RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/6/2011 5:15:57 PM

Sanity

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Everything he writes

But I was referring specifically to the "You routinely reject even mainstream sources" part.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

where is he lying exactly???

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/6/2011 5:42:21 PM

Lucylastic

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but you do
he isnt lying...

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/6/2011 6:48:45 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

The mujhadeen were primarily a nationalist coalition dedicated to getting rid of the Russians. After the Russians left, they splintered and fought among themselves on multiple levels, in much the same way as Afghans have always done. From this fight, the Taliban emerged as a dominant force but not even the Taliban ever controlled the entirety of Afghanistan.

I have never heard any knowledgeable one query their nationalist agenda or the fact that the mujhadeen were overwhelmingly Afghani nationals.

Then you know nothing of the facts. The muhajeddin leaders couldn't put together a post occupation government in large part because their leaders weren't Afghans.

Stop talking through your hat DK.

Your claim is the first and only time I have ever heard it. No one knowledgeable about Afghanistan subscribes to this view (AFAIK), not have I ever heard it articulated by any one knowledgeable about Afghani affairs. The only source you've offered - wiki - doesn't back up the claims you've made (your claims relying entirely, you advise us, on wiki as a source).

To date, the only evidence you have presented to support your claims that the mujhadeen were "to a large degree' non-Afghanis is one individual - OBL. This is pathetic.

I'd love to see some credible evidence to support your nonsensical claim that the post- Soviet Government in Afghanistan collapsed "in large part because their leaders weren't Afghans". But I doubt if I ever will - I have grave doubts that any such evidence exists. But please present such evidence as you have (if any) and let us all evaluate it on its merits.

The mujhadeen were a broad coalition that was formed to oppose Soviet occupation. It was rife with personal, ethnic, regional and political agendas/rivalries, (some of them dating back for generations or even centuries) which caused its inevitable collapse. For much the same reasons that such coalitions have always failed in Afghanistan and often fail elsewhere.

You're entitled to hold any opinion you like (be it informed or otherwise), but if you're going to present drivel like this as factual, you need to back it up with credible evidence. The only evidence we've seen so far has either been false ( re Mullah Omar) or grossly inadequate (re OBL).

So let's see some evidence to support your claims (and no more misleading/false links thanks). Otherwise you're putting yourself in the same basket as Sanity, Willbur and the other notorious BS merchants who post here.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/6/2011 7:04:10 PM >

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/6/2011 7:27:28 PM

Sanity

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No I dont

And he is always lying

Kinda like, you are always trolling, and rarely (if ever) addressing the topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

but you do
he isnt lying...

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/6/2011 7:34:26 PM >

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/6/2011 11:55:59 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You are lying, but thats normal for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Have you ever bitched about your fellow moonbat leftists using thinkprogress or huffpo propaganda outlets as sources

No, and the Washington Times is consistently far more objective so STFU already

You routinely reject even mainstream sources and you want to whine because I don't trust anything run by a guy who had himself crowned God who also happens to be a convicted felon?

What are you claiming is a lie?

Moon's conviction was in 1982 for tax evasion. Moon had himself crowned god in 2004 in the Dirksen Federal Building.

As to your dismissal of mainstream sources do I evenneed to put up links for a tactic you employ with such frequency? But since you've claimed to be telling the truth here is a small sample
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2204691/mpage_1/key_mainstream/tm.htm#2205494
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3754361/mpage_4/key_ABC/tm.htm#3757879
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3720661/mpage_1/key_ABC/tm.htm#3720661
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3814642/mpage_1/key_CNN/tm.htm#3815291
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3695891/mpage_1/key_CNN/tm.htm#3696163

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/6/2011 11:58:02 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Have you ever bitched about your fellow moonbat leftists using thinkprogress or huffpo propaganda outlets as sources

No, and the Washington Times is consistently far more objective so STFU already

You routinely reject even mainstream sources and you want to whine because I don't trust anything run by a guy who had himself crowned God who also happens to be a convicted felon?

You don't like the BBC either. What is your excuse in that regard, is it because a woman crowned by the grace of some desert god is the theoretical owner of that state media establishment too?

Never ever said anything was wrong with BBC as a source. Of course you haven't actually used it as a source nor presented anything beyond rank speculation.

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/7/2011 12:09:53 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

The mujhadeen were primarily a nationalist coalition dedicated to getting rid of the Russians. After the Russians left, they splintered and fought among themselves on multiple levels, in much the same way as Afghans have always done. From this fight, the Taliban emerged as a dominant force but not even the Taliban ever controlled the entirety of Afghanistan.

I have never heard any knowledgeable one query their nationalist agenda or the fact that the mujhadeen were overwhelmingly Afghani nationals.

Then you know nothing of the facts. The muhajeddin leaders couldn't put together a post occupation government in large part because their leaders weren't Afghans.

Stop talking through your hat DK.

Your claim is the first and only time I have ever heard it. No one knowledgeable about Afghanistan subscribes to this view (AFAIK), not have I ever heard it articulated by any one knowledgeable about Afghani affairs. The only source you've offered - wiki - doesn't back up the claims you've made (your claims relying entirely, you advise us, on wiki as a source).

To date, the only evidence you have presented to support your claims that the mujhadeen were "to a large degree' non-Afghanis is one individual - OBL. This is pathetic.

I'd love to see some credible evidence to support your nonsensical claim that the post- Soviet Government in Afghanistan collapsed "in large part because their leaders weren't Afghans". But I doubt if I ever will - I have grave doubts that any such evidence exists. But please present such evidence as you have (if any) and let us all evaluate it on its merits.

Then you need to study the post 1992 period more carefully. The various factions of muhajeddin fell to fighting amongst themselves and the issue broke down almost precisely on the lines of which groups were Afghans and which groups were from outside the nation.

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/7/2011 1:00:01 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

tweakabelle
I'd love to see some credible evidence to support your nonsensical claim that the post- Soviet Government in Afghanistan collapsed "in large part because their leaders weren't Afghans". But I doubt if I ever will - I have grave doubts that any such evidence exists. But please present such evidence as you have (if any) and let us all evaluate it on its merits.

quote:

DomKen
Then you need to study the post 1992 period more carefully. The various factions of muhajeddin fell to fighting amongst themselves and the issue broke down almost precisely on the lines of which groups were Afghans and which groups were from outside the nation.

This is the extent of your supporting evidence? It's just more unsupported opinion, un-informed or ill-informed.

Your claim is only correct in as much as most of the foreigners were aligned with the Taliban side. But the divisions were not about Afghani vs foreigner as you are claiming. There were historical ethnic religious political regional criminal and personal factors at stake.

Your claim is just another BS unsupported claim. You don't have any evidence to support it do you? Not a shred of it. Not an iota. Do you dream this stuff up? Whatever you're on can I have 50 please?

There's no point in continuing this - any one interested has more than enough info now to form their own conclusions on this matter.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/7/2011 1:15:15 AM >

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RE: Afghanistan in the 80's vs Libya now - 9/7/2011 7:59:55 AM

FirstQuaker

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Well the situation in Afghanistan was a bit more complex then has been represented.

After the Marxist Leninist clique took power via coup, they did a lot of things not pleasing to the Islamic right wing, and also signed a military assistance treaty with the Soviets, as well as becoming a Soviet Cold War client state.

But in short, the revolt in Afghanistan was generally of the right wing elements of the various cultures in the place. It is starting to appear as the case in Libya.

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