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RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/26/2011 12:05:26 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Good article. Damn tourists.

Here's a rebuttal: http://www.leatherati.com/leatherati_issues/2011/07/a-brutally-frank-message.html

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/26/2011 4:09:10 PM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-08-25/news/how-the-internet-killed-or-maybe-just-changed-dallas-leather-scene/

anyway.. feel free to chew on this...


Interesting article...thanks, Madame4a, for posting it as I hadn't seen it. Given some of what I've read lately, both here on CM and in certain groups on Fet, I can understand the frustration some folks have with the "add water and stir" mentality alluded to in the article and by a few on this thread.

That being said, without the accessability of the internet I wouldn't have been able to find my first munch let alone connect with my own local kink/alternative community.

Thanks, everyone, for all the replies...it's interesting to read all the opinions and experiences.

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RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/26/2011 6:48:07 PM   
CrazyCats


Posts: 116
Joined: 2/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

The question basically came down to this....did the internet's influence "kill" bdsm by making it available to anyone and everyone?



I found bdsm in my teens because of the net, so I can't really be all that against it, but I can understand where that sentiment is coming from. I am pretty certain that it was a radical alteration from how it was done. Fast, radical change is hard to deal with. (Just ask the record companies!)

There are positives, and there are negatives to the sudden intrusion of the internet into bdsm. (I have no idea about the impact on the Leather community unfortunately. That society was not one that I have ever looked into.) Personally, I feel that the good has outweighed the bad in this case. While there are a lot of casual tourists, the internet has brought in a large number of serous folks. Being annoyed with tourists is something akin to shouting "Get off my damn lawn!" So long as they are not doing real damage, I say, "meh."

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RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/26/2011 7:17:11 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

That was a great article, Madame4a! I've been reading a lot on Fet about the "dissolving" of leather, and how the men are wanting to go back underground. To get away from our chick cooties.

Yeah, that's something of a sore spot with me. Remember in the mid-90's, when there was this movement to "join" and "pansexual" was not a bad word? Lots of leathermen were and are supercool around women but dingaDANG some of them were/are like eight year olds on the playground.


What I remember about the mid-90s was all the women taking care of the leathermen who were dying of AIDS. 


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RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 1:26:40 AM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Oh Jesus you guys, the hipsters found us. Now we're going to have to hear about how things were better before they became mainstream. I would like to think I don't have to explain why it's absurd to think that the addition of new people somehow dilutes the BDSM gene pool, so I'll just say this: If it makes you feel any better, repetition of the Kinsey studies over the years have proven that there is no statistically significant shift whatsoever in sexual behavior. There are no more perverts now than there were 10 years ago or 30 years ago, internet or no. It's all in whether you see them or not. If you knock down an inside wall in the average apartment building you'll find bugs. If you don't, you probably won't. Does that mean knocking down the wall created bugs?


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 5:04:02 AM   
Rouge36


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/26/2011
Status: offline 		Being 36 years of age and having been online since I was just turning 18 I have never known life without BDSM being online. I have absolutely no personal reference point in which to compare online or not online where its concerned. I dont see it as good or bad at all. Its just part of life and part of everyday things. Like how I order coffee online or check morning blogs. I can come online and know in some form its there, somewhere. On an open page or lurking in a link.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 2:27:50 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
The question basically came down to this....did the internet's influence "kill" bdsm by making it available to anyone and everyone?


Did it influence, yes. Change influences everythng. Did it kill it...yes, sure, the net "killed" bdsm. And the Ramones killed punk. And Guns and Roses killed metal. And if you aren't laughing by now you more than likely have missed my point...and don't know enough about music (damn kids) "Killing" mystique does not kill an activity. Being popular does not make someone a sellout. And sharing infromation doesn't mean the world is coming to an end. All the net now means is that you don't have to go so far out of your way to explain things to family, friends, etc. You can actually give them articles, web sites, or introduce them other folks that can then help them understand things a little better(hopefully) If you are really lucky the net can help you find out that none of us are all that different from each other. 

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 8/27/2011 2:35:25 PM >

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RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 2:30:41 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		well said, MIP!!

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 2:39:50 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Thank you, Greedy. I couldn't help it, I love the Ramones, and hair metal, and the net. I also love the idea that when I said "submissive" when talking to my sister inlaw about the pet that lives with me she could just look it up and leave me alone....which she didn't but it did lead to a very interesting conversation that I willing to bet my brother wishs we hadn't had . I remember this "lifestyle" before computers and I don't think they have done the kind of harm some others think they have.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 5:58:05 PM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain
And the Ramones killed punk.


Just for you, MissImmortalPain... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKyFpJ3M1xM&feature=related

A bit of "Old Guard" American Punk.

