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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 8:40:10 PM   
erieangel


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I liked the speech. But then, I like most of Obama's speeches. He gives excellent speeches. That said, speech-making is just the only thing Obama does exceptionally well. There are three avenues of economics--people, businesses and the government. People are not doing anything positive for the economy because they don't have the money to create demand; businesses (especially big corp.) is sitting on over $2 trillion and aren't investing it because there is no demand for their goods or services. At times like these, it is the responsibility of the government to step forward and create a demand by putting people to work. I do agree with granting tax cuts to businesses that employ American workers. But a larger tax cut to businesses who employ the long-term unemployed, I think will turn out to be a gimmick, but one that has a decent goal because many companies that are hiring right now, are only looking at applicants who are attempting not to find work, but to change jobs.

I would have much rather have seen a speech in which Obama outlined a plan to spend $1 billion-$2 billion directly to putting people to work. Not some kind of "make work" but in private sector jobs paying small, but decent salaries to the currently unemployed. A plan that says the government will pay a portion of new hires' salaries of say $20,000---in this way, with the labor security actively working to find the jobs within the private sector, millions of people could be put to work. And in this way, when the plan ran out of funds, most of those people would keep their jobs because demand for goods and services will be high again. I earn just above this amount and I live relatively well. I also don't want my payroll tax cut to be extended and increased. That is just obscene and plays right into the republican plan to dismantle social security.

(in reply to ClassIsInSession)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 8:55:08 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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Not only that, but the payroll tax cut that he implemented before wasn't a cut, it was a loan..because I had to pay it all back the next year on my taxes..and it was significant. A real slap in the face actually.

I don't trust the man.

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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:02:59 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassIsInSession

Not only that, but the payroll tax cut that he implemented before wasn't a cut, it was a loan..because I had to pay it all back the next year on my taxes..and it was significant. A real slap in the face actually.

I don't trust the man.



And what payroll tax cut was that?? I am currently getting a payroll tax cut. This year is the first year of any payroll tax cut passed by Obama. All other tax cuts had been passed by Bush and set to expire at the end of last year, as the current payroll tax cuts are due to expire at the end of this year. So I don't see where you claim you had to "pay it all back".

(in reply to ClassIsInSession)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:07:26 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY



"You must pass this bill NOW!"


"Then I'll let you read it."



Firm



Just out of curiosity, don't you two live together?

So is there some reason you need to message each other on here?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:12:27 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Just out of curiosity, don't you two live together?

So is there some reason you need to message each other on here?




It's been a long time since you were in a relationship, huh, RML?  Get with the 21st Century.  My wife and I will share a joke on Facebook, when she's 10 feet away.  Once, when we had company, I even received a text that she needed toilet paper.

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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:15:00 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I'm very surprised to see no threads here discussing the contents of Obama's speech tonight... merely a single thread asking if it should be passed.  I would think this would be a very hot topic amongst everyone here.

I'm afraid my opinion won't be well received by the left leaning posters, and I suspect they will consider it to be nothing but right-wing negativism, however as the first to start a thread asking for opinions, I should lead by example.

My "cliff notes"  version of the speech would be:

I'm going to put forth a bill that Congress needs to pass right away.  If Congress passes this bill, the government is going to do some unspecified things to create jobs.  We'll focus on infrastructure that needs building, and schools that need repairing.  We'll offer some tax credits to businesses that hire the long-term unemployed.  Congress needs to work together to pass this bill.  This bill will be paid for, once Congress figures out how to pay for it.  Congress needs to be prepared to restructure Medicare and Social Security... they need to be willing to tax the rich.  Congress needs to do the job it was hired to do and stop worrying about the upcoming election.  Pass this bill.

Overall, I was pretty disappointed in Obama's speech.   It was a motivating speech, expertly delivered, but within minutes of him beginning, I was wanting details.  What are the plans?  How will this be paid for? 

By the end of the speech, those questions still remained.  I honestly don't think I heard anything new.

It isn't that I don't think he may have some good ideas, but considering the American people have been waiting with baited breath for this plan for some time now, it was a real let down.  That, and we didn't really get a good idea of just what those ideas were.

I'm also very skeptical that anything will be able to be accomplished that will really help anyone in the short term.  To me this felt like typcial political "we'll get around to talking about it", and maybe months from now something will happen.

All in all, I felt this was a campaign speech.  Lots of promises of hope and change, with a bit of finagling so that Republicans will look like the bad guy in the end.

