RE: Prenups (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 2:45:20 AM)

So, much as I said way back at the beginning of the thread, they can be set aside if the judge deems it appropriate to do so.....



tazzygirl -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 2:48:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Actually, Washington has something similar in that a disinherited spouse can make a claim for the medical home, regardless of title and in spite of a will


I would assume it keeps the abilty of one spouse from hurting another. As LL said.. not all wills are upheld.... thankfully.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 2:50:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Sigh. Why does every thread on here eventually turn into a discussion about either the fearsome foursome or Kevin?


Seriously.



seriously times two.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 3:00:16 AM)

Times three. [:)]



SuzeCheri -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 3:10:46 AM)

I have assets I inherited, yet I am basically opposed to pre-nuptial agreements. I agree with Heather that when I marry I will bring to the marriage everything I own.

I don't have any serious assets at the moment, but I will be inheriting a substantial amount eventually, and I approve of them if you have a real reason for wanting certain assets set aside, such as to protect the inheritances of children from a prior marriage. But I am opposed to them if they are used just to limit what a spouse would get in a divorce.



tazzygirl -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 3:20:46 AM)

I understand both of your points. Prenups can limit, they can also prevent abuse. Which is why, in the states, both parties have to have their own lawyer when drawing one up.



LaTigresse -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 6:55:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: projectneedles

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Well I would agree with that except that I have been told I am narrow minded, pig headed, too young to understand, selfish, self centered, ignorant, hypocritical, purposely obtuse, and a few other things for not seeing things the way others do, so it would seem that there are a few people who are indeed quite interested in having me change my opinion.



Ya know, I can't wait for your poly relationship to disolved and everything around you to turn to shit and watch you backpeddle your ignorance a bit and grow some. You are narrow minded, childish, self centered, and entirely too fucking stupid to fucking understand anything. If I could have a gag it would be to shut you the fuck up so maybe you'd learn to listen to others instead of attack them.

However since its still very likely you, arpig and the other 3 fuckwats are all just part of arpigs multiple personality disorder, its kind of impossible to figments in one very tiresome and pathetic little mans imagination to disolve in such a way I guess Ill just have to keep dreaming.


What a pathetic and immature post!

Granted, the way Arp posts most of the time, especially when the girls are involved in a debate, is pretty fucking pathetic. But, he has made no secret of the fact of his mental health and I do take that into consideration. I applaud anyone's dedication to friends, regardless of how irrational or misguided. In all honesty, if he was MY friend and behaving that way on MY behalf, we would be having a chat and I would be STRONGLY requesting the white knight routine cease and desist. But it's not my problem and if the girls do not mind that his behaviour degrades their points of view and validity of debate, then I can certainly ignore his posts that are of that vein. It is what I do with quite a few posters that have nothing worthwhile to contribute most of the time.

Heather I said what I did about your words on this thread because, in the time you've been here, I have come to see you as extremely mature beyond your years and very intelligent. Your debate style on this particular thread has been contrary to what I have come to expect of you. It's been more like trying to debate something with Iccy, a waste of time. My sincere apologies. It will not happen again.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 7:04:12 AM)

Been married once and divorced now for two years. No prenup. We had nothing when we married.
Even if we had, there still would have been no prenup.
I walked away with probably less than 20% of the marital assets. And as a result, we are still great friends and parents.
If I ever marry again I would never sign a prenup.
I know myself. I would never destroy the man I marry.
I would never even think to lay claim to things he had prior to me. And yes, that includes a house and high priced things like that.
Greed leads to hatred. I have no greed.



AneNoz -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 7:16:23 AM)

This question is one mostly hypothetical to myself as it is unlikely in the extreme that I would marry, but if I were to do so, I would not make such an agreement. I would not marry such a one with whom such a thing would be required. If one loves another, one will not do harm to that one, this is the nature of love.

Be at peace
Aneka



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 7:55:52 AM)

That's in the case of a will, not a prenuptial. So no. Although I suppose a judge can always ignore a prenuptial too. That is why god invented appeals courts and that is where the case would go it that happened.
Arpig, thanks for your opinion and all, but like I implied earlier, who cares what someone who has made it clear they have no assets to protect thinks about the topic? Someone in your shoes should probably pray that their potential spouse doesn't ask for a prenuptial. The only reason I mention that is because the way this discussion seems to have largely broken down is that, those with nothing to protect think prenups are unnecessary and insulting. Those who have been around the block and have built or inherited some things of value, think they are important. Coincidence? Probably not.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

So, much as I said way back at the beginning of the thread, they can be set aside if the judge deems it appropriate to do so.....



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 8:05:29 AM)

quote:

The only reason I mention that is because the way this discussion seems to have largely broken down is that, those with nothing to protect think prenups are unnecessary and insulting. Those who have been around the block and have built or inherited some things of value, think they are important.
Really?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3861275
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3861446
and
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3861457

I guess they are all lying then?



