RE: Prenups

RE: Prenups (Full Version)

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CeriseNin -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:31:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: It's difficult to get across though that it's nothing to do with trust. Not in the least. Whether or not I trust her with the assets is completely irrelevant. It is entirely 100% about you not trusting her. If you trusted her, you wouldn't feel the need to protect things from her. You would want a pre-nup because you don't trust her to not try get the assets you want to protect. OK, Heather.

CeriseNin -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:36:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: The assets don't belong to me because I didn't earn them. I share in them because my father shares with his children, but I worked for none of it. Earning them or not has no relevance to who they belong to. Suze didn't earn the money she inherited, but it belongs to her all the same.[/color] That's nothing to do with my situation. And who earned it is relevant to me.

littlewonder -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:37:15 AM)
doesn't anyone find it the least bit funny that we go on and on about trust in bdsm relationships on this forum but yet when push comes to shove lol.......

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:38:53 AM)
quote: How adorable. You are really too smart to absolutely think that anyone who does not see things the same way you do has no valid point. And you think that anybody who does not see things the same way you do has to be too young to actually know better. Any time I disagree with you, you tell me that in 20 years I will see it your way. It's tiresome and pointless, and yes, moronic. It is you who is being the "the close minded, know it all ,my way is the only kinda chickie" by insisting that I'm not allowed my opinion, that your opinion is by definition right. You dismiss me all the time because I don't bow down to your age and wisdom, maybe I don't because while you have the age, you lack the wisdom. Playing the age card is the proof of that lack of wisdom, it shows that you can't actually back up your opinions with anything better than "I'm older so I know better", which is pretty sad.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:40:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth Still no reason to have a pre-nup the will takes care of that. Imo, people need a variety of tools- prenups or co-habitation agreements, partnership agreements if owning assets jointly (even if its your spouse/partner), wills (which need to be updated regularly and when major changes occur), regularly updating the name(s) of beneficiaries on insurance policies, RRSPs/IRAs, etc (lots of people have one of their ex's still listed!!!), and creating trusts as well. I think anyone with a lot of assets should utilize trusts (in the US estate taxes can be very detrimental). People need each for various situations, imo. But that is my opinion. It doesnt matter to me if the person i come to live with has more assets than me when we meet, I want it clear that i would not be with him for what he has and he can name whoever he wants as beneficiary of policies and his will (as is his right regardless anyway lol). I also expect the reverse to be true.. Great post tj. Sadly in my case it would be putting the cart before the horse; I need to find the partner first. Do you do this professionally? Forgive me if you mentioned it; I can't be bothered to look.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:41:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: How adorable. You are really too smart to absolutely think that anyone who does not see things the same way you do has no valid point. And you think that anybody who does not see things the same way you do has to be too young to actually know better. Any time I disagree with you, you tell me that in 20 years I will see it your way. It's tiresome and pointless, and yes, moronic. It is you who is being the "the close minded, know it all ,my way is the only kinda chickie" by insisting that I'm not allowed my opinion, that your opinion is by definition right. You dismiss me all the time because I don't bow down to your age and wisdom, maybe I don't because while you have the age, you lack the wisdom. Playing the age card is the proof of that lack of wisdom, it shows that you can't actually back up your opinions with anything better than "I'm older so I know better", which is pretty sad. You see what you want to see in replies regarding many subjects. But ok, you win. I am an ageist asshole who thinks you are acting like a child stomping their foot. I am good with that.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:44:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder doesn't anyone find it the least bit funny that we go on and on about trust in bdsm relationships on this forum but yet when push comes to shove lol....... Not really. As much as we'd like to be, none of us are living in a fairy tale, people do break up and what happens with the money can affect someone for the rest of their life. A big part of me totally agrees with you and with Heather. I have a romantic's heart and want to believe that "love is all you need". Another part of me , (the one that has studied law, and has seen people end up in bad situations due to poor planning and/or misplaced trust) thinks that sometimes prenups are excellent ideas that should be used to protect both parties.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:45:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder doesn't anyone find it the least bit funny that we go on and on about trust in bdsm relationships on this forum but yet when push comes to shove lol....... Not really, no. Look at poohbear's post, nothing was specified and all the pieces that meant so much to her were taken by her sis and father. Seems a good case for a prenup/will to me. What I find funny is that people who have no problems with wills are so up in arms when the subject is a prenup.

