RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (Full Version)

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Aylee -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/8/2011 9:28:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

Perry has already killed at least one inocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. What kind of blood thirsty maniac could possibly be proud of that fact?


How do you figure that Perry was reponsible?

He has the constitutional power than to grant one 30-day stay. The governor does appoint the members of the Pardons & Paroles Board, but those appointments are subject to senate confirmation, and the governor can not interfere in the Board's decisions, much less overturn the Board's decisions.





blnymph -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 5:12:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

death penalty is barbarism


And murder isnt?


both are ... but you cannot "cure" the one with the other

death penalty is simply murder legalized ...




thompsonx -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 6:21:07 AM)

The moderator asked Rick Perry if he had trouble sleeping at night, wondering if any of the 234 executions in the State of Texas might have been an innocent person. Perry gave a great answer, but his best line was this one:

If you come into our state and you kill one of our children, you kill a police officer, you’re involved with another crime and you kill one of our citizens, you will face the ultimate justice in the State of Texas. And that is you will be executed.

And the crowd loved it:

I find it interesting that mr. perry was applauded for not answering the question.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 7:19:36 AM)

FR

No, it wont become a Federal issue, and I agree with his position.




Fightdirecto -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 7:43:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Perry has already killed at least one inocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. What kind of blood thirsty maniac could possibly be proud of that fact?

How do you figure that Perry was reponsible?
He has the constitutional power than to grant one 30-day stay. The governor does appoint the members of the Pardons & Paroles Board, but those appointments are subject to senate confirmation, and the governor can not interfere in the Board's decisions, much less overturn the Board's decisions.

He also has the power, under his state's Constitution, to grant pardons to innocent people who were wrongly convicted, such as Mr. Willingham, but that would require moral courage - which Perry apparently lacks.




DomKen -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 9:22:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Governor Perry probably has no problem with the death penalty in his state because he spends much of his private time (when not with oilmen) with Christian Reconstructionists/Dominionists who believe strongly in righteousness of the death penalty - not just for murder or rape but also for children who disobey their parents, men & women who commit adultery, women who get abortions and the doctors that perform them, people who sell or possess pornography, and anyone who violates the Ten Commandments.

Whether Governor Perry personally believes this or not, their influence (and their financial support for his Presidential campaign) makes it easy for him to support the death penalty - whether the person is actually guilty of the crime alleged or not.


That is not only a stretch but the notion or fact that you believe certain religious Perry supporters are for the death penalty in cases where "children who disobey their parents, men & women who commit adultery, women who get abortions and the doctors that perform them, people who sell or possess pornography, and anyone who violates the Ten Commandments" is whacked out. There is a whole lot of far out stuff posted on this board but that one is way up there.


Wil their own words convince you?
http://reason.com/archives/1998/11/01/invitation-to-a-stoning




DomKen -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 9:24:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

This is about the ONLY thing I agree with Perry on. I live in Houston and watching the local news is like watching a horror movie. Pregnant mother killed in car jacking, convicted murderer shouts at mother who's daughter he raped and killed "shut the fuck up, i don't care what you think, your daughter was a piece of shit", officers killed in the line of duty, missing children, body found in vacant lot. EVERY DAY.

Yes, it's messed up when innocents are convicted and executed. But the end didn't kill them, the investigators and the judicial system did.

And no, i'm not religious.

Will you volunteer the person you love most to be the next innocent person Texas executes? If not then you need to rethink your position.




DomKen -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 9:26:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

Perry has already killed at least one inocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. What kind of blood thirsty maniac could possibly be proud of that fact?


How do you figure that Perry was reponsible?

He has the constitutional power than to grant one 30-day stay. The governor does appoint the members of the Pardons & Paroles Board, but those appointments are subject to senate confirmation, and the governor can not interfere in the Board's decisions, much less overturn the Board's decisions.



You're really arguing that if the Governor issued the stay and publicly stated his knowledge that Willingham was innocent the Board wouldn't have taken action?




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 6:07:52 PM)

quote:


If I kill someone out of revenge then I am guilty of murder.

Yet we sanction executions by the state for revenge by calling it justice.
This




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 6:53:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Perry has already killed at least one inocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. What kind of blood thirsty maniac could possibly be proud of that fact?

How do you figure that Perry was reponsible?
He has the constitutional power than to grant one 30-day stay. The governor does appoint the members of the Pardons & Paroles Board, but those appointments are subject to senate confirmation, and the governor can not interfere in the Board's decisions, much less overturn the Board's decisions.

He also has the power, under his state's Constitution, to grant pardons to innocent people who were wrongly convicted, such as Mr. Willingham, but that would require moral courage - which Perry apparently lacks.



