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RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 7:06:28 AM

Arienos

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

"veterans for peace."

Veterans for Peace do not represent the Marine Corps or speak for them, neither do they speak for the Marine Corps Legue or the Retired Officers Assocation and they most certainly do not speak for me.

< Message edited by Arienos -- 10/28/2011 7:46:08 AM >

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

Post #: 101

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 7:37:33 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Nor would I expect men and women in the military to decry their oath and stand with the occupiers... nor do the occupiers expect such. However, the retired military presence is strong. And the call for more to join is growing. http://occupymarines.org/

No one wants another Kent State, yet it almost happened, didnt it. Does it make your military blood surge at the thought of americans hurting americans simply because they dont like the message they are hearing? Does it make you swell up with pride to see guns aimed at people who are defenseless?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arienos)

Post #: 102

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 9:52:43 AM

Arienos

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

No one wants another Kent State, yet it almost happened, didnt it. Does it make your military blood surge at the thought of americans hurting americans simply because they dont like the message they are hearing? Does it make you swell up with pride to see guns aimed at people who are defenseless?

Defenseless in a land of gun owners, defenseless in a land of well armed and in many cases well organized illegal weapons dealers… defenseless many not be the right word.

My understanding is a unruly mob armed with both mind altering drugs and the understanding or expertise to manufacture deadly weapons from generally used every day items.( Information readily available to anyone with a computer.)

You spoke of former military members, clearly any expertly trained Marine Recon, Navy Seal, Army Delta Force or Range can teach and train a formidable group of homeless vagrants to a point of proficient hand to hand combatants in just eight weeks. Somehow with all these skills you allege to have at your disposal I find the use of the word defenseless empty and question the underlining purpose and use of military expertise in a peaceful demonstration.

Does it hurt me when thinking of Americans hurting Americans, oh yes it does; i am caused to think of the deadest war the United States ever fought, brothers against brothers, fathers against son's…fought right here on my land in my nation. Tears roll freely even as I write, yes it hurts me and it scares the hell out of me too because the fuse to ignite a similar battle may be in the making or even in someone’s hand even as I am typing.
Not so long ago I haloed into a village without electricity, running water or plumbing. No school but every male child over 12 was working in a cave manufacture and/or effectively use a wide variety of rapid fire weapons and I don’t want to see my nation reduced to that under the guise of a so-called returned freedom.

< Message edited by Arienos -- 10/28/2011 10:03:50 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 103

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 9:55:12 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

well well well, I wonder if we shouldnt be talking about asynchronous war here.

I knew you reminded me of someone.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Arienos)

Post #: 104

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:06:06 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Defenseless in a land of gun owners, defenseless in a land of well armed and in many cases well organized illegal weapons dealers… defenseless many not be the right word.

Can you document one incident of a protester at OWS attacking police with a gun?

quote:

My understanding is a unruly mob armed with both mind altering drugs and the understanding or expertise to manufacture deadly weapons from generally used every day items.( Information readily available to anyone with a computer.)

Again, document these "mindaltering" drugs and who used them.

quote:

You spoke of former military members, clearly any expertly trained Marine Recon, Navy Seal, Army Delta Force or Range can teach and train a formidable group of homeless vagrants to a point of proficient hand to hand combatants in just eight weeks. Somehow with all these skills you allege to have at your disposal I find the use of the word defenseless empty and question the underlining purpose and use of military expertise in a peaceful demonstration.

That is assuming... which you are... they are being taught such things. Documentation is required.

quote:

Defenseless in a land of gun owners, defenseless in a land of well armed and in many cases well organized illegal weapons dealers… defenseless many not be the right word.
My understanding is a unruly mob armed with both mind altering drugs and the understanding or expertise to manufacture deadly weapons from generally used every day items.( Information readily available to anyone with a computer.) You spoke of former military members, clearly any expertly trained Marine Recon, Navy Seal, Army Delta Force or Range can teach and train a formidable group of homeless vagrants to a point of proficient hand to hand combatants in just a few months. Somehow with all these skills you allege to have at your disposal I find the use of the word defenseless...empty and question the underlining purpose and use of military expertise in a peaceful demonstration.

