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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 1:16:03 AM

Masta808

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Anyone want to bet that the first individual or organization that sues the town over this program will be accused of "persecuting Christians"?

Yes, I'll take that bet. How much you got to put behind it?

K.

I'm on Kirata's side. Seems like ACLU is gearing up to be first. <just google ACLU ROC>

Exactly, what has the ACLU done for us? Besides protect our right to have kinky sex, with in "limits"

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 6:20:38 AM

Fightdirecto

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Florida lieutenant governor says Christians are under attack

quote:

Jennifer Carroll, Florida's Lt. Governor, spoke at a rally sponsored by Ralph Reed's Faith and Freedom Coalition, in which she claimed that Christians are under siege...

This sort of talk is par for the course in fundamentalist circles. They claim that "the world" is persecuting them and mocking them -while ignoring that a lot of the things they do open them up for well-deserved ridicule.

Watching this speech brought back memories of the dominionist group that I was suckered into joining back in my days at Carolina. There was endless talk about how everyone hated us because of "what we believe."...

We got the same accusations after lodging strong complaints about a church harassing and proselytizing right at our church's table (Unitarian-Universalist church) at a public event. We were "persecuting Christians!"...

For decades I've heard this... even spouted it when I was still brainwashed. I'm now ashamed of the things I did as a "Good Christian", especially when I was in the Assemblies of God. Truly, you believe that if someone resists you, you are being persecuted - and you're taught to fear "real" persecution too (being punished for belonging to a group that abuses others, although they say "for belonging to a 'REAL' church). Anything that blocks their goals and attempts to force themselves on others is considered "persecution".

My late father, an American Baptist Convention minister, pastored a church in a small town in New Mexico for over 20 years until shortly before his death in 2009. When he gave a sermon on what Jesus had said, recorded in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 25 Verse 40 ("Truly I tell you, whatever you did to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did to me"), a local fundamentalist church accused him of "persecuting Christians".

< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 9/28/2011 6:22:23 AM >

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 6:28:11 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

When he gave a sermon on what Jesus had said, recorded in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 25 Verse 40 ("Truly I tell you, whatever you did to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did to me"), a local fundamentalist church accused him of "persecuting Christians".

It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning. ~Bill Waterson, Calvin & Hobbes

K.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 9:21:57 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

On the other, I'm kinda with StrangerThan in that no one is being forced to choose the church option. We're talking convicted non-violent criminals; they are being given an option that they wouldn't otherwise have that will allow them to avoid jail. Attending a weekly church service doesn't mean they have to embrace religion, convert or accept a faith. At worse, they would spent a terribly boring hour once a week for a year.

My problem with this is that there is no option for those who do not believe in the select few faiths offered. What if your jewish, or muslim, or atheist?

Other questions came to mind. Whats the deterent if you know all you will be punished with is sundays in church?

How is this not an example of a state advocating religion?

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 9:57:27 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How is this not an example of a state advocating religion?

I see is as an "alternative punishment."

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 10:03:34 PM

tazzygirl

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You are ok with this?

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 10:14:57 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are ok with this?

Fuck ya if ya can't take a joke.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 10:25:43 PM

tazzygirl

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Umm.. I was asking. Hense, the question mark

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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 10:26:37 PM

GreedyTop

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he was making a joke (I giggled, K...LOL)

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/28/2011 11:59:16 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Umm.. I was asking. Hense, the question mark

Okay, serious answer. Yes, I see the problem with it. On the other hand, I've never known anyone to be improved by prison.

Now, you can take a fellow who behaves in an anti-social way and say to him, "Okay, fine, that's how you want to behave, we'll lock you up with a bunch of other anti-social assholes." Or you can take him and say, "That's not how we do things," and require him to spend some time with a group that is supportive and cares about others, where he might have a chance to experience something different and learn something from it.

