RE: Elizabeth Warren quote

RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (Full Version)

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EternalHoH -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 1:41:44 PM)
Responding to that response: quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Between fuel taxes, license fees, tolls and various taxes on transportation related activities, the roads budget is smaller than the total tax take. Bullshit. If that were so, the "aging infrastructure" problem would be non-existent. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee No, you did not educate them. You babysat them for 12 years. Then I hired them, taught them how to be responsible and show up for work, taught them how to communicate in clear sentences, taught them that there are rights and wrongs and (unlike with your schools) wrongs have consequences in the workplace. Then paid for extended education for my employees so they could continue to improve themselves and better add value to what we do around here. People get an education not to be a worker-bee drone for a corporation, but for their own advantages that extend beyond their job (and yes, that involves areas where you do NOT have control of their schedule). Any business owner who thinks it is the role of public education in America to only create an army of people who are smart enough to run his machines or do his paperwork is in for a rude fucking awakening. These business owners may be paying for training in industry specific skill sets, but its not the job of government to educate the workforce only to his businesses needs. That is the business owner's job. The education of his employees in other areas not specific to his business is happening, and he is benefiting indirectly from that. Just not as much as the business owner would prefer.

DomKen -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 1:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: No more <haha> bigotry than the industrialists pushing an agenda that sounds more like they SHOULDN'T have to pay taxes. Probably not. Biogtry is the default setting of the human race. It just tends to irk me a little more when it comes out of the wing of politics that like to imagine itself as unbigoted. Yet just yesterday you tried to deny that faux outrage of some right wingers over Obama doing things every President has done was not the result of bigotry.

tj444 -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 1:44:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: A corporation consists of shareholders, who may or may not have paid for the local services at least, and may not even be in this country. True, but only to a limited extent. Most corporations are smaller, local concerns and not the large, international monsters people tend to think when they hear the word. quote: I see where this is going, but a corporation, like, say GE, that does not pay taxes IS a parasite. Most corporations are not big enough to buy their own Presidents and skip out of paying taxes. While I agree that they should pay like everyone else I'm still not comfortable calling them parasites for the above mentioned reason and because GE does employ a lot of people (who pay taxes). not only that.. but the big, huge assumption here is that this factory/business actually survives and makes any money.. which considering the stats, is not the fate for the majority of new businesses (especially under 5 years)... which means the $$ invested and put at risk is borne by the owner of the business/factory/corporation.. The owner doesnt get to collect unemployment insurance either, he had better have an emergency fund if he doesnt want to end up homeless on that nicely paved street.. And many entreprenuers have had several businesses fail before they actually get one that survives..

SternSkipper -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 1:45:00 PM)
quote: How about the church property - property ONLY ! - for which the church pays ZERO, and yet gets full benefits should they need it. Estimates in Denver are that 20-25% of the LAND doesn't pay property tax since owned by Roman Catholic Church. Whole bushel of apples and oranges ya got there Lance... But WTF does it have to do with what Elizabeth Warren is voicing a response to? If ya got a beef with the church, start a thread ... don't create an artificial association with Elizabeth Warren... That's just kookey.

slvemike4u -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 1:45:02 PM)
Well what the hell....sometimes it's convenient ...sometimes it isn't ?

SternSkipper -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 1:53:20 PM)
Marc quote: I totally disagree, we have to listen to the opposite message every time we turn on a news broadcast or pick up a major news paper. I said nothing that should indicate that I wish to censor Elizabeth Warren or anyone else. Some of the response was about how I feel about whats ACTUALLY going one in the world outside your posts (however prophetic they may seem to you) .... I mean apart from the gross over use of the word 'bigotry'

Marc2b -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:04:17 PM)
quote: Which by and large he is. The wear and tear on those roads that he heaps on compared to all other individuals is not equitably proportionally taxed....and so on..... A mattrer of debate... my primary take on it was the bigotry.

Marc2b -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:07:54 PM)
quote: Yet just yesterday you tried to deny that faux outrage of some right wingers over Obama doing things every President has done was not the result of bigotry. No... I said it wasn't necessarily racism. Racism is biogtry but not all bigotry is racism. Clearly some people are biogted against democrats just as some are bigoted against republicans... or Christians, or Muslims, or athiests etc, etc, etc.

Marc2b -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:13:48 PM)
quote: Some of the response was about how I feel about whats ACTUALLY going one in the world outside your posts (however prophetic they may seem to you) .... I mean apart from the gross over use of the word 'bigotry' I don't see my posts as prophetic... merely a different take on that matter. As for my gross over use of the word bigotry... bigotry of any kind pisses me off. That, and because it is so damn common.

tazzygirl -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:18:33 PM)
Hmmm A business is started on a piece of property... are the roads already there? Then yes, the rest of us did pay for those roads.. not just the business owner. I believe the point of the quote was lost on many people... as I feared it would be. The point was... no business owner, you didnt do it alone. You had lots and lots and lots of help from the taxpayers when you needed help to get started. Yet now, you dont want to help out those taxpayers who helped you out when you needed help. Where anyone saw bigotry in that quote... lol.... ok.. that made me laugh.

