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RE: Obedience Training - 10/30/2011 10:28:35 PM   
HannahLynn


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/16/2011
From: where its fucking at.
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quote:

Both humiliation and training contribute to the same purpose of getting the sub's mind right
that's funny, my sub's mind was fucking right all along. and my new sub oddly enough doesn't need any fucking training either.

to me "obedience training" is a sign of a bad fucking dom, one who can't inspire obedience from their sub so has to enforce it. if you have to beat her into submission, then what you're doing is neither dominating or submitting.

(in reply to lthrpup)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obedience Training - 10/30/2011 10:34:53 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Agreeing with Hannah. Have you noticed that women seem to be with the program, and the men seem to find it a game where they get their jollies?

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 7:19:32 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Not...all the men... 

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 7:48:23 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Humiliation doesn't work for me. It teaches me to run not to obey.

He didn't 'train' me to be obedient. He asked things that made sense to me so I had no reason not to do them. He explains if I don't understand. And most importantly he understood that this could only come if he proved he was someone worth being obedient to. Which took time, I had to see him in operation and learn that he made good decisions that would not harm me. There is no short cut for that.

And he regards the responsibilities as more important than the rights. He doesn't just want blow jobs on demand, he wants all the problems brought to him to solve.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 12:47:52 PM   
lthrpup


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sherrr

quote:

ORIGINAL: lthrpup
Humiliation can serve the same purpose of conditioning a sub to embrace their role and perform well but it is not the same as obedience training. Humility is a condition a sub accepts, obedience is something the sub has to perform. Both humiliation and training contribute to the same purpose of getting the sub's mind right, but they require different reactions and behavior from the sub.


What differences in reactions and behavior do you mean?

On the part of a submissive, humiliation is a passive; obedience training is active.

As an activity, humiliation calls for a submissive to accept (and perhaps enjoy) being lowered in position relative to the dominant. It could be as subtle as being made to wait at the door or as blatant as verbal abuse (the good kind). It can be challenging, evoking emotional reactions that may be unpleasant and elicit automatic psychological defenses. A submissive has to overcome such resistance and accept a condition of humility that ordinarily is suppressed or is contrary to the underlying vanilla sense of self that a submissive operates with in day-to-day life outside the presence of a dominant (e.g. during the day job).

Obedience training is a form of play that provides the experience of obeying. A D/s relationship and desire to obey is assumed. Doing it for fun should be considered an opportunity for bonding and conditioning the submissive to follow orders. I think it makes sense early in a relationship and hope it would still be enjoyable later.

(in reply to Sherrr)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 12:49:58 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lthrpup

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sherrr

quote:

ORIGINAL: lthrpup
Humiliation can serve the same purpose of conditioning a sub to embrace their role and perform well but it is not the same as obedience training. Humility is a condition a sub accepts, obedience is something the sub has to perform. Both humiliation and training contribute to the same purpose of getting the sub's mind right, but they require different reactions and behavior from the sub.


What differences in reactions and behavior do you mean?

On the part of a submissive, humiliation is a passive; obedience training is active.

As an activity, humiliation calls for a submissive to accept (and perhaps enjoy) being lowered in position relative to the dominant. It could be as subtle as being made to wait at the door or as blatant as verbal abuse (the good kind). It can be challenging, evoking emotional reactions that may be unpleasant and elicit automatic psychological defenses. A submissive has to overcome such resistance and accept a condition of humility that ordinarily is suppressed or is contrary to the underlying vanilla sense of self that a submissive operates with in day-to-day life outside the presence of a dominant (e.g. during the day job).

Obedience training is a form of play that provides the experience of obeying. A D/s relationship and desire to obey is assumed. Doing it for fun should be considered an opportunity for bonding and conditioning the submissive to follow orders. I think it makes sense early in a relationship and hope it would still be enjoyable later.




EXACTLY. Playing is a bonding experience. A useful submissive shouldn't have to be trained to obey. Encouraged, yes, rewarded, yes, but the desire needs to be there.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 6:03:26 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Agreeing with Hannah. Have you noticed that women seem to be with the program, and the men seem to find it a game where they get their jollies?



*Ahem!*

Not all of us Doms have this problem.



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Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 7:33:08 PM   
PrincessDonna11


Posts: 289
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline 		I train a sub to my specs but am NOT going to train them to be a sub!

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 7:48:43 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Agreeing with Hannah. Have you noticed that women seem to be with the program, and the men seem to find it a game where they get their jollies?



*Ahem!*

Not all of us Doms have this problem.





I beg your pardon, Endivius, I was referring to the male "submissives". The male doms certainly seem to understand what obedience means.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 8:56:56 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		It means fantasy land to me ....

Unless the true dynamics were that the bottom was so stupid that the Top actually had to train that person on how to function as a human being and "train" them to go through a daily schedual ... being that that person had no life, and didnt want one besides trudgery.

Or that the person is so sexually inept that they dont know how do anything in bed but just lie there. - and then you have to wonder about the Top, and how desperate or boring they must be to deal with/ choose someone like that.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 10:09:29 PM   
HannahLynn


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/16/2011
From: where its fucking at.
Status: offline
quote:

Obedience training is a form of play that provides the experience of obeying. A D/s relationship and desire to obey is assumed. Doing it for fun should be considered an opportunity for bonding and conditioning the submissive to follow orders. I think it makes sense early in a relationship and hope it would still be enjoyable later.
so what you're basically saying here is that its all an elaborate game to give you excuses to beat her ass. i have this really novel idea, how about the slut just fucking does what she's told, and you beat her all black, blue, and yellow whenever the fuck it takes your fancy? why the elaborate game? why the fucking fiction? instead of playing at owning and being owned, why don't you just own and be owned?

