a big deal.

DeviantlyD -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:38:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use. I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer. False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains. False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples. Multiply that by how many people are on welfare. Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically. But it would be irresponsible to accept the result of a screening tool as an absolute. I would imagine they would have to verify the positives. And I do know the false positive rate varies by analyte and by the test method used. So....

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/20/2011 11:53:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why shouldnt false positives be a big deal? The appeals process alone will cost alot of money... money someone who is filing for welfare and being denied based upon a false reading doesnt have. Of course its a big deal. Appeals process costs a lot of money? You reapply and get retested. Costs nothing if it was actually a false positive.

tazzygirl -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/21/2011 12:02:38 AM)
Florida is out of pocket, remember? And, yes, the appeals process does cost money... money they would be receiving if the test had been accurate.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/21/2011 12:14:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im not saying there arent people on welfare who use. I am saying false positives are a bitch and this imperfect system isnt the answer. False positives aren't that frequent, although I can agree an imperfect system isn't the answer....but what is? The unanswerable question remains. False positives can show up in 1 to 2.5 percent of urine samples. Multiply that by how many people are on welfare. Seems like a small amount when speaking statistically. But it would be irresponsible to accept the result of a screening tool as an absolute. I would imagine they would have to verify the positives. And I do know the false positive rate varies by analyte and by the test method used. So.... Yes, it IS irresponsible, De... But it has been (and I suspect still is) done by those who have absolutely NO understanding of the chemistry involved (such as judges, or caseworkers, or what have you). I know it also costs (at retail)_around $200USD for a GC/MassSpec analysis, assuming enough of the original sample is left. I imagine the positives would be taken at face value because of the cost (like welfare recipients have $200 sitting around BEFORE they get on welfare... good thinking, ratfuckers) and the inconvenience/extra cost to the State, if it were a false positive. It truly IS an amazingly stupid idea, which sounds really good to ratfuckers (Hey! We're DOING something about all those welfare Cadillacs! (code for poor black folks) Vote for Me! (White People!))

Termyn8or -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/21/2011 12:14:47 AM)
FR You fucking people......... If you are on welfare and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you now live under a bridge. If you are a cab driver and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now on welfare. If you are a researcher at a university and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now a cab driver. This is all about weed. You can do almost any drug, and I mean hard drugs, and they are out of your system really fast. The only thing they can really detect is weed. So it is a cmpaign against weed, plain and simple. Unless you want to do hair tests. And those ain't $35. Yeah, just make welfare recipients pay out of pocket the $200 for the hair test, I'm sure they can spare it. Go fuck yourself. (I don't mean you here I mean the system) T^T

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/21/2011 12:19:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Florida is out of pocket, remember? And, yes, the appeals process does cost money... money they would be receiving if the test had been accurate. It gets reimbursed if you pass it, so its only out of pocket if youre trying to beat it. And false positives are granted retroactively to the original application.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Drug Testing Welfare applicants proven waste of money.... (8/21/2011 12:22:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or FR You fucking people......... If you are on welfare and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you now live under a bridge. If you are a cab driver and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now on welfare. If you are a researcher at a university and a friend of yours stops over and smokes a joint with you, you are now a cab driver. This is all about weed. You can do almost any drug, and I mean hard drugs, and they are out of your system really fast. The only thing they can really detect is weed. So it is a cmpaign against weed, plain and simple. Unless you want to do hair tests. And those ain't $35. Yeah, just make welfare recipients pay out of pocket the $200 for the hair test, I'm sure they can spare it. Go fuck yourself. (I don't mean you here I mean the system) T^T Any drug can easily be detected 2-5 days after using it. Thats plenty of time for the hard core users they are most concerned about.

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