RE: The GOP War on Voting

RE: The GOP War on Voting (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/3/2011 11:53:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Seems a silly argument to me. Require an ID to vote. Sweet, simple and to the point. If your 'ok' with your 4th Amendment being trampled, you must be 'ok' with the other amendments listed in the US Constitution being trampled as well. I wonder how many gun nuts would be 'ok' with the 2nd Amendment being removed? Or Liberals with the 1st? How many conservatives would be 'ok' with the 10th being removed? I suppose you'd be 'ok' with the goverment removing military barracks ('to save money') and forcing you to house a squad of USMC troops with 'room and board', right? Not many people know that's the 3rd Amendment.... I consider it 'unreasonable' that an American must 'show their papers' when ever the goverment demands it. That if someone states said American isn't who they say they are nor they live where they stated, its up to the accuser to show the burden of evidence. If defending the US Constitution is to much of a 'burden' on you for the simple stuff, will you defend it on the tough stuff?

tazzygirl -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/3/2011 11:56:01 PM)
When the Constitution was written, they didnt have ID's with cute... or not so cute.. pictures on them. Nor do I expect the FF's thought people would go to great lengths to cheat. People need IDs to do normal business these days. The Constitution is a living, changing document. I dont live in the past.

joether -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 12:24:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl When the Constitution was written, they didnt have ID's with cute... or not so cute.. pictures on them. Nor do I expect the FF's thought people would go to great lengths to cheat. People need IDs to do normal business these days. The Constitution is a living, changing document. I dont live in the past. Until the 4th Amendment is changed, that's how the law of the land works. When the US Constitution was created, we didn't have a sizable voting group of American's that didn't like American and were doing anything and everything to undermine it's existance. Back in those days we called 'em 'Tories'. Today, we call 'em 'Republicans' and/or 'Tea Party'. Businesses are not forced to operate the same way as the US Goverment. Which is why the admins on Cm can delete anyone's post for any reason and NOT be in violation of the 1st Amendment. If a business demands ID, it should be for an acceptable reason. Requiring people to show their ID to by 'large fries' would quickly put McDonalds out of business in days. However, companies can ask for ID, to verify information on a personal check or credit card. If you dont like a business checking your ID, dont do business with them. Now if you dont like businesses checking your ID, why not create a bill and pass it through Congress and the White House.

tazzygirl -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 12:29:43 AM)
quote: However, companies can ask for ID, to verify information on a personal check or credit card. If you dont like a business checking your ID, dont do business with them. Now if you dont like businesses checking your ID, why not create a bill and pass it through Congress and the White House. I have no issue with a business checking my ID. But the state and federal government also check IDs. If you want to do business with a business, and they ask for ID, then you either give it or walk away. If you want to do business with the government, same difference. I really dont see this as a big issue.

popeye1250 -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 12:34:16 AM)
Fargle, it's not even neccessary. Millions won't vote anyway because of the failure of the Oblunder administration. And he's already lost the Independents so it's "goodnight Irene" for him.

tazzygirl -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 12:45:23 AM)
Pops, no offence, but didnt you state that McCain would win in 2008?

HannahLynHeather -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 2:50:06 AM)
quote: I consider it 'unreasonable' that an person must 'show their papers' when ever the goverment demands it. That if someone states said person isn't who they say they are nor they live where they stated, its up to the accuser to show the burden of evidence. fyfp there joether.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 2:52:32 AM)
quote: Nor do I expect the FF's thought people would go to great lengths to cheat. then you're fucking naive - they were counting on it

farglebargle -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 7:03:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR Seems a silly argument to me. Require an ID to vote. Sweet, simple and to the point. It's not your job to verify your voter's registration is good. That's the job of the board of elections. It's not your job to prove your identity when you vote. That's the job of the board of elections. You don't fix a problem with the board of elections by making the voter do things which don't secure the process. If your state doesn't use the strongest identification of cross-checking your signature against your registration, maybe instead of using a weaker form of ID, you ask your board of elections why they're not doing it correctly. If you think showing a photo ID to vote is a good thing, you don't know very much about security and authentication. ( Or how accessible fake drivers licenses really are. )