What say you?



You were wanting details????

How many details do you need?

He has adopted many Republican ideas, but that of course will not satisfy those who choose to oppose him no matter what he does.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:17:33 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

... I thought it was a political masterpiece....it places the obstructionists in the Republican party squarely in a box.Up till now the strategy has been to place the onus for this failing economy on President Obama,fair enough...now he places before Congress his jobs bill....the right has one of two choices,neither one of them very appealing to the Republican Party....block the bill and by doing so they must assume some responsibility for the staggering unemployment numbers...or pass the bill and declare that Obama now owns lock stock and barrel the American job market...of course should the bill reap positive results this could blow up in 2012 as far as Repulican hopes for taking back the Oval Office.
Neither move can be very appealing for the right..how do they run on the failing economy after blocking this bill...and if in passing this bill the economy and the jobs numbers improve.....Obama still wins.


I don't disagree with you, at all, Mike.  In fact, this is probably the number one problem I have with this speech.

It was a POLITICAL move.  Forget that over 9% of Americans are unemployed... forget that there are serious economic problems facing the country... let's play political gotchas, instead.

Pathetic.  Great way for a President to handle a national crisis. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Let me see if I understand all of this carping ,what you folks are suggesting is that he should send the House the proposed bill...give them some time to read it and than...and only than appear before them and address the House and the American people?
Sounds ass backwards to me.


Ummm.... no.  What would have been nice would have been him actually outlining his plan during his speech.  Leave the cheerleading until after he'd laid out what it is he wants us to buy into. 

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:17:38 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Is it your contention that he does not have a bill to submit to congress at this time ?
Are you suggesting he just stood up in front of Congress and the American people and lied to us all ?
Are you really that stupid?


He kept saying that it was imperative to pass this bill. That it is a time sensitive issue. As it stands RIGHT NOW, there is no bill in front of the house or Senate to pass.

We do not know what will be in it and we do not know how much it will cost. Parts of it are being left up to a committee that he has no control or vote over.

Yet, you are maintaining that it will be the Republicans' fault if this bill does not pass. Completely ignoring the fact that the Republicans do not hold a majority in the Senate.

So, all that being said, Mr. Obama should have been saying, "Pass this speech" as that is all the congress has to go off of, rather than "Pass this bill."

This is not the first time that Congress has been chided for not passing what is not in front of them.

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(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:19:15 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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There were things I liked about it, politically and practically, and there were some things that just pissed me off.
As a practical matter, in terms of job creation, I am a small business owner, there are 5 of us, 3 income producers and 2 staff. We will take the tax cut, but it won't cause us to hire anyone. We have actually prospered the last 4 years, but we are starting to see storms on our horizon. We recently scaled back the size of our offices, we have reduced staff (used to have three staff people). We have contracted to a sustainable size, and we aren't hiring anyone, I don't care what the size of the tax cut is. I think most small businesses are in the same boat.
I was more favorably impressed by the commitment to education, although, very vague in practicalities. I heard a lecture at a business event, and the economist said that higher education will end unemployment. Nice thought, but state college tuition went up 17% this year. People can't afford to commit to college knowing tuition is going to skyrocket. So, if Obama can find a way to pay for it, great.
I also liked the tax credit for hing vets, just because it is the right thing to do. Still won't make me hire anyone, though.
The payroll tax cut sounds great, but it will just hasten the demise of social security. I have always heard people my age say we would never get a dime of social security, but I never quite believed them. Now I do. Sucks, because I have paid in for 36 years.
The whole reliance on infrastructure projects to boost the economy is bullshit. It is too fucking late. That is what they should have done with either the first or second stimulus packages instead of squandering the money. It takes far to long to get these projectsnoff the ground. The Columbia river crossing near Portland was supposed to be one of those shovel ready projects. It has been years of debate, they have spent 25 million for consultants, and the basics haven't even been agreed on, like how to pay for the goddamn thing. If that is where the "summer jobs" are supposed to come from, we are all screwed.

I was similarly dismayed by the tax credit for hiring the long term unemployed. That doesn't create jobs, it just creates competition. That is just pandering on Obama's part. Realistically, though, the unemployment benefits have to be extended. We can't have people living on the streets. My former executive friends who are part of the long term unemployed don't need more education. We all need to suck it up and realize we are going to be supporting the "99"sweepers, although now it has been for more than 99 weeks, forever. They have somehow become a protected class.

