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RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:11:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, I have. No, I cant. My father can, Are you telling me its acceptable to miss your mark?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:16:23 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yes, I have. No, I cant. My father can, Are you telling me its acceptable to miss your mark?


I'm saying no one can hit what they aim at 100% of the time, especially with a hip-fired weapon with no scope.

While I was still in the military, I earned the marksmanship ribbon with the M9 and even I missed the mark 4 times.

< Message edited by DarqueMirror -- 10/28/2011 8:17:48 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:16:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
IF they aimed for the torso, they obviously missed. So much for their training.

Ban bags are not intended to be aimed except at extremities. What happened?


And can you hit exactly what you're aiming at 100% of the time? Have you even ever fired a weapon?

I'm confident I'm going to hit what I'm aiming at or I don't squeeze the trigger.

With a grenade launcher firing a tear gas canister this is pretty straightforward. Aim an arcing shot well over the heads of the nearest rioters or shoot at the ground in front of them. Neither one accounts for a man standing 10 feet in front of the officers getting hit in the head. It was intentional or the cop is the worst trained LEO I've ever heard of.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:18:42 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Like a headshot with a teargas cannister?


No. "Headshot" implies intent. I'm still waiting to see evidence of that "intent," but I dontthink it exists.

Here's another hole in your "intent" theory. When shooting at human targets, cops are trained to aim for the torso, as it presents the biggest, easiest target to hit. So even if there was "intent" to hit a person with a non-lethal round, the head would not have been the target.

And for another hole: we don't even know it was a tear gas round. It could easily have been a bean bag round, which *are* intended to be fired at people. However, the previous statement about aiming for the torso would still apply, as that would be the ideal, non-lethal yet effective place to hit a person with such a round.

No, headshot means he was hit in the head.
As for beanbag rounds. Do you mean the ones that the Oakland PD spokesperson said they didn't use? As the investigation progresses, it will be REALLY easy to ascertain what he was hit by as it fractured his skull so the cuts on his head will match some munition.

Again. Either he was shot deliberately in the head or he wasn't. If he wasn't shot deliberately, someone can't hit the side of a barn and needs some SERIOUS remedial work. If he was shot there deliberately someone needs to be held responsible.

Will that happen? I doubt it very seriously.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:19:32 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I'm confident I'm going to hit what I'm aiming at or I don't squeeze the trigger.

With a grenade launcher firing a tear gas canister this is pretty straightforward. Aim an arcing shot well over the heads of the nearest rioters or shoot at the ground in front of them. Neither one accounts for a man standing 10 feet in front of the officers getting hit in the head. It was intentional or the cop is the worst trained LEO I've ever heard of.


And just as soon as you provide evidence of this, the debate will be over. But since you have none and weren't there, the debate continues.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:20:24 PM   
errantgeek


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

I still have yet to see any evidence of these claims you claim the cops made.


http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-oakland-protester-says-this-video-prooves-the-oakland-police-used-illegal-flash-bangs-2011-10

http://www.thefastertimes.com/news/2011/10/26/oakland-police-department-and-protesters-face-off-at-occupy-oakland/

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/26/riots-erupt-in-oakland-atlanta-to-clear-out-occupiers/

http://www.ktvu.com/news/29586433/detail.html

Finally...if that's not good enough for you:

http://www.ktvu.com/video/29598382/index.html

http://youtu.be/aXnNYK0uJVk

You happy?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:21:06 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


No, I'm just lending the word of a sworn peace officer more credibility than a mask-wearing protester who would incite a riot bythrowing things at uniformed police officers.


I thought you said everyone had the same rights?


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:21:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek
See, here's your problem. You're taking cops' claims as indisputable evidence in this matter.


No, I'm just lending the word of a sworn peace officer more credibility than a mask-wearing protester who would incite a riot bythrowing things at uniformed police officers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek
Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed flashbangs were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying.

Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed bean bag rounds were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying.

Despite the fact the Oakland PD claimed rubber shot and bullets were not used against protesters. Lie, and there's evidence to prove they were lying.


I still have yet to see any evidence of these claims you claim the cops made.




"I'm pretty sad and obviously it's very painful," she said Friday. "(Somebody in the national media) said I should have resigned. But I don't have time to think about politics. I have to keep people safe.
"I've been able to organize the communities and balance the budget. It's painful to have all your work defined by one thing. The city probably did make some mistakes, that's why I apologized to the family of Scott Olsen."

quote:

Jordan, Quan and Santana have since tried to justify its use of force. They have launched an investigation to determine if it was used properly and whether law enforcement agencies called in to provide mutual aid during the protest followed Oakland's policy on less-lethal ammunition.

The city adopted a crowd control policy after many innocent bystanders were injured by less-lethal ammunition during an April 7, 2003, anti-war protest at the Port of Oakland.
Clearly the city violated its own policy, said Civil Rights Attorney Jim Chanin, who helped forge the agreement and said he was shocked that once again, it appears that Oakland overreacted with violence against people exercising their First Amendment right to go to a march.

He said the police department needs to be held accountable.

