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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/25/2011 8:36:03 PM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Cool the zionists got what they wanted, so now are we going to sort put all the other dissposessed claimants elsewhere in the world, or is it charity does not extend that far ?

There is a precedent, so why not sort out the worlds wrongs including the Native American's claims, or is it they don't count?

We have different definitions of charity apparently.

We certainly do, my take is where there's precedent, there is the means, not we will help one bunch of people , but fuck everyone else, because that stinks of favouritism and there opens the channels for whatever abuse can be hurled by others.

If one is going to set themselves up as a higher power to meter out justice, it must be done fairly for all concerned or else expect what comes, Al Quada for example.

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/25/2011 9:17:39 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Cool the zionists got what they wanted, so now are we going to sort put all the other dissposessed claimants elsewhere in the world, or is it charity does not extend that far ?

There is a precedent, so why not sort out the worlds wrongs including the Native American's claims, or is it they don't count?

We have different definitions of charity apparently.

We certainly do, my take is where there's precedent, there is the means, not we will help one bunch of people , but fuck everyone else, because that stinks of favouritism and there opens the channels for whatever abuse can be hurled by others.

If one is going to set themselves up as a higher power to meter out justice, it must be done fairly for all concerned or else expect what comes, Al Quada for example.

Then you should love the US, because there is no one who has been more charitable for all.

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/25/2011 9:21:29 PM

Aneirin

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My understanding of charity is where something is given with no expectation of reward, tell me of all the charitable actions have they been such ?

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/25/2011 9:23:33 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

My understanding of charity is where something is given with no expectation of reward, tell me of all the charitable actions have they been such ?

Tell me the rewards the US has gotten from its charity. If they were given with that expectation we would have learned long ago that charity doesnt elicit anything.

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/25/2011 9:23:50 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

I'd also suggest not to get too hung up on the settlements

For goodness sake, the illegal colonies are the precise reason why the peace talks broke down. What does it take to get it through that this is a critical issue?

The Palestinians have made it crystal clear that this issue is a deal-breaker. As they have every right to do.

If you insist on trivialising their deal-breaking issues, why should any one pay attention to the issues Israel regards as deal-breakers? There is zero possibility of a deal until people start listening to one another, and accepting each other's deal-breakers as real. If you're serious about this, you really need to start listening.

Justify to me why the Israelis must be allowed to continue expanding their colonies. I asked you this question in my last post and you ignored it. Why must Israel be allowed to continue expanding its colonies? Why is it so important to Israel? Why is it more important than peace? Why is it impossible for Israel to freeze the colonies for the duration of peace negotiations?

Please answer those questions. I have outlined why Israel's refusal to freeze the colonies raises basic questions about its good faith. Unless you can come up with some convincing explanations, there is no alternative but to conclude that Israel prefers completing its conquest of the West Bank to peace - it's uninterested in a Two State solution and is entering into any negotiations in bad faith. Negotiations would be a charade - talks would be pointless, a façade to hide Israel's continuing theft until it's complete. Which is exactly what has happened for most of the past 18 years of unsuccessful negotiations.

So these questions must be addressed. Or the Two State solution will cease to be an option. It's as simple as that.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 9/25/2011 10:02:54 PM >

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/25/2011 9:48:20 PM

TheHeretic

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I just don't see the evidence that peace is what the Palestinians really want. Without that, I'm not being asked to support a movement towards a peaceful resolution, but to take sides in the war.

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/26/2011 3:51:24 AM

samboct

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Tweak

I think the Israelis expanding into the West Bank is effectively a negotiating tactic- to increase pressure on the Palestinian authority for a peace accord. Given what you're describing, it would seem that the West Bank would soon be over run by Israelis, but this is not the case as borne out by this Wiki entry below:

In December 2007, an official Census conducted by the Palestinian Authority found that the Palestinian Arab population of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) was 2,345,000.[36][37] However, the World Bank and American-Israeli Demographic Research Group identified a 32% discrepancy between first-grade enrollment statistics documented by the Palestinian Ministry of Education and Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS)’ 2007 projections,[38] with questions also raised about the PCBS’ growth assumptions for the period 1997-2003.[39] Several media outlets have suggested that PCBS data inflate the 2007 census figures by 30%, contradicting both the Palestinian Ministry of Education's enrollment data and actual emigration growth documented by Israeli Border Police, which in 2006 observed 25,000 Palestinian Arabs emigrating from Palestinian Authority-controlled territories.[40] These data sets suggest that the Palestinian Arab population of the West Bank in 2007 was approximately 1.5 million.
There are over 350,000 Israeli settlers living in the West Bank, as well as around 210,000 living in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem. There are also small ethnic groups, such as the Samaritans living in and around Nablus, numbering in the hundreds. Interactions between the two societies have generally declined following the Palestinian First Intifada and Second Intifada, though an economic relationship often exists between adjacent Israeli and Palestinian Arab villages.[citation needed]
As of October 2007, around 23,000 Palestinians in the West Bank work in Israel every day with another 9,200 working in Israeli settlements. In addition, around 10,000 Palestinian traders from the West Bank are allowed to travel every day into Israel.[41]
Approximately 30% of Palestinians living in the West Bank are refugees or descendants of refugees from villages and towns located in what became Israel during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War (see Palestinian exodus), 754,263 in June 2008 according to UNRWA statistics.[42][43][44]

I still think this is a red herring and you're ignoring the heart of the problem. This has been discussed ad nauseam for years- with settlement construction held up. Here's a question for you....if this was such a deal breaker, how come a peace accord wasn't signed under Olmert who did hold up construction of settlements?

Sam

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RE: Abbas just says... No - 9/26/2011 5:38:02 PM

tweakabelle

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Sam
I note you're either unable or unwilling to address the questions I put to you.

I note that you're claiming the colonies are a "tactic" and a "red herring" when to the rest of the world, including your Govt, they're a flagrant war crime.

I also note you don't seem to understand what the term 'deal breaker' means.

I'll be happy to continue this conversation when you have worked out what a deal breaker is. Until then, it's pointless discussing a Two State solution.

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