CeriseNin -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:47:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder doesn't anyone find it the least bit funny that we go on and on about trust in bdsm relationships on this forum but yet when push comes to shove lol....... If the assets were mine, I'd never ask a woman to sign a prenup. I want to make it clear that no matter how much I trust her, the bottom line is I didn't work for any of it and I feel it would be unethical of me to give anyone access to assets that do not belong to me. My father loves his children and shares, but I'm acutely aware that he worked very, very hard for it. He - not me.

littlewonder -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:49:32 AM)
and that's where my morals, values and spirituality come into play. When we married we promised...till death do we part and we both had talked about it and that's what we both meant and that's exactly what happened. Neither of us rushed into marriage either though and we grew up together so we knew each other from the time we were 8 and 12 years old. And if I ever get remarried it won't be a rushed relationship and we will have known each other for years upon years before we get married. Imo that's the huge problem in today's society...rushrushrush and then get divorced because neither of you knew each other very well. Romantic? Not at all...realistic of not rushing into things.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:49:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather quote: How adorable. You are really too smart to absolutely think that anyone who does not see things the same way you do has no valid point. And you think that anybody who does not see things the same way you do has to be too young to actually know better. Any time I disagree with you, you tell me that in 20 years I will see it your way. It's tiresome and pointless, and yes, moronic. It is you who is being the "the close minded, know it all ,my way is the only kinda chickie" by insisting that I'm not allowed my opinion, that your opinion is by definition right. You dismiss me all the time because I don't bow down to your age and wisdom, maybe I don't because while you have the age, you lack the wisdom. Playing the age card is the proof of that lack of wisdom, it shows that you can't actually back up your opinions with anything better than "I'm older so I know better", which is pretty sad. Heather I've enjoyed your posts in this thread (except for some of the mean ones) because you reminded me of my younger, less cynical self. I'm still pretty un-cynical, but a bit more of a realist than when I was your age. People aren't smarter because they're older, but they are more experienced. And those of us who have that hard-earned experience sometimes try to share it with others to help them not to have to go through the things we went through. It's not that we're talking down to you, it's more of a "learn from my mistakes" type thing.

Arpig -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:50:44 AM)
quote: What I find funny is that people who have no problems with wills are so up in arms when the subject is a prenup. That might be because they are utterly unrelated.

tj444 -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:57:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Imo, people need a variety of tools- prenups or co-habitation agreements, partnership agreements if owning assets jointly (even if its your spouse/partner), wills (which need to be updated regularly and when major changes occur), regularly updating the name(s) of beneficiaries on insurance policies, RRSPs/IRAs, etc (lots of people have one of their ex's still listed!!!), and creating trusts as well. I think anyone with a lot of assets should utilize trusts (in the US estate taxes can be very detrimental). People need each for various situations, imo. But that is my opinion. It doesnt matter to me if the person i come to live with has more assets than me when we meet, I want it clear that i would not be with him for what he has and he can name whoever he wants as beneficiary of policies and his will (as is his right regardless anyway lol). I also expect the reverse to be true.. Great post tj. Sadly in my case it would be putting the cart before the horse; I need to find the partner first. Do you do this professionally? Forgive me if you mentioned it; I can't be bothered to look. Well, I have put much before the cart as well, however, when the time comes, I will discuss all of that with anyone I want to live with (I wont marry again, pretty set on that). No, i dont do this professionally but I have looked at various aspects for a while now and that is why I say i have been lucky in the past as I did not have prenups/agreements in place. Since looking into it tho, I see the need to protect my assets and what they grow into, I need to allocate where I want them to go (such as a charity, etc). It really is amazing to talk to a guy and hear that his will or insurance policy still names his first wife as beneficiary, and that he just never bothered/got around to changing it.. Imo, that happens a lot. Great for his first wife tho, not so great for his present one...