Repeating something doesnt make it any more true than the first time you posted it.

quote:

Does it hurt me when thinking of Americans hurting Americans, oh yes it does; i am caused to think of the deadest war the United States ever fought, brothers against brothers, fathers against son's…fought right here on my land in my nation. Tears roll freely even as I write, yes it hurts me and it scares the hell out of me too because the fuse to ignite a similar battle may be in the making or even in someone’s hand even as I am typing.
Not so long ago I haloed into a village without electricity, running water or plumbing. No school but every male child over 12 was working in a cave manufacture and/or effectively use a wide variety of rapid fire weapons and I don’t want to see my nation reduced to that under the guise of a so-called returned freedom.

It hurts my heart too... and my hurt goes back farther than the Civil War... and was caused by the government you insist is so righteous in its actions.

Your nation is already hurting. You are just wearing too many blinders to see past the rhetoric.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arienos)

Post #: 105

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:07:43 AM

errantgeek

Posts: 156
Joined: 6/20/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arienos

Defenseless in a land of gun owners, defenseless in a land of well armed and in many cases well organized illegal weapons dealers… defenseless many not be the right word.

My understanding is a unruly mob armed with both mind altering drugs and the understanding or expertise to manufacture deadly weapons from generally used every day items.( Information readily available to anyone with a computer.)

You spoke of former military members, clearly any expertly trained Marine Recon, Navy Seal, Army Delta Force or Range can teach and train a formidable group of homeless vagrants to a point of proficient hand to hand combatants in just eight weeks. Somehow with all these skills you allege to have at your disposal I find the use of the word defenseless empty and question the underlining purpose and use of military expertise in a peaceful demonstration.

Defenseless in a land of gun owners, defenseless in a land of well armed and in many cases well organized illegal weapons dealers… defenseless many not be the right word.
My understanding is a unruly mob armed with both mind altering drugs and the understanding or expertise to manufacture deadly weapons from generally used every day items.( Information readily available to anyone with a computer.) You spoke of former military members, clearly any expertly trained Marine Recon, Navy Seal, Army Delta Force or Range can teach and train a formidable group of homeless vagrants to a point of proficient hand to hand combatants in just a few months. Somehow with all these skills you allege to have at your disposal I find the use of the word defenseless...empty and question the underlining purpose and use of military expertise in a peaceful demonstration.

Does it hurt me when thinking of Americans hurting Americans, oh yes it does; i am caused to think of the deadest war the United States ever fought, brothers against brothers, fathers against son's…fought right here on my land in my nation. Tears roll freely even as I write, yes it hurts me and it scares the hell out of me too because the fuse to ignite a similar battle may be in the making or even in someone’s hand even as I am typing.
Not so long ago I haloed into a village without electricity, running water or plumbing. No school but every male child over 12 was working in a cave manufacture and/or effectively use a wide variety of rapid fire weapons and I don’t want to see my nation reduced to that under the guise of a so-called returned freedom.

Very well said, but I'll make a counter-point.

Going along with everything you said, these people are (to this point) defenseless because they've chosen to be so. DarqueMirror makes the point of how easily rocks and bottles can turn into IED's, molotov cocktails, and guns. Yet, it hasn't and has a low probability of doing so in the near future. That's because the movement at large, even if a minority within it support violence as a means of effecting political will (more in a sec), has made the conscious choice to not be violent to date. That's because they've opted for non-violent resistance and civil disobedience.

Except, the problem is the more tensions heighten and the more violence is effected upon these people by law enforcement -- keep in mind the Oakland situation was started by police using riot dispersal tactics against an unarmed and non-violent encampment, and the New York situation a month ago caused by the same -- the more credibility the people who otherwise would be violent become, and the harder those voices become to moderate. If you make people feel as if they're under attack, the urge to arm themselves and violently resist becomes stronger.

I'm sure there are people for and against the occupy movement eagerly waiting for another Kent State. Those people are the ones we should be fighting.

