RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (Full Version)

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Endivius -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 2:51:36 AM)

Web cams first came out when I was just getting ready to graduate. They were fairly expensive around 80-100$ to get one, and high speed interenet was still fairly expensive and limited. By the time my brothers graduated 3 years later, high speed internet was everywhere and the cost of web cams had dropped to 30$. By now, most teens have access webcams. They come standard on almost every laptop, and many desktops have them built in as well. It's not extremist or unrealistic to believe that teenagers are expressing themselves sexually online when mom and dad are still at work or down stairs cooking dinner.

As for the shirts, I thought it was a great idea. When I worked retail a while back, everyone wore scarfs for BCA month. The guys looked frooty and felt stupid, but we did it because we genuinely felt it was a good cause. In fact, I used to tell people who asked me why I had on a pink scarf, "It's breast cancer awareness month. I love breasts, save 'em all I say."

The idea that people are actually arguing about how appropriate it is has just gotten sad. The school has allready ruled on it, and that's that. I don't think it's terribly reasonable for them to block it, however I understand the outrage the parents feel.

The true comedy, is that some people think the slogan referencing breasts is in some way lude and going to encourage sexual contact. Are you fucking serious? When I was a teen I got raging hardons doing math for no godamn reason, and here's a shocker, girls got horny too! They don't need a reason, and I'm sure if you really think about it and are honest with yourself; you'll realize this was true for you as it was for every other person on the planet. When you go through puberty hormones go bananas and there isn't a thing you can do to stop it, and if you are under the delusion you can manage hormones and sexuality of teenagers by limiting a few words on a t-shirt you need to take a step down from your pedastal before your over righteous indignation knocks you off balance. Fucking rediculous.



TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:01:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

Web cams first came out when I was just getting ready to graduate. They were fairly expensive around 80-100$ to get one, and high speed interenet was still fairly expensive and limited. By the time my brothers graduated 3 years later, high speed internet was everywhere and the cost of web cams had dropped to 30$. By now, most teens have access webcams. They come standard on almost every laptop, and many desktops have them built in as well. It's not extremist or unrealistic to believe that teenagers are expressing themselves sexually online when mom and dad are still at work or down stairs cooking dinner.

As for the shirts, I thought it was a great idea. When I worked retail a while back, everyone wore scarfs for BCA month. The guys looked frooty and felt stupid, but we did it because we genuinely felt it was a good cause. In fact, I used to tell people who asked me why I had on a pink scarf, "It's breast cancer awareness month. I love breasts, save 'em all I say."

The idea that people are actually arguing about how appropriate it is has just gotten sad. The school has allready ruled on it, and that's that. I don't think it's terribly reasonable for them to block it, however I understand the outrage the parents feel.

The true comedy, is that some people think the slogan referencing breasts is in some way lude and going to encourage sexual contact. Are you fucking serious? When I was a teen I got raging hardons doing math for no godamn reason, and here's a shocker, girls got horny too! They don't need a reason, and I'm sure if you really think about it and are honest with yourself; you'll realize this was true for you as it was for every other person on the planet. When you go through puberty hormones go bananas and there isn't a thing you can do to stop it, and if you are under the delusion you can manage hormones and sexuality of teenagers by limiting a few words on a t-shirt you need to take a step down from your pedastal before your over righteous indignation knocks you off balance. Fucking rediculous.


This. Plus anyone who thinks that their selling the t-shirts to "stick it to the admin" for banning the t-shirts instead of making the best of it and raising the money anyway is just sad. Yeah God forbid they were actually serious about raising money for breast cancer research. God forbid it was all legit and had nothing to do with raging hormones. it would have been ONE game, ONE fundraiser and that's ALL. Even if they DID wear the t-shirts elsewhere, so fucking WHAT. Compared to some of the clothing teenage girls wear those t-shirts are tame. If anything is going to distract teenage boys it's the clothing that barely covers half their bodies, not a freaking T-SHIRT.

Fire



KMsAngel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:16:41 AM)

i've only read up to the beginning of the third page, so forgive me if this has been mentioned already.

my first thought when i saw the slogan was the black eyed peas song, "my humps":
(from Wiki - yeah yeah)
The official music video for "My Humps," directed by Fatima Robinson and Malik Hassan Sayeed, premiered on TRL. It shows Fergie dancing with backup dancers as images of expensive items such as Louis Vuitton purses and jewelry, which is supposed to be the jewelry her men have bought her, appear on the screen. The other members of The Black Eyed Peas — apl.de.ap, Taboo, and will.i.am — sing about how much they spend on Fergie as she sings about her "humps" and "lovely lady lumps." In some vignettes Taboo, Apl.de.ap, and will.i.am are behind women erotically dancing.

