Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II Page: <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/6/2011 8:50:39 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline 		NakisisaX... I understand, and not understand, your posting. I understand the sentences, and some of their meanings, but I do not understand the whole. Or at least, not as an answer.

I truly respect you. But please let me put this in a very easy way. Like talking to a child. It is not you - it is me. English is not my mother tongue. I have difficulties here.

1. A person (for example: you) belongs to many different cultures at the same time. Some are cultures defined by geography, some by ascendant, occupation, way of life (urbanite / rural), hobbies, kinks (BDSM culture), etc, etc, etc. There are almost infinite criteria.

Do you agree with this?

2. Even within the geographical and/or genetic, there are many possible divisions. You can divide by planet (yep), continent, subcontinent, area, region, province/State, municipality, or even part of the city (Beverly Hills subculture). You can divide by huge (African), big (Chinese), middle-sized (Illirian culture), small (Sicilian subculture) or tiny "clades" of ancestors. There are almost infinite levels of granularity.

Do you agree with this?

3. Providing you agree with (1) and (2): How can you possibly say, that it is morally better for a person to concentrate on ONE kind of culture in ONE level of granularity, as in any other?

----------

I will ask the same in another way now. Feel free to ignore one of the two presentations completely.

In your sentence, "It is important to learn about other cultures one comes in contact with but its even more important to learn everything about yours" - you implicitly say that there is something like "my" culture. Which is ONE culture, and not many. According to you, I should have to care specially about that ONE culture. And this would be morally good. And failing on doing it would be morally bad.

Which and why? In my case. In my specific case, please.

If you say that I decide, then you are saying nothing, because you are saying "You should not ignore the culture which you consider imporant". Well, of course, if I myself consider it important, I won't ignore it. This sentence is not informative. It says nothing.

But if you tell me that there is a criteria to decide which is "my" culture, and there is a justification for - why I should care about it more as about any other of my cultures... then I kindly ask you again - which is this criteria, and where is the justification.

Please try to concentrate on me. You are not saying that YOU should do something. You were saying that PEOPLE, we ALL, should do something. And I am asking myself how and why this applies to me.

Thank you again.

(in reply to NakisisaX)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/6/2011 11:27:48 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I believe somewhere in between is good, but we cannot have that in between without the two sides. I have a moral code that someone's rights ends where my begins. If someone wishes to celebrate their culture in a manner that is lawful, and all cultures are equitably treated under the law, I have no problem with that.

I lived within the Asian community for a few years of my life, and I learned how a world (culture) within a world (The United States) can exist without any on the outside even noticing much.

I am also the parent of a child with mixed heritage, African-American and Caucasian. I want him to learn of his heritage, but I know my limitations, and why I will have a friend of mine do it while I sit in and learn as well. I will be able to tell the stories handed down through my linage, but have no stories of his paternal side, so that will need to be supplimented. I hope he grows to be proud of all his heritage, for the things they should be proud of, and learn from the mistakes that have been made along the many generations.

I do agree that a common language would assist in acclimation to any country though. No matter what that language is, the necessity to communicate among a people is vital.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Fightdirecto and Firm seem to be on opposite ends of the multicultural tolerance spectrum and I find myself somewhere in between.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/6/2011 8:14:48 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Really?

I'm sorry Aynne, but I think your last post was insulting and uncalled for, even if it doesn't merit mod intervention.

Could we please restrict the discussion to ideas, and not personalities?  I think the the posters have done an exceptionally good job so far, and I'd like to keep it as professional as possible.

Firm



Oh my god that was rich Firm. Mod intervention? Hahahahaha..with the Canadian quartet around? Nice try. They have raised the bar so high now even Domi can't get modded.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 3:24:22 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		We can always moderate ourselves, we are adults. If you have read the post from VideoAdminAlpha, the guidelines and how things are going to be handled in the future are going to change. I think that we can show that when presented in a particular fashion, we can rise above the need for moderation on many things. It just requires restraint, self-control, and for some maybe the hide feature. Hope things are well with all.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 5:10:04 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you Orion.

Showing that was secondary purpose of the thread.

