RE: Prenups (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:44:10 AM)

imo if the topic even comes up at all that means  you have doubts in yourself, your partner and your relationship.





CeriseNin -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:45:37 AM)

But it's not about trust or not trusting. It's about not putting assets on the line that I didn't earn. It's about love and commitment to my father, grandfather, and respect for every thing they worked for.



tazzygirl -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:46:00 AM)

I have doubts about many things. Relationships change, people change. 10 years down the line, you may no longer love me. Reality is, that happens.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:48:09 AM)

it IS about trust, if you believe that line exists.

if you trust someone, then there is no line.
my family used to own a good chunk of land (we've since sold it after my grandfather's death to help my grandmother with her expenses). my late M wanted to come with me and live there. i had absolutely no doubt in my mind that he loved my family, loved the land, and would do nothing to harm either of those things.

if i'd had to imagine that there was a "line" to be observed with the land my family had aquired, then that, to me, would mean i didn't trust M or my judgment of him.



littlewonder -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:49:13 AM)

I have doubts about many things in life....but never my marriage. I can't imagine thinking he's going to take off with my family pictures and heirlooms. It would mean that I think that harshly of him and is insulting to him to even think that of him.




LaTigresse -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:50:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I can see Heathers pov....

If you loved me, you wouldnt ask.

But I dont think Heather has thought of the flip side of that coin.

If you loved me, I wouldnt have to ask.... you would offer.



Exactly. And......I see all of the other aspects being ignored. In as much as it is protecting the assets, it is protecting HER.

There will always be other people involved. Having things on paper protects loved ones from dealing with extended family members trying to bully them at their weakest moments. Very much like wills and living wills.



CeriseNin -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:52:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

it IS about trust, if you believe that line exists.

if you trust someone, then there is no line.
my family used to own a good chunk of land (we've since sold it after my grandfather's death to help my grandmother with her expenses). my late M wanted to come with me and live there. i had absolutely no doubt in my mind that he loved my family, loved the land, and would do nothing to harm either of those things.

if i'd had to imagine that there was a "line" to be observed with the land my family had aquired, then that, to me, would mean i didn't trust M or my judgment of him.


Speaking of trust: my father trusts that I would never gamble with money and assets he worked for.

That is my first commitment. My family is my first loyalty. I'm not going to be disloyal to my father for any woman in this world.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:52:39 AM)

quote:

Maybe she is simply honouring a commitment she made prior to knowing you.

Would you want to be in a relationship with someone with whom you could could not trust to give her word, just because of a newer relationship?
If whatever promise she made was more important to her than marrying me, then I wouldn't marry her. I wouldn't marry somebody who did not see marrying me to be the most important thing in their life.

I wouldn't end the relationship, I just wouldn't get married.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:53:57 AM)

quote:

imo if the topic even comes up at all that means you have doubts in yourself, your partner and your relationship.
Exactly.



LaTigresse -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:56:00 AM)

And as a mother, a mother of two children I cannot say for an absolute fact I would trust with valuable family pieces(as painful as that is to acknowledge)...I would understand a prospective partner of mine taking that into consideration via a pre-nup. She may trust me without question, but my kids.......her assets should not be in question when it comes to their less that perfect decisions.

It really is a lot more complex than some people would like to pretend it is.



tazzygirl -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:57:55 AM)

When my grandmother was sick, my aunts went into her home and cleared her out.... these women were not her children. Certain items had been promised to certain people within the family.... more sentimental than anything else. Many of those items were just thrown away.

It makes a huge difference to me how someone views my feelings about certain matters.

If the man told me.. This... this is important to me... and here is the story of why. And afterwards, he told me he had promised to pass it down through the children... I would never dream of touching it... and I would sign a prenup stipulating that.

It is about love.... it is about trust... its also about his love for his family, not just his love for me. It is about my caring for him in every way... I care that he made such a commitment and would never want to do anything to end that commitment he made.

If signing a stupid piece of paper puts his mind to rest.... where is the dotted line.

