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ORIGINAL: luckydawg

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The 16th fundamentally took away taxation-representation guarenteed in the original constitution, so they could have the south pay war reparations. it has been extended in meaning since.

Mnot often concedes by writing silly nonsense like this. It doesn't mean anything, its just non grammatical jibberish.

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The 14th Amendment includes a clause to prevent the US from paying war reparations TO the South.

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But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

hmmmmmmmm.....nothing prohibiting an income tax, a flat tax or a tax on the size of your ass or lie or pretense.

Only a power to lay (impose) and collect (as in give me my fuckin money) .....

1861 there was an income tax. the 16th amendment was not ratified until like what? 1910?

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ORIGINAL: luckydawg

It doesn't mean anything, its just non grammatical jibberish

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ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

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The 14th Amendment includes a clause to prevent the US from paying war reparations TO the South.

Not the way I read it. there is a clause saying that the USA won't pay any debts incurred by the CSA, but nothing to do with war reparations to the south.

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But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

I agree that Ron is off base regarding the reasoning for the 16th amendment, it was proposed in 1909, quite a while after the Civil War. The original income tax in 1861 <which expired in 1866> was to fund the war, but there was no attempt to make the south pay for it or anything like that, as far as I can find, the next income tax was passed in 1894.

My understanding is that it was passed because the SC had ruled <1895> the form of income tax instituted in 1894 unconstitutional, so the amendment was proposed and passed <1909> and finally ratified <1913> in order to allow that form of income tax. The issue has to do with if a tax is considered a direct or indirect tax and how it is apportioned, if at all.

This is an example of how the Constitution and system is supposed to work. A provision of the original is found to be impractical, so an amendment is made.

Edit: I LOVE these sorts of discussions about the Constitution. [:D]

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debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States" is referring specifically to the costs the South incurred in the Civil War.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

That said, a proper education could certainly be free. The internet could have every college textbook uploaded to it and accessible by every person on the planet, for free. This would cost almost nothing to do. .

1. No one would write textbooks.
2. Very few can learn from books only, and even fewer can learn from books only without the motivation and structure of a school.
3. Proving your knowledge in order to get hired would be extremely difficult.

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ORIGINAL: luckydawg

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

hmmmmmmmm.....nothing prohibiting an income tax, a flat tax or a tax on the size of your ass or lie or pretense.

Only a power to lay (impose) and collect (as in give me my fuckin money) .....

1861 there was an income tax. the 16th amendment was not ratified until like what? 1910?

actually the income tax was ruled unconstitutional by the USSC in 1895.

"1868, Congress again focused its taxation efforts on tobacco and distilled spirits and eliminated the income tax in 1872. It had a short-lived revival in 1894 and 1895. In the latter year, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations. In fiscal year 1918, annual internal revenue collections for the first time passed the billion-dollar mark, rising to $5.4 billion by 1920. With the advent of World War II, employment increased, as did tax collections—to $7.3 billion. The withholding tax on wages was introduced in 1943 and was instrumental in increasing the number of taxpayers to 60 million and tax collections to $43 billion by 1945.


Read more: History of the Income Tax in the United States — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html#ixzz1Zx6ZN7wr


No 16th, no income tax, so no flat tax.


Your welcome for the education BTW.

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From Rushlimbaugh.com:

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Idiotic Demands of the Wall Street Protestors


Proposed list of demands for the Occupy Wall Street movement.

..."Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending 'Freetrade' by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market ... Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals ... Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment." Why even go to school? Why care about education and why worry about employment if you're demanding "a guaranteed living wage"? "Demand number four: Free college education." Why? Why do you need free college education? If you're gonna get a living wage and you don't have to work, why go to college? Let's just ban college.


Full transcript here

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Sooo, someone on the left thinks that Right wing media cherry picking to make the opposition look dumb is wrong.

I bet those on the Right also think that cherry picking by those in Left wing media to make them look dumb is wrong too.


This is supposed to be news?

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


Try again -  someone on the left (SURPRISE!!!) states that freedom of the press is a crime.

Dissent is a crime.

Old news, I know... been this way since before Stalin

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Sooo, someone on the left thinks that Right wing media cherry picking to make the opposition look dumb is wrong.

I bet those on the Right also think that cherry picking by those in Left wing media to make them look dumb is wrong too.


This is supposed to be news?

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Just for you Sanity