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RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/23/2011 7:50:08 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Pretty sure most of the GOP presidentail candidates deny the climate is changing.

Why yes they do
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/07/140071973/in-their-own-words-gop-candidates-and-science


You obviously didn't read any of the quoted material Ken... You might wanna take a look, this time with your glasses on.


Liar
Bachmann denies GW.
Cain denies GW
Gingrich has said things going both ways
Huntsman does not deny GW
Paul denies GW
Perry denies GW
Romney does not deny GW
Santorum denies GW

3 are at least close to reality and the 5 are deniers of some sort. 5 of 8 is most by definition.


Bachman... I think all these issues have to be settled on the base of real science, not manufactured science. — When asked about the "man-made climate change myth" and "green jobs"
at a campaign event in Spartanburg, S.C., Aug. 16, 2011

Cain... I don't believe ... global warming is real. Do we have climate change? Yes. Is it a crisis? No. ... Because the science, the real science, doesn't say that we have any major crisis or threat when it comes to climate change. — CBS News, June 9, 2011

Newt... Oh, sure ... I was trying to make a point that we shouldn’t be afraid to debate the left, even on the environment. That was obviously misconstrued, and that’s one of the things I probably won’t do again.

Paul... While it is evident that the human right to produce and use energy does not extend to activities that actually endanger the climate of the Earth upon which we all depend, bogus claims about climate dangers should not be used as a justification to further limit the American people's freedom.

Perry... I think there are a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data so that they will have dollars rolling in to their projects. I think we're seeing it almost weekly or even daily, scientists who are coming forward and questioning the original idea that man-made global warming is what is causing the climate to change.

Romney, who believed before he didn't believe... I don't speak for the scientific community, of course. But I believe the world's getting warmer. I can't prove that, but I believe based on what I read that the world is getting warmer. And No. 2, I believe that humans contribute to that ... so I think it's important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases that may well be significant contributors to the climate change and the global warming that you're seeing. — Reuters, June 3, 2011
Do I think the world's getting hotter? Yeah, I don't know that, but I think that it is. I don't know if it's mostly caused by humans ... What I'm not willing to do is spend trillions of dollars on something I don't know the answer to. — Campaign stop in New Hampshire, August 24, 2011

Santorum... I believe the Earth gets warmer, and I also believe the Earth gets cooler. And I think history points out that it does that, and that the idea that man, through the production of CO2 — which is a trace gas in the atmosphere, and the man-made part of that trace gas is itself a trace gas — is somehow responsible for climate change is, I think, just patently absurd when you consider all the other factors, El Niño, La Niña, sunspots, moisture in the air. ... To me, this is an opportunity for the left to create — it's really a beautifully concocted scheme because they know that the Earth is gonna cool and warm.


WHAT FUCKING PART OF MAN MADE DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THE QUESTION IN THE ORIGINAL OP IS ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, NOT MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING...

YOU'RE THE DISINGENUOUS LIAR HERE KENNY.

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 10/23/2011 8:00:12 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/23/2011 9:33:05 AM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have heard people arguing over the causes of global warming but I have never heard anyone claim that there was no change taking place. I would say that the fact that there were glaciers where I now live is proof enough of that.

Actually, boi, I have heard several of the Right fringe claiming just that.


So have I, Hillwilliam.  And two of the biggest deniers are the Koch brothers.  Ironically..  (This) http://bluemassgroup.com/2011/04/kochbacked-study-finds-support-for-global-warming/ has happened.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/23/2011 10:13:12 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Pretty sure most of the GOP presidentail candidates deny the climate is changing.

Why yes they do
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/07/140071973/in-their-own-words-gop-candidates-and-science


You obviously didn't read any of the quoted material Ken... You might wanna take a look, this time with your glasses on.


Liar
Bachmann denies GW.
Cain denies GW
Gingrich has said things going both ways
Huntsman does not deny GW
Paul denies GW
Perry denies GW
Romney does not deny GW
Santorum denies GW

3 are at least close to reality and the 5 are deniers of some sort. 5 of 8 is most by definition.


Bachman... I think all these issues have to be settled on the base of real science, not manufactured science. — When asked about the "man-made climate change myth" and "green jobs"
at a campaign event in Spartanburg, S.C., Aug. 16, 2011

Cain... I don't believe ... global warming is real. Do we have climate change? Yes. Is it a crisis? No. ... Because the science, the real science, doesn't say that we have any major crisis or threat when it comes to climate change. — CBS News, June 9, 2011

Newt... Oh, sure ... I was trying to make a point that we shouldn’t be afraid to debate the left, even on the environment. That was obviously misconstrued, and that’s one of the things I probably won’t do again.