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 8:13:00 AM)


My parents were happily married for 65 years. I married when I was 27 and was married for 20 years, without a prenuptial, although we did do a community property agreement. I was pretty lucky in that my ex was and is an honorable man and I am perfectly capable of making a living. However, I would never marry again without a prenuptial.
As for what young people just starting out might want to protect, for one thing, the earning potential of a college or professional degree. The value of say, a medical degree, is an intangible asset, but the other spouse has an interest in it, and a court can require equalizing payments to make up for it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I wonder how the reality of a nasty parental divorce affects how they deal with their own marriages later on. And I wonder if parents with happy marriages that last give their grown kids a different outlook and perhaps don’t consider the possibility of their own marriage failing.



It would be an interesting question, and definately not a statistic I ever paid attention to. I can say that my parents were happily married until my father's death, and if I were to ever get married again, I would consider a pre-nup and I have several friends who also had parents who were happily married that would as well. Of course, we are older and have been married once before.

I think for the standard young people who get married and haven't aquire anything, they don't consider a pre-nup. Among first marriages, pre-nups are still among those who have "stuff" and the wealthy. After all, when you don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, what is there to protect?



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 8:13:24 AM)

Shhh, apologize for what? It's all good.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 8:28:48 AM)

One of those links took me to aneznoz, who didn't say what he or she has in terms of assets. One went to Aileen, who said she didn't have much. One went to suzi/Cheri, where one of them ( I can never keep track) expressed an opposition, although she apparently has assets, and the other one said that they are OK in certain circumstances. I also said that is the way it has largely broken down, which acknowledges some exceptions.
I wasn't going to bring this up, since I am sure it will lead to much stomping of feet, but I also take what an 18 year old has to say on the subject with a grain of salt. I am assuming you don't have children and their future to worry about. I am also assuming you have not spent the last 20 years building up a business that you want to keep. I think you may have valuable insight on such things as how to make a poly relationship work, and I would pay attention to your insight on that subject for example. On the subject of this thread, though? Not so much. Thanks for your opinion, though.
Heather, I am not trying to persuade you or others to get a prenuptial. I really don't give a fuck whether you do or not. It doesn't affect my life, and none of you live in my jurisdiction, so I won't benefit professionally one way or the other either. I realize others have tried to convince you that you are wrong and naive, I have not. By the same token, you won't change my mind, although I am giving your opinion the weight it is due. So don't bother with the argumentative routine. I am not going to re read every post in this thread to prove my general point to you. Let's just say the way it shook down didn't surprise me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

The only reason I mention that is because the way this discussion seems to have largely broken down is that, those with nothing to protect think prenups are unnecessary and insulting. Those who have been around the block and have built or inherited some things of value, think they are important.
Really?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3861275
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3861446
and
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3861457

I guess they are all lying then?




kalikshama -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 9:12:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

I may be wrong, but I do not believe that a pre-nup in the state I live in (Massachusetts) is legally enforcible.

Of course, Massachusetts's divorce laws are wierd anyway. For example, Massachusetts is one of the few states in the U.S. where, if you divorce and the Court orders you to pay your former wife alimony, that alimony continues until your former spouse dies, regardless of whether they re-marry. Recently a 70-year-old former judge was ordered to go back to work as a lawyer so that he could continue paying alimony to his ex-wife, who he had divorced 30 years before.

Also in Massachusetts, if a man re-marries at any time after a divorce, his former spouse has the legal right to go back into court and have her alimony re-negotiated based on the combined incomes of her former husband AND the income of his new spouse.


I'm going to have to check into this. I was awarded health insurance benefits in my divorce, but his employer canceled them at the time of his remarriage. I was out of state at the time, and chose to go with the Veteran's Administration health insurance instead of fighting it.

However, now I am back in Massachusetts and having a really hard time with the VA system - been waiting since June to get a primary doctor, which I need before I can see the specialists I need. I finally have an appointment for mid October for the primary, and who knows how long it will take to see the specialists.



tj444 -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 9:46:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet


My parents were happily married for 65 years. I married when I was 27 and was married for 20 years, without a prenuptial, although we did do a community property agreement. I was pretty lucky in that my ex was and is an honorable man and I am perfectly capable of making a living. However, I would never marry again without a prenuptial.
As for what young people just starting out might want to protect, for one thing, the earning potential of a college or professional degree. The value of say, a medical degree, is an intangible asset, but the other spouse has an interest in it, and a court can require equalizing payments to make up for it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I wonder how the reality of a nasty parental divorce affects how they deal with their own marriages later on. And I wonder if parents with happy marriages that last give their grown kids a different outlook and perhaps don’t consider the possibility of their own marriage failing.



