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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 12:20:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Cucky, as long as you realize that there are numbnuts on both sides of the aisle, I'll agree with you there.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 12:22:14 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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"Before the great depression our country was in good financial shape and was a positive constructive force in getting us through it. This time around if we have a financial melt down our government, because of its weak financial condition, will be a liability and people will suffer for decades and you and I will not let that happen. Right? Right." Ross Perot

Btw, if democrats had voted for Ross Perot insted of Bill Clinton, I would bet my life that the national debt would never have passed $5 trillion and maybe even declined. Instead the democrats took advantage of half the republicans voting for Ross. They basically put partisanship before the future of their children.

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 12:28:26 PM   
Termyn8or


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Happy to engage FQ

Yes, it is not cost effective to build washing machines in the US. Now I have no idea what the minimum wage is in the US but I imagine it's about eight bucks an hour. People may be surprised to learn that China and other countries have a minimum wage as well. They would be surprised to find that other countries actually have environmental regulations as well as OSHA type laws about the safety of the workplace. They would also be alarmed at how much these regulations are broken by US companies in persuit of the almighty buck.

Sure, abuses happen in other countries but the fact is in this country if you don't cheat you don't win. We are a fucking nation of crooks, face it. When a member of your board of directors takes the government regulatory official to the titty bar, the whorehouse and beyond, it is all tax deductable. You just never got your feet wet if you don't understand this.

Let me put it this way, My house caught fire in 1995. Well for the insurance I had to fill out forms indicating what personal items were lost and/or damaged. On one line was "Illegal cable box". That's fucking right. I swear I should've put down "A pound of good weed". Firearm silencers, who the fuck knows ?

With the way they fuck people over in their jobs these days, labor costs ARE NOT REALLY HIGHER IN THIS COUNTRY anymore. There are other reasons the jobs go overseas. And I might as well just tell you now.

Remember the stories about the "mafia", how they would break your legs for ten bucks and shit ? Well those nasty MFs have gotten a new gig with the government. The new "mafia" is much more friendly. But it's only mafia when the government is looking. When you buy an ounce it's not. You see in reality, if you do anything illegal YOU are in the mafia. (that may be bullshit but it is the standard disclaimer)

We are a nation of crooks, and this whole thing could work really well for all of us if those in government were jhust a bit less greedy. Here's an example for ya, construction/remodeling. If you do any serious wiring or plumbing to a house it must be inspected. I have no problem with that and I actually believe that if you do fucked up wiring in someone's house and because of it someone gets hurt or dies you should go to fucking prison. But other people don't always think that way.

I am not all that great, I am a really good hack and my work is safe and all that, but I am not licensed in any way. And I don't want to be. And my selling point ? If something goes wrong and it's my fault, I PAY, not some fucking insurance company. Now who has the greater incentive to do the job right ?

So I can see this, we ARE a nation of crooks. If we all would cooperate we could have it good, one and all, but we can't because the people at the top must have it all. Despite the fact that they have 90% of it, they just have to have that last 10%. Just because. And they don't need it at all, they just want it.

Wel I understand their mindset, I know how they are. And I know that they have already gone too far and this whole thing is going to fall down.

Let it be.

T^T

[unproofed, got people]

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 12:51:02 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
"Before the great depression our country was in good financial shape and was a positive constructive force in getting us through it. This time around if we have a financial melt down our government, because of its weak financial condition, will be a liability and people will suffer for decades and you and I will not let that happen. Right? Right." Ross Perot

Btw, if democrats had voted for Ross Perot insted of Bill Clinton, I would bet my life that the national debt would never have passed $5 trillion and maybe even declined. Instead the democrats took advantage of half the republicans voting for Ross. They basically put partisanship before the future of their children.


Didn't take conservatives long to try to turn this thread into a 'bitch festing partisan' battle, did it?

Yes, if Ros Perot thoughts and actions were along the lines of Democrats at the time, the Republican would have won. Go cry a river on some other thread, cucky! Likewise, since Ros Perot was never voted in, we'll never know what he could or couldnt have accomplished. So why debate about an irrelavent fantasy?


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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 1:07:15 PM   
Aneirin


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Interesting T, it was only recently I came to the conclusion that buying insurance makes us less caring of our property, and that because loss equals pay outs from insurance companies, and with that loss made by the insurance company always has to be recovered, so up goes the insurance premiums, to a point where it may be one could even have paid more in premiums than what the original claim was worth. Now, if it was we did not have insurance for our property, I wonder how thorough we would be in ensuring it is protected from theft or harm. The same applies to services, how thorough would we be if we did not have a company we paid to pick up where we fucked up. Therefore, it could be the gamble that is insurance has made us sloppy in our actions, and with that sloppiness, an I don't care attitude seems to have infected society and industry.

