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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 6:40:19 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


As I said in another thread:

I would be lying if I claimed there was not a good part of me that asks just why the rich should pay more in taxes.  We already know that there is a significant number of citizens who pay effectively no Federal income tax... and some who actually receive more money back than they paid in.  We know that Warren Buffet's tax rate is less than his secretary's, but what is the bottom line?  Do you really think that Warren Buffet paid less in taxes than his secretary?  He paid $6.9 million... what did she pay?  Did he receive more benefit from his contribution?  Did he use the roads more?  Did he receive more protection from the military?  Did he have access to more infrastructure? 

Just why is it "fair" for one man to pay so much, when others pay nothing at all? 

Of course he has a larger income and can afford it, but why does that matter? 

Would you consider it fair if the price for every purchase you made was based not on the value of the item, but on how much money you have?  Would it be fair for the regular guy in front of you in the grocery store line to get milk for $3.60 a gallon, but because you have a larger bank account, you have to pay $154 a gallon?




Treasure, here is "the deal";

We in North America or in Western Europe do not have it in our everyday awareness the tremendous value of such things as property rights, a good court system, a system of regulations (which so many complain about) that keeps businesses honest and prevents others from taking over yours against your will, at a vastly undercut price, stealing your intellectual property or your original ideas, selling inferior or counterfeit goods with your company's label on it, etc. That is to say, fundamentally, a functioning rule of law. Do you know how expensive it is to keep all that up?

Warren Buffett or Larry Blankfein drive on the roads everyday, fine. How many of us make use of the court system or the patent office or our account at the Federal Reserve or rely on various Federal agencies to ensure that the trucks or ships or planes or trains that we buy are safe for service, and rely upon Federal staffing of traffic management for much of that, on a daily or weekly basis? This doesn't come free, we all have to pay for it. Yes, some of that is paid for by users of the service, but a lot of it is not (e.g., the civil court system), and on occasions where fees are charged, most certainly below what would be 'market rate" and less than cost in any event.

It stands to reason that those who most benefit from this system pay accordingly for the services supporting their mode of income that depends so directly upon our system of law and the agencies that allow for all that. Delve into "third world" or developing countries if you want to see the value of what we have here.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/20/2011 7:01:55 AM >

(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 7:57:10 AM   
FirmhandKY


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So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools?

Firm


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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 8:02:29 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools?

Firm




Well, it is a sticky wicket, I have a child that goes to school in a district that I do not pay taxes in, so I pay for other childrens schooling. In view of my views, I perceive it as paying other chilren to compete with mine.

Back in the parochial school bruhaha (including the busing) there was a great deal of rhetoric coming from the folks who represented the folks who wanted that, as exactly that (and they weren't socialists).



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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 9:35:17 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools?


Well, it is a sticky wicket, I have a child that goes to school in a district that I do not pay taxes in, so I pay for other childrens schooling. In view of my views, I perceive it as paying other chilren to compete with mine.

Back in the parochial school bruhaha (including the busing) there was a great deal of rhetoric coming from the folks who represented the folks who wanted that, as exactly that (and they weren't socialists).

Yup, it is a sticky wicket when one starts making such arguments as Edywnn is making.

Firm


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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 10:29:08 AM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

... It stands to reason that those who most benefit from this system pay accordingly for the services supporting their mode of income that depends so directly upon our system of law and the agencies that allow for all that.


Ya know... I wonder about all those fees and taxes we pay: gasoline excise taxes, road tolls, vehicle registrations, licensing fees, court fees, airfare taxes, inspection fees.  I don't suppose those go to offset use by those who most utilize those things and actually pay those monies, do they?

Perhaps services should all be provided and taxed individually.  You know... like if you decide to file a civil suit, you have to pay court fees to do so.  If you drive a vehicle, you should have to pay a little something each time you buy gasoline to help cover the cost of roads. 

Nahh... it'd never work. 



< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 10/20/2011 10:30:56 AM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 10:37:19 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

... It stands to reason that those who most benefit from this system pay accordingly for the services supporting their mode of income that depends so directly upon our system of law and the agencies that allow for all that.


Ya know... I wonder about all those fees and taxes we pay: gasoline excise taxes, road tolls, vehicle registrations, licensing fees, court fees, airfare taxes, inspection fees.  I don't suppose those go to offset use by those who most utilize those things and actually pay those monies, do they?

Perhaps services should all be provided and taxed individually.  You know... like if you decide to file a civil suit, you have to pay court fees to do so.  If you drive a vehicle, you should have to pay a little something each time you buy gasoline to help cover the cost of roads. 

Nahh... it'd never work. 



It`s a mix,especially from state to state.

Because we all benifit from a road/rail system even though we don`t personally use those things.

The food we get,medical care,everything else we use, needs infrastructures in place to bring them to you or you to them.

I don`t think drivers could pay all the expences assosiated with roads,bridges and hi-ways just on their own.

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(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 11:15:14 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

... It stands to reason that those who most benefit from this system pay accordingly for the services supporting their mode of income that depends so directly upon our system of law and the agencies that allow for all that.


Ya know... I wonder about all those fees and taxes we pay: gasoline excise taxes, road tolls, vehicle registrations, licensing fees, court fees, airfare taxes, inspection fees.  I don't suppose those go to offset use by those who most utilize those things and actually pay those monies, do they?