It would be an interesting question, and definately not a statistic I ever paid attention to. I can say that my parents were happily married until my father's death, and if I were to ever get married again, I would consider a pre-nup and I have several friends who also had parents who were happily married that would as well. Of course, we are older and have been married once before.

I think for the standard young people who get married and haven't aquire anything, they don't consider a pre-nup. Among first marriages, pre-nups are still among those who have "stuff" and the wealthy. After all, when you don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, what is there to protect?


Yes, just because a young person doesnt have any assets/money now doesnt mean they dont expect to get them in the future. Some couples have very different money habits too, personally for me I like to keep my money/assets separate from my guys money/assets. I dont have a lot (not by my definition of that) but i do expect to make what i do have grow majorly, and signing a prenup/co-habitation agreement with a guy that has 10 times or 100 times what i have, i have no problem with that at all. I dont expect to rely on his money during the relationship or after anyway, thats just the way i am.

It seems that prenups started way back centuries ago and were used by European royalty... hmmmm... seemed to work and be acceptable by them. And today, signing a prenup doesnt mean one person has nothing and the other person is rich, it can and imo frequently also means rich marrying rich and signing a prenup...

I have been wondering if Ivanka and her hubby signed one, I expect so but done quietly...



tazzygirl -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 10:00:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I just find it humorous that people here will trust another with their very physical life, trust someone not to kill them...but won't with their finances lol.



Some of us have been burnt. [;)]



Arpig -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 10:13:28 AM)

quote:

Arpig, thanks for your opinion and all, but like I implied earlier, who cares what someone who has made it clear they have no assets to protect thinks about the topic?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dearie me, what to say about this except....FAIL!!!
I do have assets, family land that has been in my family for over 200 years, so it is not only valuable, and liquidatable, but it is also most assuredly an heirloom, so you can stuff your misplaced condescension up your ass.

Now, since I am not too young (being roughly the same age as you), and I have valuable assets to "protect", and I have been married before so know all about marriages failing, it would seem that none of your infantile excuses for disregarding the opinions of those who don't agree with you  are applicable to me, so I assume you will be paying close attention to my opinions on this topic from now on. Either that or admit you are you really just looking for vindication in this thread and not really interested in discussing the topic?

quote:

The only reason I mention that is because the way this discussion seems to have largely broken down is that, those with nothing to protect think prenups are unnecessary and insulting. Those who have been around the block and have built or inherited some things of value, think they are important. Coincidence? Probably not.
No, the reason you bring it up is to try insult me for having the temerity to voice an opinion counter to your own. You see, this bit of unmitigated bullshit might have flown if you hadn't preceded it by saying this:
quote:

Someone in your shoes should probably pray that their potential spouse doesn't ask for a prenuptial.
Implying that I am the one that assets would need to be protected against. Your protestations of innocence ring hollow when immediately preceded by such an obvious slur. Do try again, but next time put a little effort into it.




Aileen1968 -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 10:23:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

That's in the case of a will, not a prenuptial. So no. Although I suppose a judge can always ignore a prenuptial too. That is why god invented appeals courts and that is where the case would go it that happened.
Arpig, thanks for your opinion and all, but like I implied earlier, who cares what someone who has made it clear they have no assets to protect thinks about the topic? Someone in your shoes should probably pray that their potential spouse doesn't ask for a prenuptial. The only reason I mention that is because the way this discussion seems to have largely broken down is that, those with nothing to protect think prenups are unnecessary and insulting. Those who have been around the block and have built or inherited some things of value, think they are important. Coincidence? Probably not.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

So, much as I said way back at the beginning of the thread, they can be set aside if the judge deems it appropriate to do so.....



I didn't have assets when I got married back in 1991.
I do now. I own a home, my own business, a car, artwork, expensive camera equipment.
I still wouldn't want a prenup.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Prenups (9/26/2011 10:35:44 AM)

Gee arpig, so sorry to have insulted your pedigree. Do you justnmake this stuff up as you go along? This from the man who goes on and on about how happy he is living on 10k a year. If that was my income, i probably wouldn't get a prenuptial either.
The fact is, I did ask for people's opinions. I asked because of some comments that came up in another thread, and i am interested in hearing why people do what they do, even if i think their reasoning is retarded. Yours was, to paraphrase, why bother a judge will just overturn it. Wrong, of course, but not worth my time to respond to. However, it is your opinion and you are oh so entitled to it. Just like I am entitled to not give a fuck. I had no intention of people using this thread to try to browbeat others into trying to change their minds, I thought that was pretty rude. I also need no vindication, I already know what I am going to do. Nor is any opinion in this thread, including one as bullshit as yours, going to sway me professionally or personally, despite the fact that you are apparently Richie rich. I will go on recommending prenups to my clients. When they respond by saying that they don't believe in them, I will smile politely, change the subject, and send a follow up letter confirming we discussed it. Just to avoid any future unpleasantness for me, you know.



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