In this country, for certain activities, i.e. using a private motor vehicle, we have got to have insurance by law, perhaps understandably so where death and injury can easily be caused, but in making that requirement for insurance law, the legislators have failed to regulate the insurance companies in what they charge for the compulsory insurance. This is causing myself and a great many other people who are on the verge of starting their own businesses big problems, where myself the cheapest quotation I can get for an 18 year old car worth £400 is £1100 a year, just so I can get to my work location. As sadly public transport is expensive and erratic and I recently had to argue my case with a bus driver because he was refusing to allow me to bring a MIG welder on the bus to take to my proposed work location, as I am in the process of moving my tools out to the smithy I have rented for my business. Others on the business start up seminars I attend are also experiencing similar problems, though they have the wit to get started, compulsory vehicle insurance premiums are to many prohibitive, bearing in mind those who are ready to start now, are former long term unemployed whom finance institutions will not touch with a shitty stick. But of interest, many of those long term unemployed, are former skilled trades from industries which we have lost from this country, and ex military tradesmen, trained in er..., repairing military equipment, but the intellect and hand skills can be used elsewhere, in places the people have isolated themselves, and so seek to start their own businesses, where the job market lacks.

But maybe it is we have all been too far sucked into the gamble that is insurance, it has destroyed us as workers and it has raped our pockets due to the compensation culture, in that culture, the lowest tiers of society always lose.

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 1:27:07 PM   
popeye1250


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One way to create jobs (in the private sector) is to get us out of all those "free-trade" deals like "NAFTA", "Cafta" (equals shafta.) and all the others.
Or, just pay everyone in this country $1 an hour so we can "compete" against foreign slave labor.
It's funny when our own government tells us we need to "compete" against foreign countries while there are in excess of 130 countries getting "foreign aid" from us! How is that "competing?"
If we were *really* competing against those foreign countries we would have pounded them back to the stone age by now! That's not "capitalism."
And I don't understand why people are worried about China; would you rather be "owed" trillions or to "owe" trillions?
There's a "tipping point" somewhere in there that gives the advantage to the "owe-er"
And just *who* wants to be involved in "free-trade" deals anyway? Certainly not The People of this country! My life isn't going to change for the better because I can buy a plastic laundry basket at Walmart's for $3.99 instead of  $4.99. or even $6.99 made by Americans!
You want to create jobs, then we need to start *manufacturing* things in this country.
We need to tell the big cos. who are responsible for those rotten trade deals; "you want to sell it in the U.S., make it in the U.S.!
"You want to sell it overseas, make it overseas."
The People should *always* have more say in D.C. than big cos.
This so-called "global economy" doesn't work for the working, or middle classes.
And now that we all know that any "free trade deal" simply doesn't work for The People but makes only about 20,000 people in this country obscenely rich that just goes to show you how much corruption there is in our govt.
They didn't listen to The People they listened to those 20,000! Everyone else has to suffer while they get rich! They're grabbing all that money from everyone else's wages. If you made $40 an hour ten years ago you're making $28 an hour now.
And now Oblunder wants to have more "free-trade" deals with S. Korea and Colombia?
What do they make in S. Korea that we just can't live without???
Oh, and didn't Oblunder promise us that he'd get us out of NAFTA during his campaign *3* years ago?"
You see, to our govt. and big business we are no longer "people" we are,...."consumers."
Remember Clinton during Nafta? "We're worried about ..."the consumer." Well now that,...."the consumers" have very little money where is all that "concern" about,..."the consumers" now???
You want jobs, get us out of this "global economy" that can only go on for so long before it collapses and out of all those "free trade deals!"
Right now we're staring over the cliff of being in another (D)epression.
I wonder what the Chinese will say when we declare Chap. 11 or 13?
Does *anyone* in their right mind think we'll be able to pay back $14 Trillion or whatever the figure is?
Our govt. and big business have stolen so much that there's very little if anything left to steal anymore!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/5/2011 1:43:50 PM >


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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 1:29:35 PM   
Fellow


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quote:

Thank you 'Chicken Little' for your assement of things. Do you regularly walk the streets with a big postard card on your front and back that reads "The End is Near, REPENT!" ???

Your whole post is one thinly veiled attack on President Obama. Like the whole of the economic situation in America is absolutely his fault. How about instead of your petty attacks and doomsday moanings you actually get with the topic, and put forth suggestions and ideas that might improve the situation?