subrob1967 -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 7:54:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether If your 'ok' with your 4th Amendment being trampled, you must be 'ok' with the other amendments listed in the US Constitution being trampled as well. I wonder how many gun nuts would be 'ok' with the 2nd Amendment being removed? Or Liberals with the 1st? How many conservatives would be 'ok' with the 10th being removed? I suppose you'd be 'ok' with the goverment removing military barracks ('to save money') and forcing you to house a squad of USMC troops with 'room and board', right? Not many people know that's the 3rd Amendment.... I consider it 'unreasonable' that an American must 'show their papers' when ever the goverment demands it. That if someone states said American isn't who they say they are nor they live where they stated, its up to the accuser to show the burden of evidence. If defending the US Constitution is to much of a 'burden' on you for the simple stuff, will you defend it on the tough stuff? Well it's becoming more and more obvious that your definition of unreasonable differs from the court's definition... Perhaps you should crack open a dictionary and refresh your memory... Frankly asking people to identify themselves is hardly unreasonable, and only an unreasonable person could possibly think it was. Trying to hold the government for one set of standards, and living a different set of standards is not only unreasonable, it's fucking insanity, you can't have it both ways.

EternalHoH -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 7:59:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Finally, a war we're winning![8\|] So the right of legal Americans to vote has become a combat situation for you?

tazzygirl -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 10:11:25 AM)
quote: If your state doesn't use the strongest identification of cross-checking your signature against your registration, maybe instead of using a weaker form of ID, you ask your board of elections why they're not doing it correctly. If you think showing a photo ID to vote is a good thing, you don't know very much about security and authentication. ( Or how accessible fake drivers licenses really are. ) Pft, I could sign my mothers name by the time I was 12. Came in handy when cutting school. A signature based id system doesnt ensure security.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 10:32:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Seems a silly argument to me. Require an ID to vote. Sweet, simple and to the point. If your 'ok' with your 4th Amendment being trampled, you must be 'ok' with the other amendments listed in the US Constitution being trampled as well. I wonder how many gun nuts would be 'ok' with the 2nd Amendment being removed? Or Liberals with the 1st? How many conservatives would be 'ok' with the 10th being removed? I suppose you'd be 'ok' with the goverment removing military barracks ('to save money') and forcing you to house a squad of USMC troops with 'room and board', right? Not many people know that's the 3rd Amendment.... I consider it 'unreasonable' that an American must 'show their papers' when ever the goverment demands it. That if someone states said American isn't who they say they are nor they live where they stated, its up to the accuser to show the burden of evidence. If defending the US Constitution is to much of a 'burden' on you for the simple stuff, will you defend it on the tough stuff? 4th Amendment???? rofl, try reading it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

tazzygirl -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 10:44:52 AM)
Now, see? That was what I was thinking, willbe. I cant seem to find anything in the 4th that has any revelance to voting.

MrRodgers -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 10:57:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Thanks fargle. This is obviously a serious situation. I never realized that so many Democratic votes came from anonymous persons-without-identification, non-citizens, and ex-felons. K. Oh come on, the repub behind-the-scene operatives are doing a whole lot more than that. They do a version of mail phishing where they mail out flyers to every known or even suspected dem address. If they do not reply within a certain few days, the repubs list them on a petition to the FEC and their respective states to have them removed from the voter registration list. Never mind they may be on vacation or moving or anything else for that matter. The GOP even do mail out to military personnel who of course may be out on deployment anywhere. YEP, you got it, they attempt to have them removed from the polls too. Think about that one, once after the fact...NO absentee ballots are accepted upon submission. Like I've said, when it comes to political tricks and corruption, there is nothing like the American repubs...real pros.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 11:17:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Now, see? That was what I was thinking, willbe. I cant seem to find anything in the 4th that has any revelance to voting. They try to conflate requiring ID with a "search", ignoring that you are voluntarily exercising a right granted by the government, not being subjected to unreasonable search to ferret out illegal or anti-government activities, the real purpose of the 4th.

