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RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/14/2011 6:57:05 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You said

No, Polite, I asked. Perhaps there was an edge of irritation in the question, but it was a question. Unlike many non US posters who seem to believe that they are experts on current affairs and attitudes in my country, I make no such claims about yours. Nor do I view your politics as an amusing soap opera, or sports teams to be backed, right down to the soccer riot. I'd love to come partake of your tourist industry someday (not likely soon, in this economy), but I figure your internal affairs are your own. Your comment to Sanity isn't the first time you've engaged on race issues in US politics, and it isn't the first time I've questioned where you might be coming from in making them.

So I asked, and the answer seems to be, there are a few, here and there, and some remote exotic strains in the royal bloodline. Ken wants to chirp about Disraeli, Lucy has elected representatives. And it seems to be a touchy issue. I wasn't expecting to hear that it was aparteid. You have to admit though, bringing up one of Henry VIII's victims... err, wives, was a pretty funny example.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 201

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/14/2011 8:30:07 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I asked specifically for this board for a reason Firm
Im well aware that lefties can be racist, I wasnt born yesterday.
Im talking about Racists here and how you ignore them until they are lefties.
then you tar allwith the same brush
how intellectually dishonest can you be?? nah dont bother I really dont wanna know.

but you got that confirmation bias goin on...thats for sure

Well, Lucy, if you wish for me to name the posters that I find bigoted, I do have a few. They seem to cross the divide, but more often I'd class them as moderate to left to wacko-crazy-not-either-side-of-the-divide.

Do you really think it will somehow make an interesting conversations for me to call names? Or just fan the flames?

Also, I have a difficult time calling anyone a "racist". I prefer the term "bigoted" for various reasons, but one prime reason is that it's not often that someone would actually be "racist" against a specific race. I do believe that anyone who believes that "white people" are automatically "racists" due to their skin color are bigots and racist themselves, by de facto declaration.

Another reason that it would be rare for me to determine that someone is "racist" is because that (as I have said repeatedly) is also often a term used to silence a political opponent.

If you are attempting to "trap me" somehow, by saying that I don't call any "righties" racist, then I'd just say that there are enough bogus claims that I really have no fear of actual black-against-white racism escaping the quick and nimble observations of our "left-of" forum friends.

Now, racism and bigotry against Jews, against whites, against Christians? Many don't seem to notice much/any of that stuff.

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 202

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/14/2011 8:45:23 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They may have, I havent seen it (alot of honest discussion from the right).

I see alot of things that are clearly lies that are being passed off as truth and how much honest discourse or consideration do I owe to that. I don't.

Well, that kinda puts you in the same position that more and more of "the right" find themselves, I'd think. That's their perspective, anyway, so I do understand your position.

I guess the question is one of method, intent and anticipation.

Several times over the last few years, I've declared or agreed that some things should be "off limits" in terms of a discussion (calling people "nazis" for example), but that I no longer advocate that anyone on the right honor such a ban during debate, since I believe such forbearance has been debased by our "political opponents". And that restricting ourselves to just high-minded methods benefited us little. The bad often seems to drive out the good.

However, on occasion, and by temperament, I generally try to simply ignore much of the crap and stick to the specific issue under discussion, and actually address that issue. I often ignore a lot of the petty BS that may go along with it, and am sometimes able to open a bridge of communications.

It's difficult with some posters, because they only attribute bad motives to anyone who disagrees with them. So sometimes I'll slap them upside the head (figuratively) to try to get their attention and prove I can "play their game" if that is what they want. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And that comes with the individual, you and I don't get into shitfits.

No, we don't, anymore.