Arpig -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 11:59:40 AM)
quote: I would love to have this discussion with you in 20 years. I suspect your views will have changed. Well, I'm older than you and I disagree with you...what do you have to say about that? Oh yeah, you said.... quote: the folks older do have more life experiences in some things, that do make a difference and mean something. So since I'm older than you and I disagree with you, you are being a pig headed little child stomping her foot, unless you change your opinion. Either that or you're just an addle-pated old battle axe talking down to her betters in a pathetic effort to make herself feel superior.

barelynangel -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 12:01:30 PM)
Heather, Why do you believe it is about trusting YOU? Why can't it be simply about protecting something of theirs from a dissolution of the marraige? Why make it all about you? IF the marraige doesn't dissolve then you have no worries, and if it does, then you are helping them protect something they promised to protect -- why wouldn't you want to do that? I agree with you IF someone approachs you and makes it about trust OF you, then that isn't good and you probably won't mix because they are willing to marry someone they are saying they don't trust. However, not all people approach prenups in such a way, and not all prenups are about not trusting but instead its about protecting. The thing is, will you know the difference or emotionally blackmail and manipulate someone who desires to marry you into compromising their integrity in order TO marry you. Would you want to marry someone who will do that? careful your "demands and conditions" don't place you into a position of your own view of the person is compromised because they give into your demands and conditions of them to the point they are compromising their integrity (not protecting fully something they promised they would). You may not see it then, but if they are willing to compromise their promises to others for you, they may do so even to you because of your demands. angel

tj444 -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 12:07:53 PM)
what i find funny is if you discuss this with someone you are planning to marry/live with and they tell you they love you and not your money/assets, then why would they have any problem putting that representation in actual writing? I personally have no problem with me putting my representation/promise in writing, I wont live with someone unless i love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him, I dont care about his money/assets at all. I would not get offended or upset or think he didnt love me cuz he asked me for the same words in writing...

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 12:08:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: I would love to have this discussion with you in 20 years. I suspect your views will have changed. Well, I'm older than you and I disagree with you...what do you have to say about that? Oh yeah, you said.... quote: the folks older do have more life experiences in some things, that do make a difference and mean something. So since I'm older than you and I disagree with you, you are being a pig headed little child stomping her foot, unless you change your opinion. Either that or you're just an addle-pated old battle axe talking down to her betters in a pathetic effort to make herself feel superior. You are fucking hilarious lately. quote: That is beautiful in theory. If everything lasted forever, I would agree with you 100%. When I was your age, I thought that to be fact too. You are such a smart young lady. I would love to have this discussion with you in 20 years. I suspect your views will have changed. Yeah, that fucking rudeness I exhibited should be banned I tell ya. Betters. [sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 12:09:00 PM)
quote: It really is amazing to talk to a guy and hear that his will or insurance policy still names his first wife as beneficiary, and that he just never bothered/got around to changing it.. Imo, that happens a lot. Great for his first wife tho, not so great for his present one... That TO ME more than anything else tells me a lot about him and nothing good. I can understand take a bit of time to get it done. How long had it been since the divorce?

tj444 -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 12:15:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: It really is amazing to talk to a guy and hear that his will or insurance policy still names his first wife as beneficiary, and that he just never bothered/got around to changing it.. Imo, that happens a lot. Great for his first wife tho, not so great for his present one... That TO ME more than anything else tells me a lot about him and nothing good. I can understand take a bit of time to get it done. How long had it been since the divorce? one guy I talked to, it was a couple of wives ago.. lol Don't even ask me how i got on the topic with any of these guys, probably started out talking about marriage and how often things change once that happens and to divorce.. I am sure there are lots of articles on the subject and how screwed the new wifey and kids were as a result (depending on the laws of where they lived).

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Prenups (9/25/2011 12:17:37 PM)
Good post angel. If I'm not mistaken you work for lawyers, right. Have they ever dealt with prenups? I ask because I'm curious about the percentage of people who do it to protect family heirlooms vs personal stuff.

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