Perhaps services should all be provided and taxed individually.  You know... like if you decide to file a civil suit, you have to pay court fees to do so.  If you drive a vehicle, you should have to pay a little something each time you buy gasoline to help cover the cost of roads. 

Nahh... it'd never work. 




that is the von Mises/Anarcho-capitalist/Ron Paul ideology


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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 12:38:19 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools?

Firm




That was neither said or even implied, your misreading of it notwithstanding. It should be pointed out, though, that European countries provide for higher education much more so than the US does. A well educated populace is an economic benefit to any country. Some countries are more aware of this than others. I have no trouble with my property taxes going towards the school system where I have no kids. I prefer literate people for neighbors, myself. Education is just one of several services that benefit society generally, whether directly benefiting each individual in particular or not.







(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 12:46:16 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


Ya know... I wonder about all those fees and taxes we pay: gasoline excise taxes, road tolls, vehicle registrations, licensing fees, court fees, airfare taxes, inspection fees.  I don't suppose those go to offset use by those who most utilize those things and actually pay those monies, do they?


As was plainly pointed out in my post, these taxes and fees indeed merely offset some portion of the total costs, nowhere near the full amount.



quote:



Perhaps services should all be provided and taxed individually.  You know... like if you decide to file a civil suit, you have to pay court fees to do so.  If you drive a vehicle, you should have to pay a little something each time you buy gasoline to help cover the cost of roads. 

Nahh... it'd never work. 




The day's total of court fees for an individual court -might- pay for the cost of the court reporter for that day. Indeed it just might.




(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 1:47:25 PM   
Masta808


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Inconvenient truths.


There is no need to bring Al Gore into this.

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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 1:59:19 PM   
Masta808


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Still waiting for you to answer the question. Or do you have me on hide because my "childish games" of asking you a simple question to confirm your beliefs was too much for you? I guess I went to far using the liberal media tactics of actually using your own quotes and facts to try and confirm your beliefs.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 2:06:06 PM   
TreasureKY


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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


Ya know... I wonder about all those fees and taxes we pay: gasoline excise taxes, road tolls, vehicle registrations, licensing fees, court fees, airfare taxes, inspection fees.  I don't suppose those go to offset use by those who most utilize those things and actually pay those monies, do they?


As was plainly pointed out in my post, these taxes and fees indeed merely offset some portion of the total costs, nowhere near the full amount.



quote:



Perhaps services should all be provided and taxed individually.  You know... like if you decide to file a civil suit, you have to pay court fees to do so.  If you drive a vehicle, you should have to pay a little something each time you buy gasoline to help cover the cost of roads. 

Nahh... it'd never work. 




The day's total of court fees for an individual court -might- pay for the cost of the court reporter for that day. Indeed it just might.


So, if it's the rich folk who are utilizing and benefiting most from these services, then increase the fees enough to cover the costs.  At least that way, no one else has to feel like they are subsidizing the services that most benefit the rich.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 2:33:25 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Inconvenient truths.


There is no need to bring Al Gore into this.



Then why did you?

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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 2:49:43 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

Still waiting for you to answer the question. Or do you have me on hide because my "childish games" of asking you a simple question to confirm your beliefs was too much for you? I guess I went to far using the liberal media tactics of actually using your own quotes and facts to try and confirm your beliefs.

You are only slightly bent, and a harmless blowfly, you haven't yet proved yourself a total idiot or psychotic poster.

But you're working on it ...

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Masta808)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 2:51:01 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools?


That was neither said or even implied,

Yes it was.  It is the logical inverse of your position.

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 3:22:20 PM   
Masta808


Posts: 591
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Inconvenient truths.


There is no need to bring Al Gore into this.



Then why did you?

I did?
you brought up Inconvenient truths aka al gore.

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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 3:35:57 PM   
Masta808


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808

Still waiting for you to answer the question. Or do you have me on hide because my "childish games" of asking you a simple question to confirm your beliefs was too much for you? I guess I went to far using the liberal media tactics of actually using your own quotes and facts to try and confirm your beliefs.

You are only slightly bent, and a harmless blowfly, you haven't yet proved yourself a total idiot or psychotic poster.

But you're working on it ...

Firm


Look an Ad Hominem, an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

All this over me asking you to confirm whether or not you are comfortable with Warren Buffett and possibly George Soros paying ONLY a sales tax.

Well you have proven yourself the worst kind of conservative. You act like the mighty conservative with all the information and counter arguments but in reality have no ground to stand on. Sanity and MasterSlaveLA are doing a better job than you.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 4:54:20 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So, if I don't have any kids in the local school system, I shouldn't have to pay the property taxes that support the schools?


That was neither said or even implied,

Yes it was.  It is the logical inverse of your position.

Firm



It is a false and meaningless, not to mention illogical, 'logical inverse' on your part.

Because one might think that murder is not a good thing does not lead to the 'logical inverse' that this same person thinks that everybody should have as many babies as possible. At least to a logically thinking person it wouldn't.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 10/20/2011 4:55:58 PM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 5:35:37 PM   
mnottertail


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the logical inverse is called a contrapostive, and its not one.
just sayin.

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RE: Warren Buffet would likely pay no income taxes in u... - 10/20/2011 5:50:08 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I did?
you brought up Inconvenient truths aka al gore.



And you thought that meant al gore? lmao

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Masta808)
Profile   Post #: 120
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