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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 10:17:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I'me ethically flexible in these matters.

What a friend we have in Jesus;

Christ Almighty!!!!!! What a pal......

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 9/27/2011 10:20:03 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 10:25:53 AM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		I can see your congregation swelling to immense proportions.

Next thing you know, you'll be screwing the secretaries and running for office. And just think of the great record of criminal reformation you'll have behind you.



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--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 10:27:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And when I do go to prison, you can just call me 'Tammy Faye'

Jim Baker

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 10:34:08 AM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And when I do go to prison, you can just call me 'Tammy Faye'

Jim Baker

And, of course, you'll require access to sufficent make-up so that "those lips can leave kisses" as you perform misdemanors in the name of protecting your self. LOL!

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"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 11:46:03 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

I'm not very religious but have a little bit of knowledge and I'm just wondering, why is this such a bad thing? I mean when I was young and going to church I was taught to love my neighbor, don't steal, don't kill, be compassionate, be charitable and be a part of something bigger than myself.
What did i miss or forget about church?


You're probably remembering the church of your childhood - which, unfortunately, does not resemble many of the churches of today. I, too, remember the church of my childhood and, later, the church my father was the pastor of. They don't resemble many of the churches of today, either.

All too many of today's churches teach exclusion rather than inclusion, rigidity rather than open-mindedness, and a sense of superiority and exceptionalism rather than humility and universal brotherhood.





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"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 11:48:49 AM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
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Status: offline 		Anyone want to bet that the first individual or organization that sues the town over this program will be accused of "persecuting Christians"?

"Help! Help! I'm being oppressed by atheists and non-Christians!"





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_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 12:40:42 PM   
kalikshama


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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 1:39:32 PM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline 		Where I think this policy runs aground is the apparent lack of equal treatment under the law.  One path of reform is way too easy. It's preferential treatment for the so-called believers.  Two people commit the same crime, and one gets an easier 'out' than the other simply because that second person might have a desire to avoid cross-pollination of faith and/or the non-believer's choice to not be indoctrinated religiously.  When you have such a disparity between sentences, it becomes a defacto government arm-twisting of people into the church.

Sounds to me that this is the result of local government getting cheap and lazy.  This community wants the result of a orderly, responsible society, but doesn't want to have to put in the necessary time and money to achieve that.  There are plenty of ways to avoid costs that don't have the church angle to it. Put them under house arrest (where the family foots the food and housing bill) and make them do community service that replaces a paid municipal worker.  But here, they even turn the compliance function over to churches.  Lazy government.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 1:50:43 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
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Status: offline 		Idaho Inmate Had To Accept Jail Or Jesus

quote:

When you’re locked up for a drug offense and offered the opportunity for early release if you’ll go to a treatment program, the deal must look pretty sweet.

But what if the “treatment” program is a fundamentalist Christian indoctrination session? And what if successful completion of the program hinges on your willingness to embrace that faith?

Idaho resident Janene Cowles found herself in just that situation in 2006. Convicted of a drug offense, Cowles was told she could serve a year in the Ada County Jail or attend a “discipleship/recovery” program at the Boise Rescue Mission. She chose the program.

Although not a Christian, Cowles knew the program was religious and thought she could get through it. But once she got there, it was just not a good fit. The program was heavily Pentecostal in nature. Cowles was expected to pray, sing hymns, lay hands on the afflicted and even take part in exorcisms to cast out demons. (She was even forced to attend National Day of Prayer activities at the state capitol.)

When Cowles complained she was kicked out – and sent back to jail.


Imagine that Ms. Cowles had been Mr. Cowles and the Boise Rescue Mission was operate by Orthodox Jews. In order to successfully complete the drug rehab program, it would require that Mr. Cowles learn Hebrew and would also require Mr. Cowles' circumcision.

Would that be acceptable? I doubt it...

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 2:13:44 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		There are no words to describe how profoundly fucked up this is... not only state-sponsored moral indoctrination, but state-sponsored RELIGIOUS moral indoctrination.And for DRUGS no fucking less.