(in reply to lthrpup)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obedience Training - 10/31/2011 11:18:26 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynn

I have this really novel idea, how about the slut just fucking does what she's told, and you beat her all black, blue, and yellow whenever the fuck it takes your fancy?...instead of playing at owning and being owned, why don't you just own and be owned?...




This.

I don't see the attraction to "forcing" a submissive into obeying. They are submissive, even if you aren't a 24/7, only do it once a month kind of relationship, for the time that the sub is in the role, there shouldn't be any incentive or encouragement needed. S/he does or you find one that will. It's not a power exchange if you have to force it. Sure it might be hot for a scene to play the damsel kidnapped by the crazy Dom/me, but honestly on a regular basis. C'mon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

beg your pardon, Endivius, I was referring to the male "submissives". The male doms certainly seem to understand what obedience means.



Ah, I musta missunderinterpretestimated what you meant. My bad, carry on.

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Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obedience Training - 11/1/2011 10:46:52 AM   
lthrpup


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		When canine training was offered as an example, Sherrr enthusiastically agreed it was the sort of thing she meant by obedience training, the subject of her OP. I agree with her preference for treating the sub like a dog rather than having the sub imitate a dog. Of course, there are different tastes in play... which should be kept in mind when reading my comments (i.e. IMHO, etc). For those who are turned on by it, obedience training--canine or otherwise--is play that can plant and/or water subconscious seeds regarding following orders. Its purpose is not to teach an unwilling submissive to obey but to have obedience-themed fun with an eager submissive. For the shy types, whose hesitance should not be confused with disinterest in obedience, some amount of "training" when new may be considered an investment, even by the dominant who is not interested in that form of play.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lthrpup
Obedience training is a form of play that provides the experience of obeying. A D/s relationship and desire to obey is assumed. Doing it for fun should be considered an opportunity for bonding and conditioning the submissive to follow orders. I think it makes sense early in a relationship and hope it would still be enjoyable later.

If you are not one or have no interest in bashful subs, then consider this nothing more than a peek into the rationale of someone with a different perspective. It would be interesting to learn what subs who are ready to hit the ground running and dom/mes who scoff at obedience training would consider fun (in the context of this thread).

(in reply to lthrpup)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obedience Training - 11/1/2011 11:00:13 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Like umm yeah that would be nice. Sweet Lockits gone all shy on me at the mo, so being a total slut I gotta ask can we move it up the timescale please.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I like you, Nine. Maybe I'll sweep you up when Loxkit's done with you.




LOL... You slut! I can share... but you have something to learn about shy. There isn't anything shy about me... I just don't perform and am not a reactionary type. I like to call the shots for some odd reason. You like to create them Mr. Funny Guy. I do so enjoy your humor and the fun... but if you were on this side of that pond... a whole different thing would be goin on!


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obedience Training - 11/1/2011 11:09:58 AM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		I know.

xxx

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obedience Training - 11/1/2011 11:15:01 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lthrpup

If you are not one or have no interest in bashful subs, then consider this nothing more than a peek into the rationale of someone with a different perspective. It would be interesting to learn what subs who are ready to hit the ground running and dom/mes who scoff at obedience training would consider fun (in the context of this thread).


I've got a head cold and added to my natural state, I am having a difficult time expressing what I want to say. I need cold medicine! lol However, I do want to make a couple of comments. There are bashful submissives and those that are damaged bashful submissives, in my opinion. One I can work with and enjoy... the other needs some healing and depending on what degree of healing they need, determines whether I would attempt to assist or work with them. My typical answer with the damaged bashful... would be, I'm sorry, but no thank you. There is a reason they have this pain that never heals or hurdle they never get through and I don't think I would fit someone that harbors their pain like a badge of protection.

Simple bashfulness is welcome and can be fun, helping to bring out the little beast I want him to be. However, we do it my way. Each person is different and when I know a bit about where he is and who he is... I determine how I want to bring out that lil beast. He won't always be bashful. I want him free and bashful can hinder freedom.

Obedience in the form of playtime is fun, but obedience and a willing heart to be obedient to me is what I look for... then the obedience fun can happen. I've been known to use a leash or two.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obedience Training - 11/5/2011 6:16:42 AM   
COINT


Posts: 45
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		To me, obedience training has nothing to do with humiliation. For me, the most classic and perfect example of obedience training would be the close order drill I did back when I was a young woman
and a fresh private in the CDN Army. Platoon, atten-TION. to the left LEFT TURN. by the centre QUICK MARCH.

Which, by the way, I have ZERO interest in doing. I don't want to stand there and bark orders of no real importance for hours on end.

I'd rather my subs listen to me because they want to, or at least, because I coerced him/her in a more fun, creative and playful way.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obedience Training - 11/7/2011 10:33:43 AM   
hardbody0224


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		Obedience means obedience and it is one of the things a Dom must insist on (exclusive of hard limits or doing real physical harm). Humilation is something that will embariss a sub. The two (obediance and humilation) may be the same act but not necessarly so.

(in reply to Sherrr)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obedience Training - 11/7/2011 3:36:16 PM   
slaveforuse69


Posts: 26
Joined: 12/10/2008
Status: offline 		Look up the word Obedience....this might help you.

(in reply to MissToYouRedux)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obedience Training - 11/7/2011 3:50:02 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		FR.

I have a question. What exactly is it that you are supposed to be training a sub to do with this obedience training?

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Profile   Post #: 40
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