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RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:01:09 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

I asked a couple of questions. Please explain where I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

By setting yourself up to do some big drama-queen challenging of the event organiser over something which really isn't a big deal, and then coming here to ask again when you didn't get the answers you liked there.

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Post #: 41

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:06:19 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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Drama queen? I think you're the one exaggerating here. The conversation I had with this guy was over a year ago. I was looking for something online and I was reminded of it and thought I would ask about the whole signing issue here. Given my limited experiences, I didn't know if this was a standard practise or just this guy being over the top.

You're choosing to filter my words through your own lens and project your impressions onto what you think is my motivation and you're wrong.

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Post #: 42

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:15:57 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The suggestion that you would sign a fake name is pretty disturbing. Doesn't your honor mean anything to you? That kind of thinking may be why you aren't getting such a warm reception at the local play parties.

I've only been to one play party here and that was organized by someone else. There were no waivers signed, everyone was adult enough to conduct themselves in a mature manner. And why would it be disturbing to sign a fake name? To use the word "disturbing" sounds a little extreme. After all, if I did sign it, I would still be acknowledging the fact that I'd read the rules, etc., which from my understanding of everyone's posts here, is all they are looking for. Maybe you don't understand it, but I prefer to keep my full name private and by signing my real name, that privacy ends.

If you lived here, you would know that the community* here has a lot of division amongst the people involved. I'd rather stay out of it altogether, so I do.

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 10/3/2011 11:16:56 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:26:09 AM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

And why would it be disturbing to sign a fake name?

Because it constitutes a fraud?

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 44

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:28:36 AM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
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Whatever, DD. If you need to have honor explained to you, then I wouldn't welcome you with open arms either. You should read Arthur Miller's "The Crucible". He probably explains the importance of one's good name better than I can.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 45

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:34:00 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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You've got two questions on this thread that I can address. Let's start with the how common is it part.

These days, it's pretty darn common. One of the reasons for this is that the net has changed a lot of things. It isn't all about people coming to the house that you've known for years and years to attend a play party. Quite often, it's folks that you've met a few times at munches (the vetting process that you spoke of) and then they are invited to attend. These are folks that you've talked with casually at dinner, but until you see them play, you don't know how they are going to act at a play party. You honestly don't know if they are familiar with rules or what rules might be different than the last place they were used to playing. It's not universal.

We're not talking about private parties here. We're talking about parties that are held through munch groups. From a legal standpoint, that group is taking a bigger risk than you are in signing a copy of the rules.

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(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 46

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 11:54:46 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD
Just out of curiosity...these play parties that you have attended at a private home...weren't all individuals invited to the party vetted first?

Vetted?

Certain members of Fresno's BDSM club own a house with a dungeon out back. They rent this house to another member of the group, on the condition that he'll open it for any member who wants to use it. The group also holds play parties there. i believe the dungeon is considered the property of the group (it's partly what members dues pay for), but since someone is living there (renting the house) and another member owns the property (not licensed for commercial use), it's natural that they would want to limit their liability. Whether the waiver actually does that in the eyes of the law, i don't know.

Members attending a play party must RSVP through the group. They must have paid their dues, and in order to become a member, they must have attended 2 munches and gone to orientation. Any member may bring one non-member as a guest to a party, as long as that person also RSVPs and pays the entrance fee. Anyone attending a party for the first time must sign a waiver, which is then kept on file for future parties.

The only screening involved is whether someone is current on their dues, and is a member or the guest of a member, and has RSVPed.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 10/3/2011 11:59:04 AM >

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 47

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 1:59:12 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

It's been awhile since I dropped outta law school to grab a MBA, The doc seems pretty straight forward. They seem to want you to know and understand the rules. Kinda like I didn't know I had to clean up my mess... They respond you signed a statement that you get the idea.... I call em moron clauses... If you act like a moron they toss yer dumb ass.

BadOne

As I had asked, I'm just wondering if the house rules has any legal weight. I obviously can't provide the waiver, as it isn't online. But even so, I'm wondering the same thing about a waiver. In the end, if all they want are attendees to read the house rules and acknowledge a few items, they could just have attendees read it at the door and initial it. Or provide it online and have a person make an electronic signature. I tried to suggest this to the guy who organizes these things but he got all bent out of shape over it.

