RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders

RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (Full Version)

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xxblushesxx -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 9:27:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yourdarkdesire I never said the school admin made the wrong decision - I have no problem with it. My problem is people like you trying to sexualize everything! And btw - I happen to have a teenage boy - and he has no problem with the shirts or the message - because he understands the MESSAGE its just sad that you have to underestimate people because of your little hangups Excuse me, but why does this have to be a value judgment? Some of us don't think young people should be wearing such things while representing their school, and others think it's just fine. It helps me to remember that sometimes when my dd says to me "but mom...everyone else is...(whatever it is they're all doing)" that some people actually are. Calling others names because they don't agree with you does not help advance your argument however.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 9:39:14 PM)
quote: Calling others names because they don't agree with you does not help advance your argument however. Nor does constantly telling people who disagree with you that they aren't old enough to understand, one of the biddy brigade's favorite tactics. And as far as simply disagreeing, well that is something I could accept, but in this case every single argument put forward by the anti side is based on nothing, every reason that has been offered as justification has been either fallacious, patently unrealistic, or one based on cowardice or simple snobbishness and prudery. None of those things is, in my opinion, worthy of any respect.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 9:47:13 PM)
I never said anything about anyone's age. In fact, you're the one who brings up age in almost every discussion when others disagree with you. And how do you know what the reasons behind others' decisions are? So now I (and the others who disagree with your assertions) are either what? Fallacious, unrealistic, cowardly, snobby or a prude because their ideas are different from yours? (talk about name-calling...you hit that one out of the ballpark.) That's one way to close down a discussion. Everyone else is just too narrow minded to realize that my way is the only way. If you disagree with me you must be... (insert insulting term here)[8\|][:-] ETA: biddy brigade? I just caught that one. Cute. I'll start knitting booties as soon as I can figure out how to knit.

littlewonder -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 9:50:50 PM)
what about the ones who said they have sons and daughters your age who also find the idea of such tshirts to be innapropriate? Are they old biddies as well? Are they snobs for not agreeing with your views? Just curious.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 9:55:47 PM)
quote: Are they old biddies as well? Are they snobs for not agreeing with your views? No either they are lying, or the kids are only telling them what they want to hear. Personally my opinion leans towards the former.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:02:15 PM)
quote: So now I (and the others who disagree with your assertions) are either what? Fallacious, unrealistic, cowardly, snobby or a prude because their ideas are different from yours? (talk about name-calling...you hit that one out of the ballpark.) I said every rationale for the shirts being inappropriate has been one of those things, and they have. If you want your opinion to be treated with any respect, then back it up with something valid, otherwise I just don't buy it, sorry. If you don't want your opinion challenged, don't back it up with garbage. If it's just a gut reaction, just say so, but don't expect me to buy whatever make-believe hokum you dream up to justify that gut reaction to yourself.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:02:25 PM)
Do you REALLY believe that every single person your age thinks exactly the way you do? If they don't they're lying?

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:03:46 PM)
That's funny. I used to say when I was 21, that I would commit suicide rather than turn 40. I changed my mind. quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker I plan to get hit by a bus at age 34.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:08:17 PM)
No, but I do know the odds. And I was asked my opinion of the stories of the people who said their kids all agreed with them. Sorry, I just don't buy it, because anytime they dust off their kids' opinions, the kids miraculously agree with them 100%. That to me simply says there is a degree of creativity being taken either in the answers given, or in relating the answers. In short, I don't believe, for example, Angel even asked her niece, I am quite certain that that is just a bold faced lie.