Marc2b -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:30:11 PM)
quote: Hmmm A business is started on a piece of property... are the roads already there? Then yes, the rest of us did pay for those roads.. not just the business owner. I believe the point of the quote was lost on many people... as I feared it would be. The point was... no business owner, you didnt do it alone. You had lots and lots and lots of help from the taxpayers when you needed help to get started. Yet now, you dont want to help out those taxpayers who helped you out when you needed help. Where anyone saw bigotry in that quote... lol.... ok.. that made me laugh. Nowhere in that quote does it say "the rest of us along with you" it just says, "the rest of us." It sounds pretty exclusionary to me. I enjoy looking at things from a different perspective... if that amuses you then so be it but I've long felt that a singular view was both limiting and dangerous.

SternSkipper -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:39:39 PM)
quote: The clear implication is that the factory owner did not contribute to the roads, schools, etc., but was only sucking off of "the rest of us." You're right with blinders strapped firmly on... But regardless of what New Yawkahs like yourself think about her... We, the people of the COMMONWEALTH of Massachusetts (WHICH in proper context is "the rest of us" that actually matters)... think she'll make a FINE REPLACEMENT FOR SCOTT BROWN.

tazzygirl -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 2:51:52 PM)
You are always looking for exclusionary comments. And, it does amuse me. Now, let me ask you. Im sure someone could answer this question for me. A corporation is expected to pay taxes on profit. yet, according to the GAO, between 1997 and 2005, 66% of US corporations paid no taxes.. and 67% of foreign held corporations paid none... yet.. collectively... they totaled trillions of dollars in sales. The GAO study did not investigate why corporations weren’t paying federal income taxes or corporate taxes and it did not identify any corporations by name. It said companies may escape paying such taxes due to operating losses or because of tax credits. Sp, now we are back to Warren's quote.

EternalHoH -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 3:17:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan That sounds like, you build a factory, you no longer are responsible for any taxes, not federal, not state, no property taxes - nada. Actually, that pretty much is status-quo today. With unemployment high and local politicians under the gun, competition for employers to locate in districts is at an all time high. The business owners are playing states and cities against each other, to see who is going to give them the best or longest tax-free ride. They are using their relocation as a tool to avoid those taxes, getting special privileges that other established business owners in the areas they settle in do not get and end up paying double share for. After all, somebody's got to pay to build that new road into the new industrial park, and its not gonna be the new guy on the block who is moving in.

EternalHoH -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 3:28:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 not only that.. but the big, huge assumption here is that this factory/business actually survives and makes any money.. which considering the stats, is not the fate for the majority of new businesses (especially under 5 years)... which means the $$ invested and put at risk is borne by the owner of the business/factory/corporation.. The owner doesnt get to collect unemployment insurance either, he had better have an emergency fund if he doesnt want to end up homeless on that nicely paved street.. And many entreprenuers have had several businesses fail before they actually get one that survives.. But that is the nature of capitalism, is it not? If success in starting a business was always a certainty, it really would not be called capitalism, would it? This is where you decipher between those who should be business owners and those who should not. That said, there is nothing wrong with imparting a little bit of social contract on all businesses in the successful capitalism sphere. Just because some people are less equipped and should never have operated a business in the first place does not relieve that obligation from the successful ones.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 3:32:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Wow,in a quote discussing the social compact of a society you read all of that into it.I missed that completely [8\|] Why doesn't that surprise me?

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 3:34:42 PM)
The more interesting question is who the hell is building factories in this country these days. I haven't been seeing a whole lot of that.

tazzygirl -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 3:35:43 PM)
So if they arent building buildings, then those businesses are not paying those taxes associated with that building.... then we can add that to part of the discussion

SternSkipper -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 3:38:32 PM)
quote: You are always looking for exclusionary comments. And, it does amuse me. Now, let me ask you. Im sure someone could answer this question for me. Sp, now we are back to Warren's quote. Ya know, after listening to the blather for a while, I have to say Tazz... You totally called this one... It's gonna be a real hoot voting for Elizabeth and knowing there's folks here that can infer all the BS they want and at the end of the day, Scott Brown will be headed back to the Medical Insurance company that paid for his speedy Ascension intoa brief and lusterless care in politics. I'm going to a meet and greet next month where I _know_ I have a guarenteed 30 seconds with the guy. I am going to enjoy shaking his hand and saying "Scotty, we hardly knew ye. That's a Kennedy Joke son. Ted say hi". And by the way, Elizabeth's election more so than the new york special election is a referendum on the Tea Party because Scott Brown was their 'breakthrough candidate' ...He's the first of many we're sending packing in the coming election cycle. I suppose that will qualify for mass 'bigotry'[:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Elizabeth Warren quote (9/23/2011 4:49:46 PM)
I had heard she hasnt declared yet that she will run but is polling almost equal to him, is that true?

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