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Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 6:48:43 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Survey: Almost 10% of employers may end health insurance

quote:


NDIANAPOLIS – Nearly one in 10 midsize or large employers expects to stop offering health coverage to workers once federal insurance exchanges start in 2014, according to a survey from a large benefits consultant.

Towers Watson also found in a survey completed last month that an additional 20% of companies are unsure about what they will do.

Another big benefits consultant, Mercer, found in a June survey of large and smaller employers that 8% are either "likely" or "very likely" to end health benefits once the exchanges start.



One theory floating around about why nobody cares what's in Obamacare, why we had to pass it to find out what was in it, is that it isn't intended to fix anything.  That's the theory that holds that whole point of this round of reform was to completely monkey-wrench the system, to cause even greater problems for a greater number of people, so a future liberal administration can then "fix it." They'd do that with either single-payer (which I think is a shitty idea) or actually nationalize healthcare (where I have a number of questions that need to be answered before I get on board).  With this theory comes a requirement that the liberals are so convinced of the justness of their cause that they are willing to deliberately and dramatically increase the misery of the people, so they can be the rescuers later.

If this theory is accurate, then it looks like we are off to a roaring start.

The other theory is the old truth that the path of good intentions leads straight to hell, and the Democrats are too stupid to ever learn the law of unintended consequences, no matter how many times something blows up in their collective face.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/24/2011 6:49:51 PM >

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 6:54:15 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I read that earlier.  Figured it would be either you or Firm who posted about it.

Those businesses seem to believe that it will be cheaper for them to pay the fines than to provide insurance for their employees.  I have to wonder, though.  And just consider this for a moment, Rich.

If insurance companies believe they are about to lose 10% of their business.... will they simply wave bye bye?


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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 7:32:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You always could have beat us to the punch, Tazzy...

Would they really be losing, though?  Unless the individual mandate is struck down by SCOTUS (fingers crossed for that), those employees will then be required by federal law to buy the product on their own, on an individual basis.  At least some of those buyers are sure to be clueless suckers, who will get screwed.  That ought to more than make up for the ones the insurance companies lose.



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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 8:08:00 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		I dont think the convoluted "monkey wrench" theory is needed. The express intent of Obamacare was to do exactly what the effect has been...termination of employer health coverage to drive people to the exchanges. Once the exchanges reach critical mass they become the only viable option remaning....ie single payer.

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 8:14:17 PM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

is that it isn't intended to fix anything.
of course it isn't, it's intended to sell more fucking insurance policies.

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 8:36:38 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Well, Hannah, it might be better to say "to get the government paying for more health insurance policies," instead.


< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/24/2011 8:37:01 PM >

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 8:50:08 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

is that it isn't intended to fix anything.
of course it isn't, it's intended to sell more fucking insurance policies.


The conspiracy theory that Obamcare was designed to help insurance companies is ass backwards. Insurance company profits on group policies are much greater than individual policies because of lower marketing costs and lower overall risk. The exchanges are just aggregations of individual policies. There is no way that is good for insurance companies in the long run.

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 8:51:12 PM   
HannahLynHeather


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From: where it's at
Status: offline 		no, it requires every fucking one of you to buy insurance. the insurance companies don't give a fuck if you pay for it or the government, as long as they get the fucking money.

it isn't some convoluted scheme by left wingers to sneak in "socialized" medicine. it's a fucking obvious blatant scheme to sell fucking insurance. it was written by the insurance lobby for fuck's sake.

government of the people, by the lobbyists, for the corporations. simple as fuck to see if you stop worrying about democrat/republican, left/right. those are just fucking empty labels, they all are owned, its just a question of which fucking industry's interests you want to support.


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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 8:59:07 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you for offering the anarchist's view, Hannah.  I'm sure it's easy for you to throw rocks, and if a bottle from a riot bounced off your head, you'd just get it stitched up by the Canadian gov't system, right?