littlewonder -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:16:00 PM)
huh..funny. People who meet my daughter are always amazed by how much more conservative she is than to her mother. This is the girl that would rather quit college, get married and have 4 children if it wasn't for me forcing her to stay in college. This is the girl that gets up at 7am to drive two hours twice a week to her college classes and is only 20 years old. The last thing she cares about is lying to her mother because she has no reason to since she doesn't rely on mom for a single thing in her life. But hey if you wanna believe that all young ones think exactly the same as you then so be it. I think one day you may be a little surprised by your views.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:24:04 PM)
Well, I will say the girls in this case probably learned a valuable lesson about dealing with petty bureaucrats, like school officials. Bureaucrats will always choose form over substance. This cheer leading group wanted to raise money to fight a deadly disease,that more than likely has touched at least some of their lives. And the school made them feel tawdry about their good intentions. But I guess one is never too young to learn about how these things work. High school have real problems. Like quote: At my daughter's school you had a metal detector wand waved over you for guns and if you were a known druggie you were searched for drugs. They also have metal detectors installed in the doorways and doors are locked as soon as you enter and you had to buzz to be allowed in. Cameras were also installed in classrooms and hallways and exterior. Nice. Or the fact that Arizona consistently ranks as a state with one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the nation, coming in fifth in 2005. And the fact that Arizona's high-school graduation rate has risen more than 8 percentage points over 10 years, but it still trails the national average, according to a new report that examined national education trends. And high schools are worried about slogans on t shirts? Talk about worrying about trivia while things are going to hell. There was nothing overtly sexual about this slogan. Nor is it more likely to drive teenage boys into "grope mode" than the average cheer leading outfit, bloomers or not. I doubt any boy in that school is more likely to grope some girl because she was wearing that T shirt than they are to pat her ass because she is wearing a short skirt with her panties hanging out. As long as it was OK with the girls and their parents, I think the school's decision was ridiculous. Now if a particular girl or her parents decided it was inappropriate, like some of you have indicated you or your kids would, than that is a different story. But I didn't see anything that indicated that the girls were required to wear this shirt.

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:30:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet That's funny. I used to say when I was 21, that I would commit suicide rather than turn 40. I changed my mind. quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker I plan to get hit by a bus at age 34. Oh it's not suicide. That's how life is dealt with here on the mean streets of Toronto!

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:30:20 PM)
quote: I think one day you may be a little surprised by your views. In 20 years?[:D] Look,, your daughter may indeed be the arch conservative you are painting her in this thread, but I just don't believe it, my gut tells me you're making it up.

littlewonder -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:31:57 PM)
lol ok

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:32:20 PM)
Canada sounds like a scary place quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker Oh it's not suicide. That's how life is dealt with here on the mean streets of Toronto!

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 10:32:49 PM)
quote: form over substance And that, is the basis of all the objections to the slogan.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 11:01:20 PM)
That's your opinion. There were some well thought out arguments brought to the table here. One person's in particular who is near your age was very eloquent and made good points. But of course you call their arguments (any number of names) and discount them. Do your professors let you dismiss things by calling them fallacious, cowardly, etc. or are you made to give valid and reasonable arguments? This isn't a class assignment, but addressing other peoples' points rather than dismissing them makes for a much more interesting discussion and helps to further understanding on both sides. I've actually changed my views on some things given a proper argument and some time to think it over. That will never happen when the only thing you're saying is "I'm right, you're old, shut up."

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 11:11:44 PM)
quote: There were some well thought out arguments brought to the table here. Not on the anti side of the discussion there hasn't been, which is my whole point. The fact that you agree with the sentiment expressed doesn't make the argument valid well thought out. quote: but addressing other peoples' points I, and others, have. And what we said was dismissed, when I continue to make the same arguments to challenge the same points over and over, I am accused of taking over the thread or of being pig headed because I don't see the "truth" of the views I disagree with. yet those who continue to repeat the same points over and over despite the evidence presnted to show that their views are faulty are somehow not pig headed, usually the final rationale offered is that they are older and know better. Or somebody does what you are doing, attacking the dissenting opinion in the guise of trying to promote tolerance. Now, if there has been an anti viewpoint that hasn't been dealt with by myself or others and shown to be one of the things I mentioned, then please feel free to link to the post and I'll look at it. Otherwise, your post is simply a thinly disguised attempt to dismiss everything i might say.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 11:28:57 PM)
Heather, I've seen you argue your position in other threads, and I've always appreciated the thought and the quality of the argument you make, even when I don't agree with it. But all you're doing now is putting down anyone who dares to disagree with you. Have fun with that. said the old, fallacious, cowardly, etc, etc...

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/17/2011 11:40:09 PM)
quote: But all you're doing now is putting down anyone who dares to disagree with you. You have ignored what I said and have twisted my words in a transparent attempt to discredit my position. And when challenged to actually present one of the supposedly well thought out arguments that haven't been shown to be baseless, rather than admit that you can't, you resort to yet more of the same. Have fun with that.

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