Paul... While it is evident that the human right to produce and use energy does not extend to activities that actually endanger the climate of the Earth upon which we all depend, bogus claims about climate dangers should not be used as a justification to further limit the American people's freedom.

Perry... I think there are a substantial number of scientists who have manipulated data so that they will have dollars rolling in to their projects. I think we're seeing it almost weekly or even daily, scientists who are coming forward and questioning the original idea that man-made global warming is what is causing the climate to change.

Romney, who believed before he didn't believe... I don't speak for the scientific community, of course. But I believe the world's getting warmer. I can't prove that, but I believe based on what I read that the world is getting warmer. And No. 2, I believe that humans contribute to that ... so I think it's important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases that may well be significant contributors to the climate change and the global warming that you're seeing. — Reuters, June 3, 2011
Do I think the world's getting hotter? Yeah, I don't know that, but I think that it is. I don't know if it's mostly caused by humans ... What I'm not willing to do is spend trillions of dollars on something I don't know the answer to. — Campaign stop in New Hampshire, August 24, 2011

Santorum... I believe the Earth gets warmer, and I also believe the Earth gets cooler. And I think history points out that it does that, and that the idea that man, through the production of CO2 — which is a trace gas in the atmosphere, and the man-made part of that trace gas is itself a trace gas — is somehow responsible for climate change is, I think, just patently absurd when you consider all the other factors, El Niño, La Niña, sunspots, moisture in the air. ... To me, this is an opportunity for the left to create — it's really a beautifully concocted scheme because they know that the Earth is gonna cool and warm.


WHAT FUCKING PART OF MAN MADE DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THE QUESTION IN THE ORIGINAL OP IS ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, NOT MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING...

YOU'RE THE DISINGENUOUS LIAR HERE KENNY.

You're cherry picking quotes, including trying to ignore one where Cain clearly says he doesn't believe in global warming at all.

All caps won't change the denials into acceptance. You simply cannot make claims about CO2 having no effect on the climate into being accepting of climate change reality. Neither can you change a guy claiming all scientists involved lied into acceptance of reality.

Here's a video of Perry and Bachmann denying GW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYOQDz9Gt0Q&feature=related

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/23/2011 10:59:51 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You're cherry picking quotes, including trying to ignore one where Cain clearly says he doesn't believe in global warming at all.

All caps won't change the denials into acceptance. You simply cannot make claims about CO2 having no effect on the climate into being accepting of climate change reality. Neither can you change a guy claiming all scientists involved lied into acceptance of reality.

Here's a video of Perry and Bachmann denying GW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYOQDz9Gt0Q&feature=related


Cherry picking? Those quotes were from YOUR source Jackass.


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/23/2011 2:35:47 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You're cherry picking quotes, including trying to ignore one where Cain clearly says he doesn't believe in global warming at all.

All caps won't change the denials into acceptance. You simply cannot make claims about CO2 having no effect on the climate into being accepting of climate change reality. Neither can you change a guy claiming all scientists involved lied into acceptance of reality.

Here's a video of Perry and Bachmann denying GW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYOQDz9Gt0Q&feature=related


Cherry picking? Those quotes were from YOUR source Jackass.


Yes, cherry picking. Like where you bolded some other part of the Cain quote besides "I don't believe ... global warming is real"

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/26/2011 6:53:22 PM   
Masta808


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quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masta808
WRONG

Rush Limbaugh is right. Volcanoes do more to cause Global Warming than humans. Thats why Hawaii is the hottest place on Earth. I know I live here.

How do you figure?  There are South Sea island a lot closer to the Equator, and a hell of a lot hotter than Hawai'i.

Just as an aside, while 0.9C is commonly cited, the Arctic's warmed by 3C or so.  It's hammered Alaska, with softening of the tundra (tough on the underground "freezers" people had in the permafrost), foundations sinking, relocation of villages due to beach erosion (from lack of shore-fast ice), disruption of whale/walrus hunts, etc.  The ice roads in the polar North American continent are melting earlier every year.  It don't bode well for places like Prudhoe Bay!


So you saying Rush DIDNT say that volcanoes add to Global Warming?

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/26/2011 8:30:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have heard people arguing over the causes of global warming but I have never heard anyone claim that there was no change taking place. I would say that the fact that there were glaciers where I now live is proof enough of that.