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 9:01:19 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
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From: where it's at
Status: offline 		no, i don't participate in that system, i pay for my own health care out of my fucking pocket.

fuck you.


_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 9:08:02 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Awww, Hannah...  Are you having a rough day?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 9:55:18 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline 		no, you're just a fucking asswipe who assumes shit about me without any basis. i live by my beliefs. that and you don't know shit from shinola. if you honestly think there is a single member of congress who hasn't been bought lock stock and barrel by lobbyists and corporate interests, then i got this cool fucking bridge for sale.

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:02:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You always could have beat us to the punch, Tazzy...

Would they really be losing, though?  Unless the individual mandate is struck down by SCOTUS (fingers crossed for that), those employees will then be required by federal law to buy the product on their own, on an individual basis.  At least some of those buyers are sure to be clueless suckers, who will get screwed.  That ought to more than make up for the ones the insurance companies lose.




No need.  I tend to be able to debate with the two of you, so its all good.

If its not struck down... then they will have to buy their own or go to the exchanges.  I pondered then, and its becoming more than a wonder now, that this was the plan all along.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:05:41 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont think the convoluted "monkey wrench" theory is needed. The express intent of Obamacare was to do exactly what the effect has been...termination of employer health coverage to drive people to the exchanges. Once the exchanges reach critical mass they become the only viable option remaning....ie single payer.


I dont think 10% is what we can consider "termination".  Those who offer it will have the upper hand in term of benefits over those who do not offer it.  It becomes part of a premium employment package.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:17:41 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No, Hannah, mostly you are just a negative Nancy, with a dirty mouth, and I suspect you want bonus points for the martyrdom of living by your beliefs.  You remind me a little of the girl from Paul who had many curse words at her disposal, but wasn't sure how to use them yet.

Anarchy doesn't seem to be making you a happy person, perhaps it's time to believe in something new.  You don't sound like the ready-for-Jesus type just yet.  Have you read any John Norman?


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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:23:47 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		How would that work for a catastrophic illness or injury?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

no, i don't participate in that system, i pay for my own health care out of my fucking pocket.

fuck you.



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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:25:30 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

How would that work for a catastrophic illness or injury?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

no, i don't participate in that system, i pay for my own health care out of my fucking pocket.

fuck you.


Twens are immortal.


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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:25:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Well, Tazzy, SCOTUS will have to decide if the mandate is legal or not.  I won't bet a nickel on that outcome.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:30:40 PM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline
quote:

How would that work for a catastrophic illness or injury?

i die.

< Message edited by HannahLynHeather -- 8/24/2011 10:31:20 PM >

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: Obamacare = Fewer people with health insurance??? - 8/24/2011 10:32:12 PM   
DecadentDesire


Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
Status: offline 		There isn't enough information in that survey to draw some of the conclusions presented here.

It doesn't state the annual payroll of that 10%. If, hypothetically, the majority of that 10% is low enough to be except from the fines, then the exchanges are doing exactly what they are intended to do: Take the burden off small businesses that are struggling to offer health care.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq#i1

Also, the title is a bit misleading. It will be "fewer people without health insurance from the private sector" since the exchanges are meant to provide "high quality affordable health insurance options" to people who can't afford it independently and cannot get it from work.

Personally, I like the idea of the exchanges. I don't think it is going to be the end-all-be-all of the private sector. I think it is going to do what's it's supposed to. It's going to provide options for the people in the $30-35 and under bracket who are already having a hard time finding an employer who thinks its worth the investment to insure them (Seriously, for most of my early 20s, health insurance was a luxury. It didn't become an expectation until I crossed the $40k line.) I don't think the quality of the health care is going to be better then the private sector, providing incentive for employers who target college educated employees with high valued skills to continue to offer private options in order to be competitive.

Of course, I can think a lot of things and none of them can be close to what will happen in 2014. Guess we will just have to wait and see...


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