(in reply to Arienos)

Post #: 106

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:08:50 AM

Arienos

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

well well well, I wonder if we shouldnt be talking about asynchronous war here.

What we should be doing iand are doing is not one in the same.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 107

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:09:36 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Oddly enough, the same argument... that it will turn violent by the actions of the protesters.. is the same argument used in the CRM.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to errantgeek)

Post #: 108

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:14:11 AM

Arienos

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

I'm sure there are people for and against the occupy movement eagerly waiting for another Kent State. Those people are the ones we should be fighting.

I am not fighting anyone, I am prepared and ready to answer the call if it becoms necessary, I dsiagree with your comments and find them not factual but that in itself in irrelevent and does not effect my commitment to my congreess and president.

(in reply to errantgeek)

Post #: 109

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:17:23 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

So what can you wear? It's been 20 years since I separated, and IIRC, one can wear uniforms as long as there are no patches or rank.

http://occupymarines.org/

We ask that OccupyOMC and other veteran supporters comply with DoD regulations and refrain from wearing all or part of any official dress or service uniform when participating in the Occupy movement. OccupyOMC suggests wearing other veteran, patriotic or service-affiliated items instead.

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 10/28/2011 10:19:00 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 110

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:20:13 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Im still waiting to hear about all the occupiers the military vets are now training in secret.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 111

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:23:38 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i know that; it's still sad that they aren't taken care of, and have no choice but to rely on every single service they can qualify for, just to get by.
i don't think our society looks after them the way it should.

Its not about rights and never has been.

Show me one contract or treaty the US has stood behind when it did not serve their interests?

Shall we start with the american indians? Mexicans? and so forth.

They make deals with people (like health care) PROMISING entitlements and then when they get enough people on board claim they cannot afford it, but since you joined you gave them jurisdiction regardless if they produce on their end or not.

Of course the courts will save us! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Theres one for comedy central!

WHen you elect these asswipes they are chartered to protect the "it" we call state, not the people.

That is is a kingdom, that is what sovereign means.

Proof?

quote:

1.01 State sovereignty and jurisdiction.

The sovereignty and jurisdiction of this state extend to all places within the boundaries declared in article II of the constitution, subject only to such rights of jurisdiction as have been or shall be acquired by the United States over any places therein; and the governor, and all subordinate officers of the state, shall maintain and defend its sovereignty and jurisdiction

I dont hear people in there anywhere did you?

All I heard was "IT".

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 112

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:41:53 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arienos

quote:

"veterans for peace."

Veterans for Peace do not represent the Marine Corps or speak for them, neither do they speak for the Marine Corps Legue or the Retired Officers Assocation and they most certainly do not speak for me.

What's a Legue?

(in reply to Arienos)

Post #: 113

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 10:44:55 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arienos

quote:

"veterans for peace."

Veterans for Peace do not represent the Marine Corps or speak for them, neither do they speak for the Marine Corps Legue or the Retired Officers Assocation and they most certainly do not speak for me.

What's a Legue?

Oh a normal sized leg can weigh 20 pounds or so, I imagine.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 114

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 11:35:41 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

Oakland Lullaby
October 26, 2011 at 9:34 pm Cuttlefish
MSNBC anchor: “In Oakland, police fired tear gas to calm down the crowd.”

Hushabye, hushabye, rest your sweet head
The tear gas is fired, the rioters fled,
The bullets are rubber; we’re saving the lead
Hushabye, hushabye, darling…

Hushabye, hushabye, close your sweet eyes
The tear gas would give them a sorry surprise
So looking about you is rather unwise
Hushabye, hushabye, darling…

Hushabye, hushabye, draw down the shades
The darkness approaches, the day softly fades
There’s no need to witness the flash-bang grenades
Hushabye, hushabye, darling…

Hushabye, hushabye, darling, now rest
Sleep like an angel; sleep heaven-blessed
Sleep while your momma is under arrest
Hushabye, hushabye, darling…

Hushabye, hushabye, time now to snooze
Nothing to see here, we’ve turned off the news
So no one can see when policemen abuse
Hushabye, hushabye, darling…

Hushabye, hushabye, here in the dark
No need to worry about folks in the park
It isn’t a fire; it’s only a spark
Hushabye, hushabye, darling…

http://freethoughtblogs.com/cuttlefish/2011/10/26/oakland-lullaby/

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 115

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 1:17:16 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

No support?