But we have in the past, haven't we? It took us a while to get there ... and effort on both our parts, with an assumption that the other person wasn't operating from evil motives, even if we strongly disagreed.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/14/2011 8:46:03 PM >

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Post #: 203

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 3:20:38 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No, Polite, I asked. Perhaps there was an edge of irritation in the question, but it was a question. Unlike many non US posters who seem to believe that they are experts on current affairs and attitudes in my country, I make no such claims about yours. Nor do I view your politics as an amusing soap opera, or sports teams to be backed, right down to the soccer riot. I'd love to come partake of your tourist industry someday (not likely soon, in this economy), but I figure your internal affairs are your own. Your comment to Sanity isn't the first time you've engaged on race issues in US politics, and it isn't the first time I've questioned where you might be coming from in making them.

To answer your question ( and I am not trying to get into a pissing contest )
There have been plenty of prominent coloureds in the history of the UK. Equiano ( cant remember his first name) sailed with Nelson to explore the artic and was also on the famous "Passage to India" exploration. He was also the first coloured to hold a prominet job in the government, sometime in the 1880s. Ignatius Sancho the first coloured man to be given the vote 1775-ish, did so before white working class men had the same right prior to the reform act of the early eighteen thirties. Slavery was abolished within the UK in 1777. One of our top reformers was a former slave, whose autobiography inspired the reformists. I dont absolve the part britain played in slavery, nor have I hid the fact that the UK contains many racists.

Modern day politicians are numerous, including Baroness Scotland, former attorney general ( Top UK law post ) Paul Boateng, Oonah King, Baroness Amos Baroness Warsi have all held top political posts.

I am unsure if your remarks about non US posters are aimed at me, but I will reply just incase. I just call it as I see it, there have been times I have pointed out racist remarks from other posters as well as stuff reported in the msm. I have also pulled people up for suggesting all Americans are racist.

As for my remarks to other posters, again I call it as I see it, be it about race, health, finance, politics, thats what the forum is for. What I have never done is remarked on stuff I dont know about, like the political nuances pertaining to the US.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 204

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 7:39:48 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They may have, I havent seen it (alot of honest discussion from the right).

I see alot of things that are clearly lies that are being passed off as truth and how much honest discourse or consideration do I owe to that. I don't.

Well, that kinda puts you in the same position that more and more of "the right" find themselves, I'd think. That's their perspective, anyway, so I do understand your position.

So, simple enough, there have been numerous reports, from varied sources with different sources including high level officials within the W administration that he knowingly, willfully, actively and with malice aforethought, and with reams of intel to the contrary, (and absolutely no fucking afterthought) invaded Iraq under false pretenses, misleading the American people, and spilling our blood and robbing our treasure.

The discourses and proofs have been provided ad nauseam.

There is wholesale ostriching of this issue on the right.

So, rather than focus on the a priori causations, we are now being regaled with stories of how the right has been stymied in their vigourous efforts to put america back to work by such bills as H.R. 872, Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act of 2011, which is a bill that fundamentally bans federal permit processes that restrict the efforts of businesses to dump pesticides, insecticides and rodenticides into our drinking water.

So, by poisoning our drinking water, america can be employed?

Same on the bill to increase mercury dumping. Same on corporate appeasement and taxation.

And so on ad nauseam.

So, what honest appraisal and consideration do I owe here?

The right is (and has been for a very long time) interested in investing corporations with the rights of people, without also investing them with a consience.

This is and has been a lifelong anathema to me. I own a business and am an LLC. Lets not muddy waters and act confused and offended (this is directed at the 'conservatives' here not at you Firm) about what type of business I am talking about, it is selbstverständlich.

I could go on, but the frustration is that it never ends, and what we get out here, is the 'intellectual' notion from the right that they are engaging in
honest discussion regarding significant issues when they run such asswipe at us as some out of context and mangling of a flight of fancy that George Soros is bankrolling the OWS, and therefore that makes it of dubious quality, when I can make a causal case just as airtight that Adolph Hitler has bankrolled the teaparty.

That is far from honest discussion of the situations and the needs and the direction of america.

ehhhhh...thats enough of it for now.