"Quan still has time to show some leadership and hold the police accountable and let the chips fall where they may," he said. "This has obviously been a big problem for her. I think there will be time for judging her when it's over. But this is still happening and she needs to step up. She has to balance the actions of the police and the rights of the protesters."


http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_19219380?source=rss

I dont think the Mayor agrees with you.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:22:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yes, I have. No, I cant. My father can, Are you telling me its acceptable to miss your mark?


I'm saying no one can hit what they aim at 100% of the time, especially with a hip-fired weapon with no scope.

While I was still in the military, I earned the marksmanship ribbon with the M9 and even I missed the mark 4 times.


They werent supposed to be using those weapons.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:25:15 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
No, headshot means he was hit in the head.


To you maybe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for beanbag rounds. Do you mean the ones that the Oakland PD spokesperson said they didn't use? As the investigation progresses, it will be REALLY easy to ascertain what he was hit by as it fractured his skull so the cuts on his head will match some munition.


You know, I'm still waiting to see evidence of the cops claiming none were used. I'll just keep waiting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Again. Either he was shot deliberately in the head or he wasn't. If he wasn't shot deliberately, someone can't hit the side of a barn and needs some SERIOUS remedial work.


So, you equate shooting something as small as a person with the "broad side if a barn?" Interesting. You it sound like the guy had a laser-targeted missile and still missed.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:27:50 PM   
errantgeek


Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

You know, I'm still waiting to see evidence of the cops claiming none were used. I'll just keep waiting.


No, you won't.

The link is right here. This big obnoxious red bold-face type on your screen is the link to the evidence you've requested. Click the big obnoxious red letters formed into words to hear for yourself Chief Jordan claiming outright no flashbangs or less-lethal rounds were used.

As, you know, has already been linked once. To everyone else that's not shoving their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and singing ring-around-the-posie, to try to preserve their arguments, I do apologize for that.

< Message edited by errantgeek -- 10/28/2011 8:30:30 PM >

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:31:08 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I thought you said everyone had the same rights?


Rights, yes. Benefit of the doubt while engaging in violence against officers (or at the very least refusing to comply with officers' orders), no.

Whose word would you take first, a cop or a known gang member? Your friend or the guy you just met? Your wife or a handy man? Your kid or a vagrant? All have the rights, but whose word will you take?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:31:08 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


So, you equate shooting something as small as a person with the "broad side if a barn?" Interesting. You it sound like the guy had a laser-targeted missile and still missed.

I'm used to precision shooting. (minute of arc) Quarter sized groups at 100 meters, etc. If someone can't either A: Hit the ground which is larger than a barn or B: Shoot over the top of a group standing 12 feet away they need to have their toys taken away.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:32:42 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I'm confident I'm going to hit what I'm aiming at or I don't squeeze the trigger.

With a grenade launcher firing a tear gas canister this is pretty straightforward. Aim an arcing shot well over the heads of the nearest rioters or shoot at the ground in front of them. Neither one accounts for a man standing 10 feet in front of the officers getting hit in the head. It was intentional or the cop is the worst trained LEO I've ever heard of.


And just as soon as you provide evidence of this, the debate will be over. But since you have none and weren't there, the debate continues.

The evidence has been posted multiple times. You just choose to ignore it.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:35:39 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The evidence has been posted multiple times. You just choose to ignore it.


Oh really? The evidence posted was of the intent of the officer? I seriously doubt that as I've not heard of any court case before a jury that can move that fast.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:36:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The Mayor stated something went wrong.

The city probably did make some mistakes, that's why I apologized to the family of Scott Olsen

An admission of wrongdoing.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:38:00 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I thought you said everyone had the same rights?


Rights, yes. Benefit of the doubt while engaging in violence against officers (or at the very least refusing to comply with officers' orders), no.

Whose word would you take first, a cop or a known gang member? Your friend or the guy you just met? Your wife or a handy man? Your kid or a vagrant? All have the rights, but whose word will you take?

I wouldn't believe any of the above if I had caught them lying.

Know anyone like that?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:38:51 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I'm used to precision shooting. (minute of arc) Quarter sized groups at 100 meters, etc. If someone can't either A: Hit the ground which is larger than a barn or B: Shoot over the top of a group standing 12 feet away they need to have their toys taken away.


Back to assumptions as to the location of the shooter vs. The guy who was hit, hmmm? How sad.

Tell me something, Mr. Marksman. You've shot over the heads of people standing twelve feet from you. If that's all there were, that's great. But what if there are others further back than those 12 feet? Your round has to come down sometime, doesn't it? Guess you just shot someone in the head too. Not too tough an accident to have, is it?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:39:27 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The evidence has been posted multiple times. You just choose to ignore it.


Oh really? The evidence posted was of the intent of the officer? I seriously doubt that as I've not heard of any court case before a jury that can move that fast.

Are you being that dense on purpose?

The evidence presented was the evidence you asked for that the police had used nonlethal munitions and lied about it.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 8:41:09 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The Mayor stated something went wrong.

The city probably did make some mistakes, that's why I apologized to the family of Scott Olsen

An admission of wrongdoing.


Looks more like an admission of an accident to me. See the word "mistakes" in there? Wrongdoing implies intent.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 200
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