You probably think Ruben Carter and Mumia Abu-Jamal were innocent too.




DomKen -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 8:07:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Perry has already killed at least one inocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. What kind of blood thirsty maniac could possibly be proud of that fact?

How do you figure that Perry was reponsible?
He has the constitutional power than to grant one 30-day stay. The governor does appoint the members of the Pardons & Paroles Board, but those appointments are subject to senate confirmation, and the governor can not interfere in the Board's decisions, much less overturn the Board's decisions.

He also has the power, under his state's Constitution, to grant pardons to innocent people who were wrongly convicted, such as Mr. Willingham, but that would require moral courage - which Perry apparently lacks.



You probably think Ruben Carter and Mumia Abu-Jamal were innocent too.

Are you denying that Willingham was innocent?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 8:25:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Perry has already killed at least one inocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. What kind of blood thirsty maniac could possibly be proud of that fact?

How do you figure that Perry was reponsible?
He has the constitutional power than to grant one 30-day stay. The governor does appoint the members of the Pardons & Paroles Board, but those appointments are subject to senate confirmation, and the governor can not interfere in the Board's decisions, much less overturn the Board's decisions.

He also has the power, under his state's Constitution, to grant pardons to innocent people who were wrongly convicted, such as Mr. Willingham, but that would require moral courage - which Perry apparently lacks.



You probably think Ruben Carter and Mumia Abu-Jamal were innocent too.

Are you denying that Willingham was innocent?


I dont know any better than you do, no matter how much you want to cut and paste. I do know he was convicted, supposedly confessed on at least one occasion and lost his appeals. I do know that if Perry thought there was the slightest chance he was innocent he would have allowed time for further investigation.




Kirata -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 8:37:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

If I kill someone out of revenge then I am guilty of murder.

Yet we sanction executions by the state for revenge by calling it justice.

Revenge basically means the act of inflicting punishment in return for an injury, but it carries the unsavory connotation of doing so in a resentful or vindictive spirit. Justice, too, includes the administration of punishment for wrongdoing, but without the connotation of vindictiveness. The law has no emotions. To label the administration of justice an act of revenge commits a category error.

Metaphorically, sure, knock your socks off. Everybody likes a rousing appeal to emotion. But as an argument it's a logical fallacy.

Furthermore, I have to wonder whether you think criminals have any fucking responsibility whatsoever. I mean, if you go out and commit a capital crime, for which the penalty is death, it's not as if the state just woke up one morning with nothing to do and decided to kill you. You're the one who decided to get his ass executed. I'm quite sure the rest of us would all have been much happier if you hadn't.

K.




anniezz338 -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 8:40:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

This is about the ONLY thing I agree with Perry on. I live in Houston and watching the local news is like watching a horror movie. Pregnant mother killed in car jacking, convicted murderer shouts at mother who's daughter he raped and killed "shut the fuck up, i don't care what you think, your daughter was a piece of shit", officers killed in the line of duty, missing children, body found in vacant lot. EVERY DAY.

Yes, it's messed up when innocents are convicted and executed. But the end didn't kill them, the investigators and the judicial system did.

And no, i'm not religious.

Will you volunteer the person you love most to be the next innocent person Texas executes? If not then you need to rethink your position.


And what would you suggest be done with the ones who are not innocent? The ones that still have a voice but their victims do not?




TheHeretic -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 10:23:54 PM)

There are some crimes that demand the ultimate penalty be imposed.  To deny that to the victims, and to society, is cowardice.




tazzygirl -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 10:41:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

death penalty is barbarism


And murder isnt?


both are ... but you cannot "cure" the one with the other

death penalty is simply murder legalized ...


You cant cure murder by "murdering" a murderer? Kill a murderer and who else is he/she going to murder? No one. As someone else mentioned its not like they woke up one day, committed a murder, then found out the penalty was death. What you are advocating is having criminals not take responsibility for their actions. Death is a known result of committing certain crimes. The fact that there are different charges for different murders should tell you more than enough.




Endivius -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/9/2011 11:49:01 PM)

I just wanted to jump in real quick and enlighten a few of you lazy twits who like to jump to bold conclusions instead of taking ten minutes out of your life to shed some of your idiocy and find out the truth.

Based on the UCR, the BJS, and DPIC the following statistics have been gathered since 1976, and have maintained a linear pattern with a +/- of 3% of all reported crimes and executions based on those crimes in the united states.


Races of defendants executed in the U.S. since 1976:

Black 35%
White 56%
Latino 7%
Other 2%


I guess caucasians should get up in arms and start bitching about how "the man" is racist and unjust. Oh wait, maybe you are just all full of shit. Over 50% more caucasians are executed every year than any other race in this country, and those numbers have stayed constant since they began keeping records in 1976. How about that.