It is not an attack on Obama. Just stating the obvious. Obama should be attacked from both sides, left and right. How many trillions have he spent or helped to spend to "create jobs"? The man is illiterate as the economy is concerned. Besides, he seems not even have any desire to change the job situation. He is just a political propaganda distributor. I suggest to elect Ron Paul. He will speed up the system crash (similar to Gorbatchew in Russia) and paves the way for fast recovery.


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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 1:44:42 PM   
Termyn8or


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My solution is to die.

Don't get me wrong, I am not depressed nor am I likely to do anything to bring on my self demise. Suffice it to say I am ecstatic about the fact that I have no children to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps this belief is wrong somehow, in the finality of it, since my only sibling is also childless. I think our bloodline quite valuable, and perhaps in mail I can blow that horn, but not out here in the forum. The strengths of my Parents are many.

But there is no solution, let alone one that we can effect. I have come to grips with that, and now I am simply going to enjoy the rest of my life. I will try to help others when able, I think it's a cool thing to do. I think that it's part of the reason we are here. My killer ass job is fucking gone, sure I get one day a week at it, but that ain't cutting it. I have somewhere to go and after selling my house I will have money. I've had money before, what do I do ? What I want to do.

I'm 51 and ready to retire, they just won't start cutting me checks for about fifteen more years. I don't blame them, there are too many people for that shit. And if there were fewer people, where would the money come from ? So, I am still able to work therefore I will most likely have to take half of what I used to make.

Actually I am a spoiled fucking brat. I used to like going to work. Alot of days I learnd something new, or did something cool. And the regular days were not so bad either. For me, this time of life is to wake up to what life is like for a hell of alot of people and I don't like it. And one of these days I am going to wind up taking one of those shit jobs that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, and probably become a slave to it out of necessity.

Don't wonder why I am half crazy, wonder why I am only half crazy.

T^T

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 2:00:35 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


One general rule is that if people in the lower economic strata get money, they spend it.  Hell, sometimes they spend it when they don't have it.  The wealthy sometimes do this, but they also invest/save money more than the poor folks.  So any income redistribution that favors the wealthy will drag the economy, and any that favors low-income will stimulate it.



Not quite right DS.

Lower economic strata gets money, they spend it. Correct and stimulative
Sometimes they spend it when they dont hav it. Correct and stimulative
The wealthy sometimes spend Correct and stimulative
The wealth invest and save Correct and MORE stimulative
Income redistribution from the wealthy to low income DRAGS the economy, because it is taking money out of the more stimulative activity.


More Reagan golden shower economics Willbeur?

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 2:12:12 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

"Before the great depression our country was in good financial shape and was a positive constructive force in getting us through it. This time around if we have a financial melt down our government, because of its weak financial condition, will be a liability and people will suffer for decades and you and I will not let that happen. Right? Right." Ross Perot

Btw, if democrats had voted for Ross Perot insted of Bill Clinton, I would bet my life that the national debt would never have passed $5 trillion and maybe even declined. Instead the democrats took advantage of half the republicans voting for Ross. They basically put partisanship before the future of their children.



You do realize that under the Clinton administration there was a budget surplus which means the national debt was declining.

The CBO predicted it to continue declining until Bush took office and decided that tax cuts were the better option and he quickly turned those surpluses into deficits.

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 3:01:37 PM   
popeye1250


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*Anytime* you hear a politician say, "those jobs aren't comming back" you *know* he's one of the ones who's, "in the satchel."

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 3:39:44 PM   
submittous


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So American business needs money invested into it in order to create jobs? With a couple of Trillion dollars in cash on it's books? Yea, they're just too short of cash and we need to give them (and/or the super rich who control them) tax money.

I know we were all told in Econ 101 that Wall Street is needed because it finances new businesses and the theory is money invested or even put into banks goes to businesses that then create jobs but if you'd been awake this last couple decades you'd see the rules have changed and the business of banking has changed even more. Wall Street has lost all facade of doing anything but speculating and making a profit. American businesses aren't American any more and feel their only job is to maximize profits... if the American economy tanks they'll sell somewhere else.

After the deregulation of the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations all the old rules aren't applicable any longer. A couple of assumptions used in the 'old' theory aren't true in today's world.... companies will do what's in their best interest in the long run and they will do what's good for the overall economy because they feel patriotic and that their future relies on a strong long term economy.... Today's American business communities don't but either of those assumptions, they don't look beyond the next quarterly report and feel no allegiance to the USA.

We have a country where the businesses have a surplus of cash (15% of GDP?) but isn't investing or creating new jobs.... how does that fit into your old Econ 101 book?