"Novelist and composer Jack Heath cited the song and its "objectification of women disguised as empowerment"[3] as his primary inspiration for his 2005 style parody "Don't Stall.""

that's probably more what the shirt represents to concerned administrators and parents, in my opinion. hard enough being a teenage girl in today's media-dictated definition of the ideal female



thishereboi -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:27:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

FFS windchymes did you miss (again) the fact that it would be AT...A...GAME? Or are you deliberately ignoring that? It really doesn't make a difference, they wouldn't be walking around wearing the t-shirts.




Why not? Are they going to have to turn in the shirts at the end of the game? If not, what makes you think they wouldn't wear the shirt again?



TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:29:50 AM)

So WHAT! As I wrote above, compared to some of the clothes teenage girls wear today the t-shirt is incredibly tame. If people are going to be outraged it should be over THAT rather than a t-shirt that advertizes breast self-exam.

Fire



Kaliko -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:46:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe

Where are all of the cute slogans for colon cancer?


Thank you. This is why I have a hard time with the "Save the ta-tas" and all these other cutesey names to draw attention to the issue as if women's breasts are cartoonish and we can't use real words - we have to say "boobies" or "ta-tas."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amygdalin

I think when people have those little "fun" sayings about it like "save the tatas," it shows a total lack of respect for the trials the sick have to face.


This, in a big way. I can understand how rallying around someone who's sick can help at some point, but there also is a need for good sense and courtesy in regards to those who are sick. Flouncing around in a cute shirt with silly slogans is, to me, hugely disrespectful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

if it were my underage daughter I would not have allowed her to wear a shirt that said something like that to school.


Nor would I. There are plenty of other ways to support the cause. My underage daughter will not wear any clothing that references her body parts. (Nor would I, at any age, even when younger with a hotter body.) Tacky.




TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:48:58 AM)

quote:

This, in a big way. I can understand how rallying around someone who's sick can help at some point, but there also is a need for good sense and courtesy in regards to those who are sick. Flouncing around in a cute shirt with silly slogans is, to me, hugely disrespectful.


So I guess the cancer patients I see every day at work are being disrespectful to their own disease? Ironic ain't it that they feel they are empowering themselves by wearing such things but well there ya go.



Kaliko -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:53:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


TBH, I can't get to grips with North American culture. Sometimes, you all can appear so liberal; other times, the fanatical Biblical stuff rears its head. Morality is one minute all about liberal-democratic rights; the next, it's all about 'an eye for an eye'. Killing people for their crimes is fine and most yanks still cream their knickers over just how morally righteous that is; teenaged girls being aware of sex is utterly unacceptable, no matter how much tawdry semi-porn pop music videos are pumped at them with the fawning approval of all those in government (or who hope to be in government).

You are all weird.


Not all of us believe in all of this.

And teenage girls being aware of sex isn't the issue. My 9-year old daughter knows full-well about sex (she asked) and I will always be very open with her about it. When the time comes, I will help her make wise choices and stay safe, just as my mother did with me.

The issue is that I feel the use of the cutesy words and slogans diminishes the cause. I think that teenage girls wearing these types of shirts only causes a stir for the wrong reasons, not the right ones. I think that, when there are clearly more appropriate and respectful ways to spread the word about a fundraiser, choosing to do so in a manner that makes light of such an awful illness is in very poor taste. And I won't be raising my daughter to consider this disease "fun." It's not fun. It's not lighthearted. It's not cute. The whole campaign - I heart boobies, save the ta-ta's - I dislike it all.



Kaliko -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 5:56:29 AM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

quote:

This, in a big way. I can understand how rallying around someone who's sick can help at some point, but there also is a need for good sense and courtesy in regards to those who are sick. Flouncing around in a cute shirt with silly slogans is, to me, hugely disrespectful.


So I guess the cancer patients I see every day at work are being disrespectful to their own disease? Ironic ain't it that they feel they are empowering themselves by wearing such things but well there ya go.


Yep, I know...everyone has their level of comfort with these things. This is mine. If you are someone that feels comfortable with this in the first place, then of course you would support it if you were facing the illness yourself. I don't, and I wouldn't be comfortable with it. That's kind of the point of the thread, no? That people have the differing viewpoints?



TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 6:02:58 AM)

I wasn't trying to negate your opinion, I was just trying to show you that the cancer patients you are trying to protect (bad word but another doesn't come to mind) are in fact the very ones who WEAR such t-shirts.



NocturnalStalker -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 6:03:04 AM)

Whatever happened to those bracelets you'd wear on your wrist to signify cancer awareness? 

I suppose the neon colours wasn't catching enough eyes. 



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 6:30:22 AM)

I get where you are coming from Kaliko.  I still think that the simple pink ribbon is more than enough to show support, since I doubt there are many people who do jnot know what it refers to.

The "Save the Tatas" ride I went on was specifically for a friend who was bald from chemo for breast cancer, and I figured if she was good with it, I was too.  I guess that is why I am not offended by that one cute saying.