Races of victims of executed inmates since 1976:

Black 15%
White 77%
Latino 6%
Other 3%

Oh man, look at those numbers, I could go on about this, but the staggering gap pretty much sums it up.


Races of Defendants executed for interracial capital crimes since 1976:
Black 1358 41.77%
White 1420 43.68%
Latino 394 12.12%
Other 79 2.3%


Race of the VICTIM played more in the role of death pentalty verdicts than race of the acused in over 82% of the cases. So no more hanging on the old, "If he was white, he'd get away with it" bullshit.

As it happens campers, California has more people on death row than any other state, a staggering 721 and guess what, it happens to be equally white and black on death row. Exactly 259. California has almost twice as many inmates on death row as the next state down on the list, Florida with 398 wich has 216 white on death row, and 144 black on death row. And then there's Texas with 126 blacks and 97 whites. Interestingly and not surprisingly, Texas has the second highest Latino population on death row with 94 behind only California's 167.

It also happens, that the appeals process in California is four times more congested than Texas and leads to half as many aquittals.

Now lets look at race by victimology, don't want any of you fuckwads jumping on a train of thought without some actual information to help you get there, since google is apparently fucking broken for you :

Homicide Type by Race, 1976-2005
Victims Offenders
White Black Other White Black Other
All homicides 50.9% 46.9% 2.1% 45.8% 52.2% 2.0%

Victim/offender relationship
Intimate 56.6% 41.2% 2.2% 54.4% 43.4% 2.2%
Family 60.7% 36.9% 2.4% 59.2% 38.5% 2.3%
Infanticide 55.9% 41.6% 2.5% 55.4% 42.1% 2.5%
Eldercide 69.2% 29.1% 1.6% 54.5% 43.8% 1.6%
Circumstances
Felony murder 54.7% 42.7% 2.6% 39.1% 59.3% 1.6%
Sex related 66.9% 30.5% 2.5% 54.7% 43.4% 1.9%
Drug related 37.4% 61.6% .9% 33.9% 65.0% 1.1%
Gang related 57.5% 39.0% 3.5% 54.3% 41.2% 4.4%
Argument 48.6% 49.3% 2.1% 46.8% 51.1% 2.2%
Workplace 84.6% 12.2% 3.2% 70.5% 26.7% 2.8%
Weapon
Gun homicide 47.2% 50.9% 1.9% 41.9% 56.4% 1.7%
Arson 58.9% 38.1% 2.9% 55.7% 42.0% 2.3%
Poison 80.6% 16.9% 2.5% 79.8% 18.4% 1.8%
Multiple victims
or offenders
Multiple victims 63.4% 33.2% 3.3% 55.7% 40.8% 3.5%
Multiple offenders 54.8% 42.5% 2.7% 44.6% 53.0% 2.4%


how about that, almost neck and neck accross the board with +/- of 3%. Fucking scary how close the numbers are, with the exception of poison and workplace related murders being overwhelmingly white related murder on white victims.

Here's another gem for you since apparently, painting sweeping generalizations about race, crime, and the death penalty seems to be more popular than spending five fucking minutes reading :

From 1976 to 2005 --

86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks

Feel free to paint sweeping generalizations, don't expect anyone to take you seriously though.


Now if you want to debate the death penalty on it's morality feel free. Keep Race out of it, you won't look like such a jackass.


Edit, typo.




M4S73R -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/10/2011 12:21:01 AM)

I support death penalty all the way. However i do believe that they should be televised.  Right now its this hidden thing and it dont mean much. Should be more of a deterrent aka fear of death. And the whole barbarism thing, really? Really? You want to see some barbarism have a look at south africa.

Endivicus i liked your post, i guess my question would be how many murders happen in TX vs number of deaths. I would wager that is a large gap.






Endivius -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/10/2011 12:31:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

I support death penalty all the way. However i do believe that they should be televised.  Right now its this hidden thing and it dont mean much. Should be more of a deterrent aka fear of death. And the whole barbarism thing, really? Really? You want to see some barbarism have a look at south africa.

Endivicus i liked your post, i guess my question would be how many murders happen in TX vs number of deaths. I would wager that is a large gap.





Google it. Class is dismissed for the day.




blnymph -> RE: Perry on the death penalty cracked me up, how do you feel? (9/10/2011 12:40:25 AM)

how comes the US have far higher murder rates than most other countries?

seem abolishing death penalty had a better deterrent effect than executions ...

and if one looks for the effect of public executions to compare ... have a look at public executions in China and Iran








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