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 4:05:26 PM   
Termyn8or


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FR

You just don't get it. You think it's the government. Well yes the government is exaserbating the problem but they are somwhat a reflection of the constituency. We have to admit it to ourselves, that we don't want to work anymore. We want it all on a silver platter. When we get honest enough to realize that, maybe some of us will go back to work, REAL WORK.

Henry Ford was cool. So he didn't like Jews, big fucking deal, I don't like Ukrainians, Jews well they're OK. Sure I'm a racist, but you have no fucking idea. I'll even kill my own kind. It's like being the anti-Christ, but that's beside the point.

PEOPLE do not want to invest here. That laundromat down the corner was not started with tax money, neither was the car dealership up the street. The problem is nobody wants to do anyhting because they have no faith in the economy because the only motherfuckers we seem to be able to elect are fucking idiots. They shit where they eat, they don't fucking care about anyone other than their mistress (not BDSM type) and their fucking boat. We can't get anyone with a fucking brain in office and I don't meant just Obama, I mean every fucking President in the last thirty fucking years. There is one thing for fucking sure, only two possibilities, either they did not care about this country or they were fucking stupid. It was one or the other. Maybe both.

Bulmotherfuckigshit to anyone who disputes this. Look at the economies of China, Singapore, fucking about a third of the world. They are growing, getting better. They are doing this in some cases with little or no natural resources. Slave labor my ass, they have houses, food and cars. What more do we have in this ut-fucking-topia in which we supposedly live ? What, they only got AM car radios or some shit ? How much worse are their slave laborers than ours ?

They fact is folks, that the big money is abandoning the US economy. I mean the really big money, the guys who can buy and sell Bill Gates with pocket change. Think of it, just what is going to happen. Just because a once great nation stood on this soil doesn't mean it will forever, or even in perpetuity. All that we build can be destroyed.

The jobs are not coming back, and this country has already been taken over, without a shot fired. A thread came up about the Chinese having eminent domain, and what those who understand what that is expressing rage over it, overshadows the fact that it really doesn't matter.

In my beloved forgery it says that it doesn't matter if the foe is foreign or domestic. In light of that wise, yet forged statement I say this : If the US government is our friend, we don't need any enemies.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/5/2011 4:11:06 PM >

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 4:13:52 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
One general rule is that if people in the lower economic strata get money, they spend it.  Hell, sometimes they spend it when they don't have it.  The wealthy sometimes do this, but they also invest/save money more than the poor folks.  So any income redistribution that favors the wealthy will drag the economy, and any that favors low-income will stimulate it.


It's not like they bury it in their back yard. It stays in the economy, it just goes towards intelligent investment to build wealth instead of random trash. I'm not saying we should redistribute to the wealthy, either, but the implication there is that if you give it to them it quits working in the economy which doesn't make sense. Fractional reserve lending means that even if they put it in a standard savings acct it still gets lent back out for one thing or another.


At this time most 'investments' are simply accounting details chasing other accounting details in financial institutions. There is next to no economic stimulus from this sort of invetment and in some cases, commodity trading, too much activity results in seriously negative economic consequences.

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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 4:45:33 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Lay out your vision for creating jobs.

imo, stop fucking hog tying small businesses.

Depending on what source you believe, anywhere from 64 to 75% of all new jobs are created from small businesses.

The govt at all levels hog ties new and existing businesses with regulations up the ying yang. Not to mention tons of fees, especially in certain states and greedy cities, home contruction in SoCal is outrageous, tens of thousands of dollars in so called impact and development fees, one city there even has a kangaroo rat fee (wtf?) tacked on to any new construction. And good ole swarzeneger had to go and add more regulations Jan 2011 so now every new home now has to be green too (green according to the govt). Those are just a few examples of govt stupidity at work with your tax dollars to create dis-incentives for new small businesses.

(notice i said small business, not mega corps)



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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 5:25:23 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Lay out your vision for creating jobs.

imo, stop fucking hog tying small businesses.

Depending on what source you believe, anywhere from 64 to 75% of all new jobs are created from small businesses.




Actually, according to data from the Center for Economic and Policy Research have shown, small businesses account for only 7.2 percent of total US employment, a significantly smaller share of total employment than in most Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries.


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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 6:08:51 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
Actually, according to data from the Center for Economic and Policy Research have shown, small businesses account for only 7.2 percent of total US employment, a significantly smaller share of total employment than in most Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries.