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Post #: 205

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 8:33:41 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I asked specifically for this board for a reason Firm
Im well aware that lefties can be racist, I wasnt born yesterday.
Im talking about Racists here and how you ignore them until they are lefties.
then you tar allwith the same brush
how intellectually dishonest can you be?? nah dont bother I really dont wanna know.

but you got that confirmation bias goin on...thats for sure

Ignoring racists like these, Lucy? I keep waiting for someone to explain to me how this isnt a swazstika and how Pelosi lied about seeing them.

We know they will continue to ignore it. And I will continue to post it.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 206

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 10:22:43 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ignoring racists like these, Lucy? I keep waiting for someone to explain to me how this isnt a swazstika and how Pelosi lied about seeing them.

We know they will continue to ignore it. And I will continue to post it.

It's been explained, and you ignore the explanations.

Such as your belief that the attached graphic somehow means that the protesters holding that sign are "pro-swastika". In reality, they are just the opposite.

Yet, here you are yet again, gleefully spreading the meme that "conservatives", "TEA Partiers" and any one on the right is in bed with Nazi beliefs.

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 207

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 10:30:49 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I asked specifically for this board for a reason Firm
Im well aware that lefties can be racist, I wasnt born yesterday.
Im talking about Racists here and how you ignore them until they are lefties.
then you tar allwith the same brush
how intellectually dishonest can you be?? nah dont bother I really dont wanna know.

but you got that confirmation bias goin on...thats for sure

Ignoring racists like these, Lucy? I keep waiting for someone to explain to me how this isnt a swazstika and how Pelosi lied about seeing them.

We know they will continue to ignore it. And I will continue to post it.

Firm is ok with this shit.

He doesn`t see anything wrong when someone sports a swazstika.

Oh,wait,they`re not holding the signs the way neo-nazis do,in support of hitler.

They`re bringing the signs,calling Pelosi,the president and others, nazis.

Wow,.............that makes ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the difference....

..... MY ASS!

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President Obama

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Post #: 208

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 10:34:46 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Where are the pictures from, what is the source? There were others mixing in with the Tea Partiers, from leftist infiltrators to John Birchers who are to the left of most Democrats

There are also a few fringe crazies in any large group, and the Tea Party rallies were huge

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Post #: 209

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 10:38:07 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

And THERE'S the "Victim Card", ladies and gentlemen...

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 210

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 10:54:29 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Where are the pictures from, what is the source? There were others mixing in with the Tea Partiers, from leftist infiltrators to John Birchers who are to the left of most Democrats

There are also a few fringe crazies in any large group, and the Tea Party rallies were huge

Were the people at Pelosi`s townhall infiltrators?

I think you broke the pathetic meter.

Just you guys trying to deny, hide and skirt this is fucked up.

What`s your excuse for enabling this shit?

Giving aid,comfort and cover to these disgusting people......

Fail!

Cantor Says Tea Party's Dachau Photos 'Inappropriate,' Takes Issue With Limbaugh

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 211

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 10:56:54 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Firm is ok with this shit.

He doesn`t see anything wrong when someone sports a swazstika.

Oh,wait,they`re not holding the signs the way neo-nazis do,in support of hitler.

They`re bringing the signs,calling Pelosi,the president and others, nazis.

Wow,.............that makes ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the difference......... MY ASS!

*shrugs*

As I've said before, the left seems to be fine with calling their opponents Nazi's. I no longer have much of a problem when the right throws it back into their face.

But ... for this discussion, I'm glad that you recognize that the protesters aren't supporting Nazism ... just calling out what they see as "facism" on the part of the left.

Which is a world's different than what tazzy keeps saying i.e. that the protesters are in support of Nazis.

You are making a valid argument, Owner. She is not.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 212

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 11:12:42 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Firm is ok with this shit.

He doesn`t see anything wrong when someone sports a swazstika.

Oh,wait,they`re not holding the signs the way neo-nazis do,in support of hitler.

They`re bringing the signs,calling Pelosi,the president and others, nazis.