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They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 2:24:16 PM   
Masta808


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Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline 		I love this. We all know true Christians never committed any crimes.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 2:28:11 PM   
Epytropos


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Joined: 7/23/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

I'm not very religious but have a little bit of knowledge and I'm just wondering, why is this such a bad thing? I mean when I was young and going to church I was taught to love my neighbor, don't steal, don't kill, be compassionate, be charitable and be a part of something bigger than myself.
What did i miss or forget about church?


If I had to guess I'd say you were missing the part where it was a church, which is to say a religious institution. Since that and the government's actions regarding that fact are the only relevant issues, my only guess would be that that's the part you missed

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to DanaYielding)
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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 2:42:43 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I honestly do not see where this would violate anyone's rights.  On one hand, you have go directly to jail and have a record.  With this, you have go directly to jail or go to church on Sunday's for a year, then have your charges dismissed.

So, the better plan would be just the go directly to jail?

Church helps some folks become better people. Other folks, it helps expose their insanities.  Either way, it is win/win for the community.

IMHO, my opinion only, all the usual, I aint claiming this to be proven fact bullshit, that seems to be necessary lately on the boards.


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yep

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 3:02:26 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Anyone want to bet that the first individual or organization that sues the town over this program will be accused of "persecuting Christians"?


I doubt that very seriously.

Nonetheless, I'm a bit torn on how I feel about this. 

On the one hand, I'm not too keen on involving religious institution in the judicial wing of the government.  It might be a bit more palatable if there were clear choices between denominations, as well as similar non-religion related options for any who oppose organized religion.

On the other, I'm kinda with StrangerThan in that no one is being forced to choose the church option.  We're talking convicted non-violent criminals; they are being given an option that they wouldn't otherwise have that will allow them to avoid jail.  Attending a weekly church service doesn't mean they have to embrace religion, convert or accept a faith.  At worse, they would spent a terribly boring hour once a week for a year.

If I had one more hand, I'd say that the prospect of this actually accomplishing anything other than possibly reducing the jail population is dubious.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 3:19:24 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto





Now that is fucking hitting the nail on the head!  Love it!


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yep

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 4:05:57 PM   
EternalHoH


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Joined: 5/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

On the other, I'm kinda with StrangerThan in that no one is being forced to choose the church option. 




Forced, no.

Heavily arm twisted (coercion into church to avoid a record), absolutely.   This is where the fucking train derails.

Two guys guilty of the same crime should have the same record, regardless of which route they go. The evangelical route should not have a sweeter deal.  That amounts to the government endorsing religion by virtue of extending lighter punishment and/or criminal record expungement.





< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 9/27/2011 4:07:11 PM >

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 4:15:39 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Might help if that made sense.



Would it though?

Cool, headphones in simply means although one can be present, they don't have to listen, the referral to headphones was who is going to stop anyone listening to whatever through private media devices, as the last I heard regarding Christianity's goal was to get more people to go to church, which if cool, anyone can go to church, perhaps even the whole populace, but going is one thing and listening is another.

But is it poor or not, that the popularity of Christianity is so bad, that they have to influence the the law of the region to get people onto pews in lieu of prison ?

Sounds pretty desperate to me, and that as Christianity has a long history of being cunts to people ,(in the name of god of course)

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 9/27/2011 4:16:20 PM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 6:24:16 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Anyone want to bet that the first individual or organization that sues the town over this program will be accused of "persecuting Christians"?

Yes, I'll take that bet. How much you got to put behind it?

K.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 6:44:06 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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From: The dog house
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quote:

What did i miss or forget about church?
Hatred, intolerance, bigotry, narrow mindedness, indoctrination, homophobia, xenophobia, racism, deception, oppression, and pedophilia just for starters.

(in reply to DanaYielding)
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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/27/2011 10:12:31 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Anyone want to bet that the first individual or organization that sues the town over this program will be accused of "persecuting Christians"?

Yes, I'll take that bet. How much you got to put behind it?

K.

I'm on Kirata's side.  Seems like ACLU is gearing up to be first.  <just google ACLU ROC>

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

10 fluffy points
50 nz points

Member: VAA's posse

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