All in all, I think our economy is destroyed beyond repair, at least in terms of returning to the way it was 5 or certainly 10 years ago. Overall, I didn't find this speech reassuring, although I will keep an open mind until the actual bill or bills are published. In many ways, I thought it was very effective as a campaign speech though. Nothing super quotable. It is pretty bad when you have to quote Kennedy as the rhetorical highpoint of your speech.

Forgive my lack of paragraphs, my iPad is kind of tricky.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 9/8/2011 9:21:24 PM >


_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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(in reply to erieangel)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:21:28 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Just out of curiosity, don't you two live together?

So is there some reason you need to message each other on here?




It's been a long time since you were in a relationship, huh, RML?  Get with the 21st Century.  My wife and I will share a joke on Facebook, when she's 10 feet away.  Once, when we had company, I even received a text that she needed toilet paper.


Richie, I have more girls all over me than you could ever dream about.

Right now I'm dating a cute 21 year old.

So spare me your bullshit.

But explain to me why the fuck you would need to text each other when, as you say, you are ten feet away?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:27:58 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Richie, I have more girls all over me than you could ever dream about.

Right now I'm dating a cute 21 year old.

So spare me your bullshit.

But explain to me why the fuck you would need to text each other when, as you say, you are ten feet away?

Imaginary girlfriends don't count.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:31:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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~FR

Its interesting that people are "for" or "against" something they have no knowledge about.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:34:07 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

We do not know what will be in it and we do not know how much it will cost. Parts of it are being left up to a committee that he has no control or vote over.



Oh for Christ sake.

Do you ever bother to read the posts on the threads you post on?

Let me help you out, courtesy of Fargle:


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/08/fact-sheet-american-jobs-act

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:37:38 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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Just last year, we got a deduction, may paycheck got slightly larger, and when I say slightly it was like $25 a paycheck bigger. At the end of the year I got a tax bill of $600, and I made exactly the same wages as the year before. That's what I'm talking about.

(in reply to erieangel)
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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:37:50 PM   
cloudboy


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The economy is out of balance. When the Rich control the vast majority of the wealth and the middle class is squeezed by high housing, health care, and education costs --- the economy has nowhere to look for demand.

Tax cuts for the wealthy (the Bush doctrine) compromises government (huge deficits) and fail to create jobs (the wealthy take their money and speculate with it in the stock market.) Businesses, in the global economy, might spend their extra capital on investments abroad.

Politically, the Republicans have destroyed the keynesian model of economics with their banana republic policies (deficit spending, huge defense outlays, tax breaks to the wealthy) neutering typical Democratic responses to recession. (There's no money to spend, and 1 Trillion's gone in the botched wars.) Republican answers to recession are no longer valid for the reason's stated in paragraph II, but their playbook remains 100% unchanged.

A payroll tax cut helps the middle class and could help spark demand, but it will piss Republicans off, b/c it steals their language (tax cuts) while not really helping their main constituent (big business and the super wealthy.) I imagine Republicans will croon about the deficit in regards to a payroll tax cut.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/8/2011 9:40:30 PM >

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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:39:49 PM   
ArizonaBossMan


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More of the same! Dear leader = man/child genius! Yay!

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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:40:51 PM   
ClassIsInSession


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And to set you straight on that, here from his fact sheet right on Whitehouse.gov

4. Tax Relief for Every American Worker and Family

Cutting payroll taxes in half for 160 million workers next year: The President’s plan will expand the payroll tax cut passed last year to cut workers payroll taxes in half in 2012 – providing a $1,500 tax cut to the typical American family, without negatively impacting the Social Security Trust Fund.

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RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:41:18 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Richie, I have more girls all over me than you could ever dream about.

Right now I'm dating a cute 21 year old.

So spare me your bullshit.

But explain to me why the fuck you would need to text each other when, as you say, you are ten feet away?

Imaginary girlfriends don't count.

Firm





Jealous Firm?

Don't worry, I'll bring her to your Vegas party and you can meet her in person.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:45:32 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline
It also pissed me off that he refused to address the economic affects of the wars. It is like they aren't even happening.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Opinions on President Obama's Jobs Speech... - 9/8/2011 9:46:25 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

More of the same! Dear leader = man/child genius! Yay!


And more of the same boring nonsense from you Wyatt Earp.

(in reply to ArizonaBossMan)
Profile   Post #: 40
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