I was talking about new jobs.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25/economists-credit-small-business-gazelles-job-creation/

http://articles.philly.com/2011-07-04/business/29736195_1_job-creation-small-firms-new-jobs

http://www.kauffman.org/research-and-policy/where-will-the-jobs-come-from.aspx

http://www.sba.gov/advocacy/7495/8420


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RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 6:54:07 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Partially correct (semantics).  Investment is spending, ergo stimulative.



NO.

Just throwing money, willy-nilly, on the basis that it will stimulate is stupid.  Bush and Obama did it in tax cuts, and Obama did it in a stimulus.  Neither worked.

Before you do something like that, you need to find out what the problem is.  In this case, the problem is that people are not spending.

Increasing investment money will STILL not fix the problem.  The investment money will find its way to growing economies like China and India.



Yes but...if that's your Federalist Papers then I have to beg the obvious which is....if they stimulate (QE19 or 37), then we have more people buying stuff...ergo, a larger "economy"...and obviously....more debt.  If they spend less (no more QE), then a smaller economy, less debt, more pain.

Either is a bitch.

Frankly, I couldn't care less because....I cover both bets, so I win every time but....one's gonna hurt in 20 years....one's gonna hurt right fucking now.

The net is...(and everyone who pays taxes....key...."who pays taxes") understands that...if we throw the fucktards out (as soon as possible), and when we do....we stop being passive fuckheads and accepting the status quo....pay more taxes (and demand that EVERYONE pays something), and we pounce on the fuckers that write the rules and....QUIT "demanding" that they live by the same gig we do....and just fucking see to it.

We win.  But we won't.....because we don't.

I don't know if Ron Paul is the right guy....looking at his website on facebook...it seems like it's all about the money.

I think he's for real, but his facebook page gives me the shivers.

Perot.

I think he was the real deal.  Could he have fixed it?  Fuck if I know.

My Mom asked me (then, when I was actually still a participant)..."why did you vote for Perot....you knew he couldn't win....WTF? (Mom didn't actually say WTF....I'm filling in gaps here)...she went on to clarify that, I should have voted for someone "who could win".

I explained to her (a young, then 43 year old, with some level of trust in the system) that...."my job, Mom....is to vote for the best (man)....who can win is beside the point"...and I felt I did well in my vote.

(I'm sure I'm rambling a bit here).

You (DarkSteven) said..."Before you do something like that, you need to find out what the problem is."

What is the problem?

It's largesse.  It's incumbency.  It's "who can do something for me today...so I can do for you tomorrow".  It's the Davis Bacon act of the late 20's, early 30's which insures that every job, paid for with federal or state money is governed by Unions.....trust me...I own a construction company...if I bid on a federal job, my guys, who earn VERY good money (65- 100K a year) will earn twice that if they worked all year long on federal projects.

Unions?  They'll earn 85+% of the same proscribed wage.

The Davis Bacon act is a Union protection federal law.

Think about that for a second.   The Davis Bacon act was designed so that (during FDR) no (man) would earn less than a "comparable" wage.

Today the Davis Bacon act requires that non union companies pay a premium to work on federal jobs.

Now, the fact that the same 7 million dollar job could be done for 2 or 3 or even 4 million is beside the point.

Your taxes are being spent to insure that someone who could do the job for 18 bucks an hour.....is paid 53.

Does that, in the remotest possible sense, seem odd to you?

(And there's hundreds of other examples, if not thousands...every federal program is a VAST example).

We're so inundated with smegma, detritus, waste, pure unadulterated shit on our shoulders...it's almost scary.

No one needs to wonder where our money is going....I'll be happy to tell you....it's going to special interests.

And that's not just a misnomer.....it's a catchall.....it's not just a place for reporters to write about....

It's a fact.  And it's eating portions of your wallet or your purse every day.

You're losing your country by attrition.

By accepting what someone else told you was true.

(It's not).

Yep....well....there ya go.

JJ










(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 6:57:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Term limits.

Lobby restrictions.

Two great places to start.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Job, jobs, jobs - 9/5/2011 10:30:46 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
"We're so inundated with smegma, detritus, waste, pure unadulterated shit on our shoulders...it's almost scary."

Well for one smegma is one of my favorite words. Don't ask why, I ain't gay or anything but one time me and a few buddies from work were out to lunch, smoking desert actually and we just kept on saying the word smegma, over and over again. We could barely walk back in the fucking building we were laughing so hard.

But you make a good point. We must separate the chaff from the wheat, but now we have people saying that the chaff has a right to exist, using our fucking money.

And alot of it is in the fucking government to start with. Actually the government really could be the smegma. 

Constructuion company ey ? I might mail you if you don't mind.

T^T

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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