Wow,.............that makes ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the difference......... MY ASS!

*shrugs*

As I've said before, the left seems to be fine with calling their opponents Nazi's. I no longer have much of a problem when the right throws it back into their face.

But ... for this discussion, I'm glad that you recognize that the protesters aren't supporting Nazism ... just calling out what they see as "facism" on the part of the left.

Which is a world's different than what tazzy keeps saying i.e. that the protesters are in support of Nazis.

You are making a valid argument, Owner. She is not.

Firm

You may have won that point.

We`re winning the point of who`s party is more full of hate.

Bringing swazstikas and calling people nazis(if they are not)is a very hateful and purposely hurtful thing.

We know who the tea-party is.It`s the activist right.The 17% who still thought shrub was a good pres.It`s the GOP.They married and made it official last year.

The leaders,Limbaugh,the Koch brothers and Glenn Beck....errr um Rupert Murdoch and we know why your party and media outlet,fux,is repeating the words and showing the images......over and over and over.....

It isn`t love.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2011 11:57:46 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Post #: 213

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 11:38:36 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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I never said they were supporting Nazi's. In fact, Firm stated Pelosi was calling them Nazi's because she stated saw swatstikas at events. Seeing a swat and saying so isnt calling anyone a Nazi. No more than saying I went to a white sheet sale at Kohl's is saying I saw a bunch of Clan members.

Accordind to Fox news, the Tea Party agreed with Pelosi that they (the Tea Party) also saw the signs and denounced them.

Since Sanity missed it on the last two threads...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/11/tea-party-rallies-cauldron-conspiracy-theories/

quote:

Going further, swastikas, as well as pictures of Obama's face next to Adolf Hitler's, have appeared on signs at dozens of rallies blasting the president and the Democrat-controlled Congress.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3875847

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 214

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 11:46:46 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

True Firm.

When I posted about hank-junior getting rightfully canned,you brought up Pelosi`s comment, as if it was equivalent.

Pelosi was calling them out for being 1st class jack-asses and somehow it was spun into her calling others nazis....

Weak.....

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/15/2011 11:49:16 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 215

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 11:46:53 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

We`re winning the point of who`s party is more full of hate.

So you've acknowledged that Dems are full of it, then. Care to move on to the why? That you have nothing to be for, in the administration you helped bring to power? That the President cannot unite, cannot persuade, cannot get the job done? That 2008 represented the greatest opportunity in decades for Democrats to move their agenda forward, and instead, you squandered it on a huckster salesman with a slick pitch, and no substance who is only going to damage your brand as badly as Bush did the Republicans?

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 216

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 11:51:35 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Why what?

It`s your dopey premicse/OP.

_____________________________

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President Obama

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Post #: 217

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 11:59:09 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I never said they were supporting Nazi's. In fact, Firm stated Pelosi was calling them Nazi's because she stated saw swatstikas at events. Seeing a swat and saying so isnt calling anyone a Nazi. No more than saying I went to a white sheet sale at Kohl's is saying I saw a bunch of Clan members.

Don't you get tired of straining at gnats?

What was Pelosi's intent, when asked if the TEA party demonstrations were "astro-turfed" or not? She says (basically) ... "I don't know, but there have been swastika's seen at them.".

So, what did she mean? It's pretty obvious what she was calling the TEA party groups: funded (astro-turfed) by people or organizations which supported Nazi symbolism. Who might that be, ya think?

Gee, maybe it was the Girl Scouts? Nahhh ...

How about the Catholic Church? hmm, no, not likely ...

Green Peace? Minneapolis Polka Club?

Let me know when you have the answer that everyone else understood immediately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Accordind to Fox news, the Tea Party agreed with Pelosi that they (the Tea Party) also saw the signs and denounced them.