If we can do it in a thread about race et al, then we can do it about anything.  Most of us have been able to actually discuss the issue.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 11:24:16 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline 		NakisisaX?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 11:30:42 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		dude.. you DO realize this is a MESSAGE board and NOT a CHATROOM.. replies may take a while..

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 1:57:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Obviously not Greedy... lol

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 8:15:14 PM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

dude.. you DO realize this is a MESSAGE board and NOT a CHATROOM.. replies may take a while..

Yes, I do. Your point being? That I should post a name just for the case? That I should not post after one day when the other answers required few hours? That it simply annoys you to see my face when I post? That you cannot let a posting with one single name be and you have to start trolling?
Anyway - better hidden. Bye.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 10/7/2011 8:21:40 PM >

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 10:18:21 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

dude.. you DO realize this is a MESSAGE board and NOT a CHATROOM.. replies may take a while..


Or that person isn't interested in debating with someone whose agenda seems to rather...hmmm...one-sided? ;)

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 10:22:22 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Anyway - better hidden. Bye.


Greedy, I bet you're all broken up over that one. :D

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/7/2011 11:57:56 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Membership is. Which is decided by each Sovereign nation, to its own standards.

If you are refering to tribes, they are not sovereign nations, as they exists according to US law, and hence they accept and depend (legally) on a superior law, the one of the  US, which is a sovereign nation because it does not exist depending (legally) on anything else (like the UN, for example).
I must insist on this. Souvereignity implies that there is no superior level.



you got some screwy law there.

the US "acknowledges" the sovereignty of the indians within the trust as well as the under the law of nations.

Sovereignty has not a thing to do with "granted" authority.

There are several levels of sovereignty, wrong again.

Every man woman and child are born sovereign in the US.

quote:

"...at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people; and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects...with none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty." CHISHOLM v. GEORGIA (US) 2 Dall 419, 454, 1 L Ed 440, 455 @DALL 1793 pp471-472 <-- since you are obviously not familiar with america that is a ruling court case that has never been over turned.



I dont know where you are from but if you aint sovereign then you are some level of slave, there is no in between.

Of course the greater majority of americans have no fucking clue what htat means and the true power they have in law if they every learn how to exercise it.

As I said: Every man woman and child are born sovereign in the US.  (and I insist backed by the court)

May want to brush up on your law over the next 40 years.

Oh and btw; ownership implies it yours, well guess again, what it implies and what it is, is 2 different things.

Ownership is "right to rent" LOL






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/8/2011 12:05:04 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 12:39:24 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakisisaX

Morality "should" never be taken out of the equation on learning about self. To me, cultural/ethnic survival is just as important as physical/biological. No indigenous peoples want their history to die out so they ingrain it in their children, because its tied into the biological survival.(What do we hunt, how do we hunt, what else do we eat etc) For the question of why some origins are deemed more important over others, well, thats easy. If mine is hidden or a result of misinformation, than mine takes priority automatically to clear it up. Period.
We're speaking english and since it isn't my mother tongue, your question should be directed to those that imposed it all who don't have english heritage. Its about survival and I can understand that, so in response to that I see nothing wrong with doing the same thing but the difference is me having to unravel the lies told about my history so that others can impose and hype theirs. In reality, I don't have to downplay anyone else's history/culture. It usually speaks for itself.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakisisaX
I'd rather learn about my origins first than to dive into someone else's, especially if that someone else puts theirs at the forefront by force and adds fantasy to it for their benefit.

... which happens often enough, yes, I know.
My problem was with your "should". "You should...". That looked for me like a moral rule, and it confused me because it was hard for me to justify it in moral terms. Justify why the origins (and some of them) are more important than other things, for example, or why a certain granularity (tribe, language...) is less important that other (subcontinent, continent...). If you establish a moral rule ("people should do this, this is good, the opposite is bad") then you have to justify it, IMO.
But if it is a taste, like when I say "men should wear ties more often", then it is ok. You are then not speaking about a real moral obligation, and hence you do not have to support it. Everybody like what she likes.
That was the point.





right!

its carrying forward of the first government (the family you were born into), traditions.   America as usual usurped the right to worship your God in that you can only pay your God lip service.

If you religion requires anything that is not in conformance with statutory civil roman law to bad, you get fined or jailed or both for practicing the tenants of your religion among like members that which the constitution was INTENDED to protect before they stole it from you.