popeye1250 -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 11:41:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko I have wondered for years, every time I have voted, when I stood there and gave them my name...."How do they know it's really me?" I've always just put my license down on the table, they look at it and check me off. It's not even inconvenient. Also in N.H. and Massachusetts there's always a few cops hanging around the polls on election day. Joether, many people do that voluntarily, it's no big deal! "Show us your papers???" I think everyone is in favor of honest elections. If anyone is "uncomfortable" with that there has to be something else going on there. If you get pulled over by a cop in Massachusetts for a traffic violation you have to "show your papers" correct? And not just your license but proof of insurance and registration. Am I close? Fargle, when you woke up this morning did you check under the bed to make sure no Republicans were hiding under there?

DomKen -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 11:51:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Seems a silly argument to me. Require an ID to vote. Sweet, simple and to the point. If your 'ok' with your 4th Amendment being trampled, you must be 'ok' with the other amendments listed in the US Constitution being trampled as well. I wonder how many gun nuts would be 'ok' with the 2nd Amendment being removed? Or Liberals with the 1st? How many conservatives would be 'ok' with the 10th being removed? I suppose you'd be 'ok' with the goverment removing military barracks ('to save money') and forcing you to house a squad of USMC troops with 'room and board', right? Not many people know that's the 3rd Amendment.... I consider it 'unreasonable' that an American must 'show their papers' when ever the goverment demands it. That if someone states said American isn't who they say they are nor they live where they stated, its up to the accuser to show the burden of evidence. If defending the US Constitution is to much of a 'burden' on you for the simple stuff, will you defend it on the tough stuff? 4th Amendment???? rofl, try reading it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. Yes it does quote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized Does a poll worker, acting as an agent of the government, have probable cause as defined by the amendment? Then they cannot demand identification any more than a LEO can.

subrob1967 -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 11:59:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Seems a silly argument to me. Require an ID to vote. Sweet, simple and to the point. If your 'ok' with your 4th Amendment being trampled, you must be 'ok' with the other amendments listed in the US Constitution being trampled as well. I wonder how many gun nuts would be 'ok' with the 2nd Amendment being removed? Or Liberals with the 1st? How many conservatives would be 'ok' with the 10th being removed? I suppose you'd be 'ok' with the goverment removing military barracks ('to save money') and forcing you to house a squad of USMC troops with 'room and board', right? Not many people know that's the 3rd Amendment.... I consider it 'unreasonable' that an American must 'show their papers' when ever the goverment demands it. That if someone states said American isn't who they say they are nor they live where they stated, its up to the accuser to show the burden of evidence. If defending the US Constitution is to much of a 'burden' on you for the simple stuff, will you defend it on the tough stuff? 4th Amendment???? rofl, try reading it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. Yes it does quote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized Does a poll worker, acting as an agent of the government, have probable cause as defined by the amendment? Then they cannot demand identification any more than a LEO can. No it doesn't. Voting is not mandatory, it's voluntary, you have the right not to go vote, therefore not show any form of identification, and not have your faux indignation raised.. And despite your childish temper tantrum, asking someone for identification doesn't fall under the definition of unreasonable... But you know that already. This is just another Lefty bullshit whine fest because ineligible voters aren't being allowed to vote for their candidates.

subrob1967 -> RE: The GOP War on Voting (9/4/2011 12:02:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Yes it does quote: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized Does a poll worker, acting as an agent of the government, have probable cause as defined by the amendment? Then they cannot demand identification any more than a LEO can. No it doesn't. Voting is not mandatory, it's voluntary, you have the right not to go vote, therefore not show any form of identification, and not have your faux indignation raised.. And despite your childish temper tantrum, asking someone for identification doesn't fall under the definition of unreasonable... But you know that already, and if you don't here's the proof... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada This is just another Lefty bullshit whine fest because ineligible voters aren't being allowed to vote for their candidates.

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