Interestingly (and I'm no climatologist), the fact that this year (2011) there have been MORE ice shelf's falling apart/breaking away than any year since 2008....has caused the Pacific Ocean to FALL in temperature by 6 degree's Celsius (not sure what that is in Fahrenheit), causing the upper northern tier in the U.S. (projected) to be colder this year than last (I guess the news reports will tell us whether or not this is true) and the PDO (Pacific Decadal something or other) is moving towards a more "colder than normal" winter for 2011 (for the upper half of the Continental U.S.) suggests that we are indeed moving towards a colder (next 3+ years) as opposed to warmer.

Lot's of experts agree to disagree.....but the whole sunspot activity, PDO and a variety of other factors seem to indicate colder...not warmer....in general...not just for winter.

(I have no dog in this race but it would appear that the general trend as to science and scientists is for cooling....not warming).

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/26/2011 8:52:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have heard people arguing over the causes of global warming but I have never heard anyone claim that there was no change taking place. I would say that the fact that there were glaciers where I now live is proof enough of that.


Interestingly (and I'm no climatologist), the fact that this year (2011) there have been MORE ice shelf's falling apart/breaking away than any year since 2008....has caused the Pacific Ocean to FALL in temperature by 6 degree's Celsius (not sure what that is in Fahrenheit), causing the upper northern tier in the U.S. (projected) to be colder this year than last (I guess the news reports will tell us whether or not this is true) and the PDO (Pacific Decadal something or other) is moving towards a more "colder than normal" winter for 2011 (for the upper half of the Continental U.S.) suggests that we are indeed moving towards a colder (next 3+ years) as opposed to warmer.

Lot's of experts agree to disagree.....but the whole sunspot activity, PDO and a variety of other factors seem to indicate colder...not warmer....in general...not just for winter.

(I have no dog in this race but it would appear that the general trend as to science and scientists is for cooling....not warming).


Except of course for that whole melting of the Antarctic ice thing.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/30/2011 4:12:56 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have heard people arguing over the causes of global warming but I have never heard anyone claim that there was no change taking place. I would say that the fact that there were glaciers where I now live is proof enough of that.


Interestingly (and I'm no climatologist), the fact that this year (2011) there have been MORE ice shelf's falling apart/breaking away than any year since 2008....has caused the Pacific Ocean to FALL in temperature by 6 degree's Celsius (not sure what that is in Fahrenheit), causing the upper northern tier in the U.S. (projected) to be colder this year than last (I guess the news reports will tell us whether or not this is true) and the PDO (Pacific Decadal something or other) is moving towards a more "colder than normal" winter for 2011 (for the upper half of the Continental U.S.) suggests that we are indeed moving towards a colder (next 3+ years) as opposed to warmer.

Lot's of experts agree to disagree.....but the whole sunspot activity, PDO and a variety of other factors seem to indicate colder...not warmer....in general...not just for winter.

(I have no dog in this race but it would appear that the general trend as to science and scientists is for cooling....not warming).


Except of course for that whole melting of the Antarctic ice thing.


(Well....there is that).

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/30/2011 4:50:24 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		There are. Here is a fun filled link for you. A lot of the deniers are trying to
back off their previous position, by saying that what they really meant was that warming wasn't caused by man.
http://www.wnho.net/global_warming.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have heard people arguing over the causes of global warming but I have never heard anyone claim that there was no change taking place. I would say that the fact that there were glaciers where I now live is proof enough of that.


_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/30/2011 10:03:47 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

There are. Here is a fun filled link for you. A lot of the deniers are trying to
back off their previous position, by saying that what they really meant was that warming wasn't caused by man.
http://www.wnho.net/global_warming.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I have heard people arguing over the causes of global warming but I have never heard anyone claim that there was no change taking place. I would say that the fact that there were glaciers where I now live is proof enough of that.



and?


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/30/2011 10:07:44 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		And there are plenty of people who argued fervently that gw was a myth. Whether you "heard" them or not.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/31/2011 7:45:19 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

The minute that the Republican Party becomes the ... anti-science party, we have a huge problem. We lose a whole lot of people that would otherwise allow us to win the election in 2012. — ABC News' "This Week," Aug. 21, 2011


heeheehee


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/31/2011 8:16:04 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		This is an extremely complex topic, and I find it absolutely hilarious that there are so many 'experts' on this issue. Admittedly, I know nothing about this subject.

For the record, not everyone who denies climate change is unqualified to speak on the matter. Richard Lindzen, meteorology professor at MIT, is no supporter and argues that global warming is just climate alarmism. I'm willing to bet that he knows more than all you amateurs.