Granted in america they are not allowed to "establish" a religion but the crack pots pushing atheist agendas got the courts not even to recognize ones religion or religion at all.

Again some shit different day, the US steals your rights that they are the TRUSTEES and sworn to protect.




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 10/8/2011 12:41:25 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to NakisisaX)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 1:00:03 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster


1. A person (for example: you) belongs to many different cultures at the same time. Some are cultures defined by geography, some by ascendant, occupation, way of life (urbanite / rural), hobbies, kinks (BDSM culture), etc, etc, etc. There are almost infinite criteria.

Do you agree with this?

Wrong, culture is singular, people "create" culture, not the other way around the way you are claiming, you got it backwards.

The people who claim whatever group of elements as their "culture" singular, not the elements of various cultures claiming the people.

This is a great example of what I preach on that kids now days are being taught everything backwards..

2. Even within the geographical and/or genetic, there are many possible divisions. You can divide by planet (yep), continent, subcontinent, area, region, province/State, municipality, or even part of the city (Beverly Hills subculture). You can divide by huge (African), big (Chinese), middle-sized (Illirian culture), small (Sicilian subculture) or tiny "clades" of ancestors. There are almost infinite levels of granularity.

Do you agree with this?

NO

geographic location has nothing to do with culture.  

you may want to start with an understanding of the definition of "culture"


quote:

Culture is a definition highly misunderstood and misused, thus the need for an explanation:

Culture refers to the following Ways of Life, including but not limited to:

   Language : the oldest human institution and the most sophisticated medium of expression.
   
   Arts & Sciences : the most advanced and refined forms of human expression.
   
   Thought : the ways in which people perceive, interpret, and understand the world around them.
   
   Spirituality : the value system transmitted through generations for the inner well-being of human beings, expressed through language and actions.
   
   Social activity : the shared pursuits within a cultural community, demonstrated in a variety of festivities and life-celebrating events.
   
   Interaction : the social aspects of human contact, including the give-and-take of socialization, negotiation, protocol, and conventions.

The behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group.


All of the above collectively define the meaning of Culture.



your whole premise is fundamentally flawed


3. Providing you agree with (1) and (2): How can you possibly say, that it is morally better for a person to concentrate on ONE kind of culture in ONE level of granularity, as in any other?

All morals are not created equal.

----------

I will ask the same in another way now. Feel free to ignore one of the two presentations completely.

ok

snip ~  ignored

Thank you again.



any time


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 1:34:54 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

Anyway - better hidden. Bye.


Greedy, I bet you're all broken up over that one. :D



yeah, lemme go grab a beer so I can cry into it....

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 1:38:48 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I am not reading a word of this thread. But all these altruistic bullshit ideas that must be around here are held so dear by all ain't they ? Well guess what, when the shit hits the fan then it's the clan. I don't mean the fucking KKK, I mean your family. When you are thrust into a world in which you have no idea who to trust you WILL gravitate towards those of similar ethnicity and background to yours.

Only a fucking liar would deny it, or a fool. Your choice.

T^T^T

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 1:42:40 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline 		*LOL*

See? I knew it would affect you profoundly. :D

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 1:44:24 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

I am not reading a word of this thread. But all these altruistic bullshit ideas that must be around here are held so dear by all ain't they ? Well guess what, when the shit hits the fan then it's the clan. I don't mean the fucking KKK, I mean your family. When you are thrust into a world in which you have no idea who to trust you WILL gravitate towards those of similar ethnicity and background to yours.

Only a fucking liar would deny it, or a fool. Your choice.

T^T^T


Calm down, your "T"'s are multiplying. :D

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 2:26:59 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Only a fucking liar would deny it, or a fool. Your choice.

I deny it. I am no liar nor a fool. Your choice to believe it or not.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II - 10/8/2011 2:29:04 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Only a fucking liar would deny it, or a fool. Your choice.

I deny it.


I am no liar nor a fool.


I'd say that's up for debate.


_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to SpanishMatMaster)
Profile   Post #: 160
Page:   <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Race, Ethnicity, Language and Guilt - Take II Page: <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109