Legal weight how??? It's a private party they don't need a excuse to ask you to leave.

Oh boy lemme get this straight... A stranger <You> walks up to me and explains how they think I should run my business. "Just shut the fuck up" would be my response

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 10/3/2011 2:00:09 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 2:41:46 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

Oh boy lemme get this straight... A stranger <You> walks up to me and explains how they think I should run my business. "Just shut the fuck up" would be my response

How completely and unjustifiably apoplecticly bent out of shape of you!!

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 49

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 9:35:17 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

You're choosing to filter my words through your own lens and project your impressions onto what you think is my motivation and you're wrong.

So, not entirely unlike yourself then.

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(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 50

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 10:18:32 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Legal weight how??? It's a private party they don't need a excuse to ask you to leave.

Oh boy lemme get this straight... A stranger <You> walks up to me and explains how they think I should run my business. "Just shut the fuck up" would be my response

My sentiments exactly! DD has obviously not attended many events. Yet, has apparently tried to tell the organizer how he/she should run things.

I know that I wouldn't have responded very well to that if I had been the organizer. My position would have been that if DD wasn't comfortable with our rules, then he/she should feel free to not attend.

DD seems to be concerned about whether the document is legally binding. Suppose there IS real legal authority in the document. All that would mean is that if someone got hurt, they wouldn't hold the organizer liable. This seems quite reasonable, since most play at parties is between consenting adults. If one of them gets burned during fireplay, or cut during knife play, why should the organizer be held liable? Similarly, if an attendee violates the rules, why shouldn't the organizer be able to throw them out of the event? And if the attendee damages property, why shouldn't the organizer be able to have them replace the damaged property/equipment?

Note to DD: As the saying goes; "Methinks thou dost protest too much". If you plan to follow the house rules, and don't expect to damage property or do anything overtly dangerous, then why are you concerned about whether the waiver is legally binding? Your motivations would give me serious pause. In fact, I probably wouldn't feel comfortable allowing you to attend any event that I was sponsoring.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 10/3/2011 10:29:39 PM >

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 51

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 10:22:03 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I always made it simple when I held play parties at my house. You only got invited if I knew you personally and I liked you. This way no waivers needed, no strangers in my home, no one that I thought was going to destroy my house.

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Post #: 52

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/3/2011 10:38:40 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

if all they want are attendees to read the house rules and acknowledge a few items, they could just have attendees read it at the door and initial it. Or provide it online and have a person make an electronic signature. I tried to suggest this to the guy who organizes these things but he got all bent out of shape over it.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?

DD, you say that the organizer got "bent out of shape". But what you apparently don't see is that the reason he got bent out of shape over your suggestions is that you first got "bent out of shape" over his rules.

Why couldn't you just follow the house rules like everybody else? Or was everyone else also making "suggestions" and seeking legal counsel?

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 10/3/2011 10:39:23 PM >

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

Post #: 53

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/4/2011 10:12:27 PM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You've got two questions on this thread that I can address. Let's start with the how common is it part.

These days, it's pretty darn common. One of the reasons for this is that the net has changed a lot of things. It isn't all about people coming to the house that you've known for years and years to attend a play party. Quite often, it's folks that you've met a few times at munches (the vetting process that you spoke of) and then they are invited to attend. These are folks that you've talked with casually at dinner, but until you see them play, you don't know how they are going to act at a play party. You honestly don't know if they are familiar with rules or what rules might be different than the last place they were used to playing. It's not universal.

We're not talking about private parties here. We're talking about parties that are held through munch groups. From a legal standpoint, that group is taking a bigger risk than you are in signing a copy of the rules.

Thanks for your response LadyPact! You've provided a couple of aspects of things I hadn't considered. :)

_____________________________

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Post #: 54

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/5/2011 1:27:24 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You've got two questions on this thread that I can address. Let's start with the how common is it part.

These days, it's pretty darn common. One of the reasons for this is that the net has changed a lot of things. It isn't all about people coming to the house that you've known for years and years to attend a play party. Quite often, it's folks that you've met a few times at munches (the vetting process that you spoke of) and then they are invited to attend. These are folks that you've talked with casually at dinner, but until you see them play, you don't know how they are going to act at a play party. You honestly don't know if they are familiar with rules or what rules might be different than the last place they were used to playing. It's not universal.