Since Sanity missed it on the last two threads...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/11/tea-party-rallies-cauldron-conspiracy-theories/

quote:

Going further, swastikas, as well as pictures of Obama's face next to Adolf Hitler's, have appeared on signs at dozens of rallies blasting the president and the Democrat-controlled Congress.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3875847

So? Good for Fox et al who denounced using the same tactic and technique that the left has honed and owned for going on nay 65 years.

But, as I said to Owner above, and before, in several threads (SpinnerOfTale's "Could we kindly cut the nazi/communist crap?" for example), I have been radicalized by the left.

Although perhaps not in the way that they approve of, exactly.

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Firm

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Post #: 218

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 12:09:34 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I asked specifically for this board for a reason Firm
Im well aware that lefties can be racist, I wasnt born yesterday.
Im talking about Racists here and how you ignore them until they are lefties.
then you tar allwith the same brush
how intellectually dishonest can you be?? nah dont bother I really dont wanna know.

but you got that confirmation bias goin on...thats for sure

Well, Lucy, if you wish for me to name the posters that I find bigoted, I do have a few. They seem to cross the divide, but more often I'd class them as moderate to left to wacko-crazy-not-either-side-of-the-divide.

Do you really think it will somehow make an interesting conversations for me to call names? Or just fan the flames?

Also, I have a difficult time calling anyone a "racist". I prefer the term "bigoted" for various reasons, but one prime reason is that it's not often that someone would actually be "racist" against a specific race. I do believe that anyone who believes that "white people" are automatically "racists" due to their skin color are bigots and racist themselves, by de facto declaration.

Another reason that it would be rare for me to determine that someone is "racist" is because that (as I have said repeatedly) is also often a term used to silence a political opponent.

If you are attempting to "trap me" somehow, by saying that I don't call any "righties" racist, then I'd just say that there are enough bogus claims that I really have no fear of actual black-against-white racism escaping the quick and nimble observations of our "left-of" forum friends.

Now, racism and bigotry against Jews, against whites, against Christians? Many don't seem to notice much/any of that stuff.

Firm

not trying to trap you into anything, not trying to make you "do" anything, enjoying watching you backpedal tho.
Thankyou
PS I actually did not expect you to name names on the forum.
You only named Sanity because you werent attacking him, there is email you could have sent me to prove you are capable of non conformation bias, but you wriggling about is all I needed to see.You can dish it, but you cant take it.
You were acting like a prefect, asking me to tone it down due to the new "rules" yet you have ignored any ranting by the others.
I have satisfied an itch, you were my backscratcher, thankyou.

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\(•_•)
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Dont Hate Love

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 219

RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate - 10/15/2011 12:23:13 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

not trying to trap you into anything, not trying to make you "do" anything, enjoying watching you backpedal tho.
Thankyou
PS I actually did not expect you to name names on the forum.
You only named Sanity because you werent attacking him, there is email you could have sent me to prove you are capable of non conformation bias, but you wriggling about is all I needed to see.You can dish it, but you cant take it.
You were acting like a prefect, asking me to tone it down due to the new "rules" yet you have ignored any ranting by the others.
I have satisfied an itch, you were my backscratcher, thankyou.

Lots here. If I miss something you think important, please let me know.

First, I haven't told anyone in this thread what "they have to do". I recommended to mike that he consider a different strategy on posting to and about Sanity. He declined.

I've told Polite that he is incorrect to call Sanity a racist, for various reasons.

I've said that the left is more facile and likely to use the "race card" or "race baiting" than is the right, but we are now in a position to skewer them on their own petard (I know, mixed metaphors, but it sounds good ...).

You've asked me to name any "right" forum members who I believe are racist, and I declined - for good reason, I believe, and explained.

I didn't "name" Sanity as a racist: quite the opposite, in fact.

If you wanted a private email, then I'd suggest that you could have sent me one first, or suggested in your response that one would be appropriate. But you didn't, you apparently were more interested in making it a "public flogging", yourself.

So ... I'm not sure where I am exactly "backpedaling"

But ... if you are happy, Lucy, so am I.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 220

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why the Democrats are so full of hate

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