Tazzy you can't so naive as to believe that organization represents the majority thinking of the military...come on.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 116

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 1:28:01 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

No support?

Tazzy you can't so naive as to believe that organization represents the majority thinking of the military...come on.

Butch

Any evidence it doesn't?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 117

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 1:59:59 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Yes... common sense...The Vietnam era had protests that make these occurring today look like child’s play...Yet the Corps then looked on the protest as anti American. When Obama was running he did not get much support from the military ranks because of his insistence in pulling out of hard fought for Iraq. I believe it is safe to say that the military as a whole lean to the conservative side of politics and ALWAYS have. I see no difference here…It would piss me off if a Marine in uniform participated in protest of any kind. Any Marine in uniform represents the service as a whole and it was not his place to represent me or them without permission.

It is the place for you or I to protest what we feel is right or wrong as civilian citizens…but when the uniform is on, the allegiance is to the United States and personal views must be put on the back burner until you are a civilian… This is how it has been and should be…military must be neutral or you can get anarchy. If you think the majority of Americans want to see the Marine Corps or any other service organization taking sides in civilian protest you are a nutcase and seriously wrong.\

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 118

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 2:02:24 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arienos

quote:

Yeah, if you're like most folks your age, a half decent number of the guys you know have been. And I'm not surprised they're pissed. My hope though is that some'll come down and be counted as opposed to looking to beef with the cops.
First place (besides maybe oakland... cause they're just fucking idiots) ... first place they see 50 vet's shoulder to shoulder down at one of these sites, I think they might think a little harder before they fire the gas.

I think it may be wise to recognize our police force's hire veterans.

More veterans commit suicide every day than join the police force.

The police were doing their job, the job we pay them to do using standard operating procedure

Get real you can't even serve a summons at four in the morning

and I can assure you the United States Marine Corps has not endorsed the demonstrators nor has it offered support. Neither has the retired Marine Corps Officers Association or the Marine Corps League.

You do realize that 90% of ex marines were not fucking lifers.

Retired and separated (Discharged) marines are a formidable force in numbers and their voice will be heard in the ballot box in a disciplined orderly peaceful manner.

If I remember correctly gen. roy gieger tried to court martial about a thousand marine staff nco's for mutiny shortly after ww2...
Then there was all that unpleasentness when the marine corps tried to bring back all of the ww 2 vets for korea. Open insubrdination was the order of the day and it was not uncommon to require four military police to bring in each recalcitrant ex marine. You obviously know nothing about marines or the marine corps. They are a disciplined group but orderly and peaceful are not words that are part of their lexicon.

(in reply to Arienos)

Post #: 119

RE: USMC joins #OWS after OPD takes a headshot at Marin... - 10/28/2011 2:08:13 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes... common sense...The Vietnam era had protests that make these occurring today look like child’s play...Yet the Corps then looked on the protest as anti American. When Obama was running he did not get much support from the military ranks because of his insistence in pulling out of hard fought for Iraq. I believe it is safe to say that the military as a whole lean to the conservative side of politics and ALWAYS have. I see no difference here…It would piss me off if a Marine in uniform participated in protest of any kind. Any Marine in uniform represents the service as a whole and it was not his place to represent me or them without permission.

It is the place for you or I to protest what we feel is right or wrong as civilian citizens…but when the uniform is on, the allegiance is to the United States and personal views must be put on the back burner until you are a civilian… This is how it has been and should be…military must be neutral or you can get anarchy. If you think the majority of Americans want to see the Marine Corps or any other service organization taking sides in civilian protest you are a nutcase and seriously wrong.\

Butch

In other words, you don't have a fucking thing except your opinion.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 120

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