If bawking at signing a piece of paper that states you wont... and you insist you wont... that you dont want it.... yet you wont sign.... yeah, I dont want you in my life either.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:58:00 AM)

quote:

But I dont think Heather has thought of the flip side of that coin.

If you loved me, I wouldnt have to ask.... you would offer.
Well you're wrong. The flip side has been pointed out repeatedly. The fact that it doesn't affect my position doesn't mean I haven't considered it, it just means it's not a telling argument.



LaTigresse -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:59:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Maybe she is simply honouring a commitment she made prior to knowing you.

Would you want to be in a relationship with someone with whom you could could not trust to give her word, just because of a newer relationship?
If whatever promise she made was more important to her than marrying me, then I wouldn't marry her. I wouldn't marry somebody who did not see marrying me to be the most important thing in their life.

I wouldn't end the relationship, I just wouldn't get married.



And that is certainly your perogative. Personally, if a prospective partner felt as you did.......considering my own morals and sense of personal responsibility......your selfish sense of importance would very likely be the end of our relationship.

I will always believe that a person giving their word, making a promise, their accepted responsibiliities are the most important aspect of their character. If they would expect me to set aside my morality and responsibilities as a sign of my love and commitment to them, I would view them as too immature and selfish for me.



barelynangel -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 10:59:45 AM)

So pretty much Heather, you are so selfish you would rather someone completely disregard their integrity, former promises IF they dare want to marry you instead of YOU making stepping up and joining them in that promise and make it a legal contract of your doing so?

I wonder about what love really means to you based on your comments because it sounds to me like your love is very conditional and demanding people you claim to love make a choice between you and their integrity.

It's ironic, if you have no intention of ever taking what they are trying to protect that you would demand they compromise their integrity instead of simply making a legal agreement that you won't take or attempt to take or control what they have promised to protect.

You claim that assets shouldn't be that important to them, but in fact you are making assets more important than them, you and their integrity by conditioning your love based on their former promises that involve assetts.

You are in fact doing what you claim they better not do.   Making assets more important than your marrying each other.

angel



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:00:15 AM)

quote:

But it's not about trust or not trusting. It's about not putting assets on the line that I didn't earn.
But it is all about trust and trusting, if you see it as putting those assets on the line, then you don't trust her not to try get them.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:01:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have doubts about many things. Relationships change, people change. 10 years down the line, you may no longer love me. Reality is, that happens.


Exactly. While it is wondrously romantic to imagine remaining as in love as the two are today, things DO happen. Love ends, hate and spite take over. I don't blame cerise one bit for wanting to protect her families assets. Because the sad fact is that relationships DO go sour, geez all we have to do is look at the stats for current divorce rates. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that a nasty divorce could be in the future. Personal assets are one thing, family heirlooms quite another.

p.s. I'll always love you Tazzy, I swear it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:02:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

But it's not about trust or not trusting. It's about not putting assets on the line that I didn't earn.
But it is all about trust and trusting, if you see it as putting those assets on the line, then you don't trust her not to try get them.


I put all I have on the line. Things I hold in trust for others, I would not.



CeriseNin -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:06:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And as a mother, a mother of two children I cannot say for an absolute fact I would trust with valuable family pieces(as painful as that is to acknowledge)...I would understand a prospective partner of mine taking that into consideration via a pre-nup. She may trust me without question, but my kids.......her assets should not be in question when it comes to their less that perfect decisions.

It really is a lot more complex than some people would like to pretend it is.

It really is. I mean, Ideally I don't ever want to ask a woman to sign a prenup, but the reality is first of all, I have a loyalty to my family. Not just its present members, but the future as well. Funny thing is, it isn't even about not trusting her, it's about keeping my commitment to my father and respect for his and prior generation's hard work. Full stop. And I wouldn't stay with a woman who expected me to disregard that commitment.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:07:14 AM)

Where did I ever say I would want anybody to break their word or compromise their integrity?

Same question goes to LaT.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:09:05 AM)

well Heather, if that previous agreement is part of their definition of their integrity, asking them to either defy it or you won't marry them is asking them to compromise or pay a consequence, i.e. you not accepting the marriage. 



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