Happy to say she is now 4 years cancer free and her hair is almost to the middle of her back.  It came back soft as silk too, which she loves!



barelynangel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:18:18 AM)

Heather, quit sounding like a child who is stamping her foot at her parents for just not understanding. lol. 

What you don't get is if these kids were mature enough to wear a shirt that they chose because of the sexual connotation, they would be TELLING and talking to their parents about the flashing of titties and sex and such they are all having, but they don't.  They hide it, run around giggling because they think its fun to hide it.   THAT is why to me they are too sexually immature to wear these types of shirts.  Because they think its a joke -- oh lookie me i am saying squeeze my lumps, not about the seriousness of the message.  IF the message was what is important than they simply would have gotten different shirts when the school said nope sorry.  If it was about breast cancer, they would simply have gotten different shirts and raised money.  But it's not, these kids are demanding to wear what can be seen as a sexually connotated shirt because that is the ONLY way they know how to support breast cancer?  They could have kept the shirts and worn them outside of school in support of breast cancer if their parents allowed -- the school simply said no.    Now they are selling them because they aren't allowed to wear them.  IF it were about the money they spent, i would agree the school should reimburse them the money paid so they can get new shirts -- IF they weren't told they need to get the design approved.

When these kids show their parents the flashing titties and caming sexually explicit information, and those parents say why yes gertrude i am all for you doing that with boys -- then come talk to me.  Kids in high school are still under the authority of their parents and the school administration is REQUIRED to protect these kids the best they can and the school from the parents of the children.  Have you remotely considered the schools position or is this really about for you kids getting to wear sexual connotated shirts? 

To me, anyone who fails to see the responsibility this school has to protect these kids from their own poor choices while protecting the school from negative repercussions of these girls wearing these shirts and the POSSIBILITY one of them may be sexually harrassed for doing so -- also shows an immaturity. 

Just because its the norm, doesn't mean its being mature, doesn't mean these kids are seeing it as something normal but more so they see it as a big secret to keep from mom and dad.  You call that being sexually mature?

I'm not sure what you think was around when we were in school, but heather, when we were in school we didn't have cams and phones, we actually had the person right in front of us.   But i guess its more fun now to do it miles apart.   I guess the definition of boring means up close and personal.

The school made the correct call for itself and yes the girls involved. 

angel 



GreedyTop -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:37:57 AM)

Angel..

when I was a teen (and yes, I DO remember being a teen) I would routinely wear sexually suggestive tshirts, buttons, etc around my folks and others .. but no, I was NOT talking about my sexual exploits with my folks.. and yes, I consider sexting to be a sexual exploit.



barelynangel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:43:24 AM)

Well, if your PARENTS allowed that -- that's find Greedy.  I am all for these girls wearing them if their parents allow it outside of a school function. I am not their parents.  III find them inappropriate for high school students.    I actually said wearing them outside the school function is up to them and their parents.   I don't have an issue with them selling them. 

But i think its inappropriate for these girls AS A REPRESENTATIVE of the school in raising money for breast cancer as part of a school sanctioned function.  I think the school made the right choice.

angel



TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:43:54 AM)

quote:

Heather, quit sounding like a child who is stamping her foot at her parents for just not understanding. lol. 


She isn't stamping her foot, she's telling us that in fact things aren't the way they were when we were her age. Personally I'm going to take the word of someone who is basically closest to the age range of the girls in the OP over those of us who left teenhood behind quite a while ago. Things just aren't the same as they were when you and I were teens. The internet, cell phones etc changed it. To apply the world we lived in to the world today is naive to say the least.



barelynangel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:48:29 AM)

Umm Firewithinme,

Many of us have 1) kids, 2) nieces and nephews etc that age.  I would think parents of kids know what the norm of acceptance is nowadays also.  I would BET the NORM is that these kids know doing so is wrong, they hide it, they keep it a dirty lil secret and are making damn sure mom and dad don't find out or if they do it in school the school doesn't find out.

So it's really not all that different.

angel



TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:52:21 AM)

Angel, if you think most kids tell their parents what they are up to you are sadly mistaken. It's the rare kid who is going to tell her parents she is texting topless pics to boys which IS the reality of kids today. Sure there are kids who have open talks with their parents but I very much doubt the vast majority are telling their parents stuff like that.



HannahLynn -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:52:48 AM)

you know what? fuck this argument, i'm going to commission one of the girls' surveys.

we'll ask
1. have they ever sexted/topless camed while in high school
2. would they ever have told their parents at the time.
      2a. if not, why not.

what else do should we ask?



barelynangel -> RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders (10/16/2011 7:52:59 AM)

That's the point

ITS A SCHOOL FUNCTION.  The school has responsibilities towards them and itself.  Hell even if it was a breast cancer function not funded by the school, i would say if your parents allow it -- go for it.

angel




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