Remember, he is not being required to believe in God, to become a Christian, or to stand up and recite the creed. He's only being required to spend some time once a week among a gathering of people who aren't like the "street" he came from.

Yes, I see the problem with it. But if you ask me if I think it's probably better -- for both the guy and for society -- than sending him to prison, yeah I do. Would I think it better if he could choose between a church, a synagoge, a mosque, or a temple? Certainly. Would I think it even better if it wasn't something religious at all? Absolutely! But if we had something like that, that's where we'd be sending him in the first place.

So yes, I see the problem with it. But I also see a problem with the hell-holes we call prisons, the human products of which we release into our neighborhoods when they "graduate," and then bury their victims before we send them back.

This is an attempt to provide an alternative. However misguided it may be, for that I give it credit. I give no credit whatsoever to people who just want to bitch about the shortcomings of this attempt at a potentially productive alternative to prison, and then go back to sleep feeling all fuzzy and righteous.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 9/29/2011 12:00:23 AM >

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 12:00:38 AM

Termyn8or

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I'd choose jail.

T^T

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 12:10:28 AM

tazzygirl

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~FR

What about the victims?

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 1:11:50 AM

tweakabelle

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I hope they nail down the Bibles .... and anything else that moves in the churches .... and don't let them near the collection plates!

Seriously though, what an appalling idea. Though with approx 2 million in jails, it's pretty obvious that they don't work as deterrents to crime. Something else is needed. Someone ought to whisper "community service" in the Mayor's ears.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 3:11:51 AM

StrangerThan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

What about the victims?

The article says non-violent crimes. I know that doesn't mean the crimes are without victims, but let's be clear on the scope.We're not talking murders, manslaughter, rapes, assaults, kidnappings, armed robberies.. you know.

I mean, if we're talking things that are offensive to the perpetrator, I would be more offended sitting in a cell with Bubba, than I would be listening to Reverend Rob preach the gospel. I grew up in a fundamentalist household. I couldn't get away from it fast enough. The thought of walking into a church for most of my life has been one that made my skin crawl. But with that choice sitting in front of me, I don't have a problem telling you which I'd choose.

But I'm not sure your concern is valid, with the possible exception of atheists, because the same article states "However, even with religious alternatives, Boston still finds the program to be problematic. "It's not the job of the government to place people in places of worship," he said."

So it really boils down to, we can't stand the thought of religion so put the fuckers in jail, as the opposing viewpoint.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 9/29/2011 3:12:52 AM >

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 4:55:02 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

So it really boils down to, we can't stand the thought of religion so put the fuckers in jail, as the opposing viewpoint.

There could be something to that...

Teacher penalizes students for saying "bless you"

He's even lowering students' grades if they say "bless you" after someone sneezes. Steve Cuckovich says the practice is disrespectful and disruptive... After parents complained about students losing points for saying "bless you", Cuckovich says he decided to stop the practice. However, the teacher says he will just find another way to discipline students for saying "bless you" in class.

K.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 5:04:35 PM

tazzygirl

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Lowered grades by 25 points. Sounds extremely petty to me, his whole attitude is petty, especially by threatening to find new ways.

Someone needs to find another job.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 6:13:52 PM

StrangerThan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Lowered grades by 25 points. Sounds extremely petty to me, his whole attitude is petty, especially by threatening to find new ways.

Someone needs to find another job.

Wonder what you get for a Oh My God, or an OMG tweet.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 7:09:26 PM

tazzygirl

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lol.. whatever it is, it wont be a year of sunday church worship...

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Go To Jail - Or Go To Church? - 9/29/2011 7:17:58 PM

Fightdirecto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Lowered grades by 25 points. Sounds extremely petty to me, his whole attitude is petty, especially by threatening to find new ways.
Someone needs to find another job.

Wonder what you get for a Oh My God, or an OMG tweet.

Or a "gesundheit" - after all, that's speaking a furrin' language rather than speaking good ol' 'Merican.

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