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/co2_report_july_09.pdf


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 10/31/2011 9:10:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Monckton? You're really quoting a Monckton tract?
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2008/07/19/202897/american-physical-society-stomps-on-monckton-disinformation-thank-you-climate-progress-readers/
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/05/moncktons-deliberate-manipulation/
http://www.celsias.com/article/monckton-myths-one-stop-shop-debunking-viscount-mo/

The Lindzen and Choi article he claims to have pulled the data from is the subject of very harsh criticism for faulty analysis as well
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/01/first-published-response-to-lindzen-and-choi/


(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 11/1/2011 2:07:19 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Monckton? You're really quoting a Monckton tract?

If the "tract" you're referring to is the PDF file linked, then I think you need to address the many sources that are cited therein. Smearing the data and references wholesale because Monckton's name appears at the top as Editor does not recommend giving your comments any serious consideration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The Lindzen and Choi article he claims to have pulled the data from is the subject of very harsh criticism for faulty analysis as well

Your link offers these "harsh" observations of the "faulty" analysis:

It will take a little time to assess the issues that have been raised (and these papers are unlikely to be the last word), but it is worth making a couple of points about the process. First off, LC09 was not a nonsense paper – that is, it didn’t have completely obvious flaws that should have been caught by peer review (unlike say, McLean et al, 2009 or Douglass et al, 2008). Even if it now turns out that the analysis was not robust, it was not that the analysis was not worth trying, and the work being done to re-examine these questions is a useful contributions to the literature – even if the conclusion is that this approach to the analysis is flawed.

For anyone interested, which won't include you of course, here is more on the findings:

Lindzen on negative climate feedback

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 11/1/2011 6:10:34 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Fact, Lindzen paper claimed GW would be 1C by 2080, total including what has already happened. Fact, the global average temp is already up more than 1C. Now I'm no climatologist, and neither is Lindzen he's a weather forcaster, but predicting 1C rise total by 2080 and being wrong amount the amount of temp rise that has already occured makes Lindzen analysis just plain wrong.

The criticism of the paper was the first published one. Do you honestly expect me to provide all of them to you? Learn to use google and stop being such a joke.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 11/1/2011 6:12:37 AM   
ArizonaBossMan


Posts: 380
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Only liberals truly think al gore is a noted climatologist. Like anything else, follow the money. Who funds whom and what do they support? True scientific method encourages criticism and does not brand it as the enemy. Check out the relationship of volcanic activity and sun spots on climate. Do your own research. It isn't hard.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 11/1/2011 6:25:37 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.economist.com/node/21533360
A new analysis of the temperature record leaves little room for the doubters. The world is warming




Not to respond to the original post in particular, but to the broad subject:

I find it somewhat troublesome that the issue of global warming (or not) has come to be effectively co-opting the concern of human intrusion upon the environment overall. CO2 emissions are but one of the myriad interactions between humans and the rest of nature. Let's assume, for sake of argument, that we can't get a definitive grasp on the emissions re affect on global temperature change. Now let's consider that we also don't have a firm grasp on the effect of species dying out due to impact of human  expansion.  Every plant and every critter participates in the feedback mechanism of the planet, but many species have died off long before humans came along. And consider that we don't have the financial recources to assess the impact of the wide variety of man made chemicals, solvents, refined fuel, drugs, etc. that are either leached into the water table or unceremoniously dumped into the river or the lake or the oceans.

My one year of Geology classes has me more worried about the other aspects, especially the water, because of the potential greater immediate and more direct impact on both humans and nature overall than is the case with emissions into the air.

The danger with all the focus on global warming (or not) is that if we consider that we don't have either the financial or intellectual resources to answer such a question with absolute certainty, and as some are insisting that we take no measures to change our interaction with the planet whatsoever with out such definitive 'proof,' it's only a small step to then just throw our hands up and say "f*ck it, we'll just dump whatever we want into the water, animals and plants have died off before, haven't they? what about it?"






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/1/2011 7:05:01 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Climate change The heat is on - 11/1/2011 6:33:38 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

Only liberals truly think al gore is a noted climatologist. Like anything else, follow the money. Who funds whom and what do they support? True scientific method encourages criticism and does not brand it as the enemy. Check out the relationship of volcanic activity and sun spots on climate. Do your own research. It isn't hard.



"Only liberals truly think al gore is a noted climatologist."

Only a complete dumbass would ever say such a thing as that.


Like anything else, follow the money; check out the relationship between oil services companies' CEOs as vice president and hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and sharp increase in terrorism and domestic national debt. Do your own research. It isn't hard. (OK, I take that last one back in the case of the poster above. Obviously, thinking presents quite an obstacle in this case).


Check out the relationship between complete dumbassedness and ever declining water quality. Reading your own posts would actually constitute good research on the dumbassedness part.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/1/2011 7:21:16 AM >

(in reply to ArizonaBossMan)
Profile   Post #: 60
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