We're not talking about private parties here. We're talking about parties that are held through munch groups. From a legal standpoint, that group is taking a bigger risk than you are in signing a copy of the rules.

Thanks for your response LadyPact! You've provided a couple of aspects of things I hadn't considered. :)

I'm actually surprised that you hadn't considered those things. Just look at your own situation. Do the sponsors know you? Can they attest for how you're going to behave? Probably not. Now multiply that by 100 or more.

In the old days, the local kink community was very small. We knew everybody, and things were less formal (but far more secretive).

My local group used to have about 30 members. Since we started our FetLife group, our membership has exploded. We now have over 200 members. New people attend every week. And most of them are complete strangers to us. There is nobody in the group who can attest for them. We don't know if they're serial rapists. We don't know if they have criminal records. We don't know if they've been kicked out of a similar group in another city. We don't know if they know how to use the equipment properly. And yet, all they have to do is attend one munch, and they can then come into our facility and "play".

Imagine that YOU were the host. Wouldn't you want some type of assurance to protect yourself? When you look at it that way, do you see why a waiver might be necessary? What would YOU do if 150 complete strangers were coming to YOUR house (or to a space that you had rented) to whip, flog, bind, burn, bruise, cut, cage, and suspend one another? I'll bet you would have them sign some type of waiver. Wouldn't you?

It's easy to question the rules when you're not the one taking the risk. But if you place yourself in the shoes of the hosts, I think you'll see things in a completely different light.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 10/5/2011 1:30:45 PM >

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Post #: 55

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/5/2011 2:34:23 PM

LizDeluxe

Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
The suggestion that you would sign a fake name is pretty disturbing. Doesn't your honor mean anything to you?

If honor was as big a deal in bdsm as you make it out to be we would all be posting with our real names. We aren't. Case closed.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 56

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/5/2011 2:57:55 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
The suggestion that you would sign a fake name is pretty disturbing. Doesn't your honor mean anything to you?

If honor was as big a deal in bdsm as you make it out to be we would all be posting with our real names. We aren't. Case closed.

Well you do make a very small point. Do I want a bunch of strangers knowing my real name on a sex site, UH not so much. Do I want someone I do business with searching my name and ending up here??? Prolly NOT. However everyone I have met in RL knows my name. <well there was this one time...> I dont have a job where I have to be concerned with anonymity so I have a pict in my profile.

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 10/5/2011 3:06:51 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 57

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/5/2011 3:04:00 PM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

What does what we do on this site have to do with signing something that says you have agreed to a set of rules when going to a play party? I don't remember signing anything when I joined this site. Just not making the connection, lizzy, but I am sure you will have some great explanation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
The suggestion that you would sign a fake name is pretty disturbing. Doesn't your honor mean anything to you?

If honor was as big a deal in bdsm as you make it out to be we would all be posting with our real names. We aren't. Case closed.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)

Post #: 58

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/5/2011 3:27:35 PM

LizDeluxe

Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

What does what we do on this site have to do with signing something that says you have agreed to a set of rules when going to a play party? I don't remember signing anything when I joined this site. Just not making the connection, lizzy, but I am sure you will have some great explanation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
The suggestion that you would sign a fake name is pretty disturbing. Doesn't your honor mean anything to you?

If honor was as big a deal in bdsm as you make it out to be we would all be posting with our real names. We aren't. Case closed.

I just thought it was really out of line to call someone's integrity into question simply because they chose to sign a pen name on one of those play party releases. The whole scene is shrouded in secrecy at its core. It's not like people walk around at play parties wearing name tags with their real names like they might at a high school reunion. I guess I am just not as judgmental about such things. To each his own.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)

Post #: 59

RE: Question for those who go to play parties - 10/5/2011 3:41:49 PM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

Organizer of play party wants to insure rules are followed
In order to do that, and to protect him from liability, he wants a document signed.
If you don't want to sign, you don't have to participate.
If you do want to participate, the organizer expects you to sign, with your real name.

I just don't see how signing with a phony name is not lying. But like you said, to each their own.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 10/5/2011 3:46:40 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)

Post #: 60

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