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/27/2011 6:11:23 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Thank you BonesFromAsh. Now I have the Ramones stuck in my head. So this one is for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhh24BB84e4 Not the original version, but a nice sing along for anyone that doesn't know the words.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/28/2011 6:59:31 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		~~fast reply~~

Count me in as one who sees the Internet as more positive than negative. It helped me with the knowledge that I wasn't alone, helped me develop my own 'style', helped me see that my way isn't the only way. I may not want to do what some others do, but it has helped me see that that is OK. Sites like this have taught me a number of things, made me ponder and re-think some of my own beliefs. There are posters whose eloquence make me envious, and posters who make me laugh (sometimes with them, sometimes at them).
Whether one thinks it is a good or bad thing, the Internet is here. I plan to enjoy it!

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/29/2011 3:27:02 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I wanted to add another rebuttal or response at least to the original article that I posted.. its from Race Bannon... someone that I often agree with.. and if you do get a chance to hear Race speak -- I recommend it.

http://bannon.com/2011/08/25/the-state-of-kink-its-not-all-doom-and-gloom/

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/29/2011 11:55:05 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

I was enjoying some good food and conversation not too long ago with a number of kinky folks after a munch...a good mix of new, not quite so new, been around the block more than once and those who're leathery great-grandfolk...and the topic of the internet came up.

The question basically came down to this....did the internet's influence "kill" bdsm by making it available to anyone and everyone?

The discussion was pretty...um, lively to say the least. I'm curious to read what folks here have to say.



I've found it "killed" BDSM for some people. But, in my experience, it was people who liked being identified as outsiders in a showy way, and have a very rigid view of what BDSM should be (whatever they like, mostly).

Personally, my feeling is that BDSM isn't a state but a spectrum, and a far ranging one. I don't really care much if someone else wants to live a BDSM lifestyle 24x7 and another just wants to play with handcuffs with their spouse now and then. I don't care how different people define what a sub or domme is. But then I've never had much interest in BDSM as a community or in socializing with people simply because they liked BDSM. I simply look for compatible BDSM partners and socializing with people based on other interests.

To each his own.


(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/30/2011 8:05:32 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		It killed it for people that didn't like their shit exposed. it killed it for people that thought that they were important or special because of their interest in BDSM.

It changed things because people felt that their level of expertise was now given out for free.

That being a rigger was no longer the sure fire way to get laid.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/30/2011 8:51:15 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		FR (Having skimmed but not read the thread.)

The Marquis de Sade, he is laughing in his grave at the idea that anyone or anything could kill bdsm.

Bdsm is way older than the first old guard leatherman. When the last old guard leatherman has died bdsm will not die with him.

The internet might well have killed leather. But there's far more to bdsm than leather.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/30/2011 4:14:12 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		FR - just barely awake...
Having been around pre-internet.... there is a HUGE difference now.  That article is excellent.  There are a lot of people who just don't take things as seriously - and the amount of energy one has to put into this kind of thing at this point makes it much easier for people to just pop in.  A little knowledge can be dangerous. 

It's totally cool to not be into HEAVY relationships, but as the article pointed out, sometimes the new BDSM intertrolls are just looking for live porn... and then they can put people in danger with their lack of inhibitions.  HOWEVER, just because there are a lot more uneducated people around doesn't mean that the DMs and such shouldn't STILL be maintaining order.  I don't think having someone be (what's the word?)  vouched for is a bad thing.

Best,
sunshine


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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/30/2011 5:13:06 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Nicely put, me dear.  My thoughts exactly.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Video killed the radio star... - 8/30/2011 5:21:45 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

FR - just barely awake...
Having been around pre-internet.... there is a HUGE difference now.  That article is excellent.  There are a lot of people who just don't take things as seriously - and the amount of energy one has to put into this kind of thing at this point makes it much easier for people to just pop in.  A little knowledge can be dangerous. 

It's totally cool to not be into HEAVY relationships, but as the article pointed out, sometimes the new BDSM intertrolls are just looking for live porn... and then they can put people in danger with their lack of inhibitions.  HOWEVER, just because there are a lot more uneducated people around doesn't mean that the DMs and such shouldn't STILL be maintaining order.  I don't think having someone be (what's the word?)  vouched for is a bad thing.

Best,
sunshine


The word that you might be searching for there is "vetted".

There are a lot of groups out there that are still like this, too.  The set up is that you have to attend a certain amount of 'vanilla' or 'public' events (meaning the get to know you at the restaurant thing) before you get to the kink or private play events.  I've seen that as few as two or as many as five.  Other groups will base it on how long you've been going to the introduction events (one month to three months).

Some groups will also do what's called "reciprocal privileges".  Meaning if you're a member of another closed group, have become vetted with them, and members of that group can verify that you're a member in good standing, you won't have to go through the waiting period. 


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(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 59
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