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RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 7:48:28 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

Meanwhile, a message has been sent to all police officers: Everyone, including those who have the day off, must show up for work on Wednesday. This is also being paid for by Oakland taxpayers. Last week’s events alone cost Oakland taxpayers over $1 million.

(from the link)
Talk about disingenuous. The city wasn't forced to invade the camping area at 0400h. The restraint shown by OOak is simply amazing. The very few instances of vandalism cost a fuck of a lot less than a million clams.

And all the whining in the regressive media about how much it costs to clean up places like Zucchini park, well, Portapotties are a fuck of a lot cheaper. Ballloonberg and Quack or whatever the fuck her name is, and the mayors in other cities, they never thought of that? The only way it seems these Bureaucretins are proactive is letting the Oinkers send in Agents Provocateur.

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RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 7:51:04 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is my point...you and I both agree that one bad apple should not taint a group... Some of your members have destroyed private property...did you ask them to leave also....some of your group cursed and physically assaulted police officers did you ask them to leave too....or did you make excuses for them just as police officers often do for their brothers.

Can you not see the hypocrisy here?

Butch

Those who assaulted were arrested, I do believe.

70 anarchists destroyed property in Oakland... and the protesters kept telling them to stop... in fact got them to stop attacking a Whole Foods store with about 200 people inside.

Now, Im sorry you cant see the difference here. But I will try and point it out to you.

I took an oath as a nurse....

I solemnly pledge myself before God and in the presence of this assembly, to pass my life in purity and to practice my profession faithfully. I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous, and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug. I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession, and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping and all family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling. With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician in his work, and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care.

If I break that oath, how many nurses will be there backing me? Not a single one.

Why are cops different?

Their Oath...

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge1,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution2
my community3 and the agency I serve.

http://www.theiacp.org/PoliceServices/ExecutiveServices/ProfessionalAssistance/Ethics/WhatistheLawEnforcementOathofHonor/tabid/150/Default.aspx

If they break their oath, its ok if the others protest and support them?
Why should they not be held to their oath as I am to mine?

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Post #: 22

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 8:02:22 PM

kdsub

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No I can't see the difference... I saw hundreds standing by cheering as they broke out the windows of banks...No one tried to stop them that I could see.

I am not trying to absolve these isolated police actions I am just trying to get you to see some of the actions of the occupiers are criminal and there is no excuse for them either. And just as I don’t think all protesters are criminals because of a few isolated incidents. you should not think all police are storm troopers out to beat up innocent protesters.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/3/2011 8:09:58 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 23

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 8:49:35 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

I am not trying to absolve these isolated police actions

Yes you are. Statistics are 1% go bad. And thats the ones we know about. out of 880,000 cops, I believe that is the number someone posted... that means 8,800 are bad.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 24

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 8:58:56 PM

kdsub

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I'm not sure where you are going with this unsubstantiated statistic... but the arrest rate in the US in general is around 4.5 percent from what I could find... could be wrong with that as well though.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 25

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 9:04:40 PM

tazzygirl

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Unsubstantiated?

“We’re finding the numbers are pretty constant,” said Neal Trautman, executive director of the National Institute of Ethics and author of “How to be a Great Cop.” “It is less than 1 percent.”

One of the largest studies on why cops may go bad found greed, anger, lust and peer pressure were at the top of the list.
Michael Josephson, president of the Josephson Institute of Ethics in California, said the pressures of the job, coupled with isolation from others in a community, can lead to cover ups of even the smallest of infractions.
“The notion can be there is a higher degree of loyalty to the person who backs me up than to the law or the public,” he said.
That can run deep in smaller communities, Josephson said.
“The smaller the department, the greater the problem,” he said. “Simply because the difference between rank is much less and the friendships are deep and personal.”

http://www.dailynewstranscript.com/archive/x1959832320/Good-cop-bad-cop-Statistics-show-less-than-1-percent-of-police-officers-run-afoul-of-the-law#ixzz1chqFqy6g

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/3/2011 9:07:15 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 26

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 9:14:52 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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I have no idea what you are trying to say... If he said less than 1 percent then how much less... If less then where do you get 8,800...If their rate is less than 1 percent and the general population is around 4.5 percent then that would say to me that police are more law abiding then the general public... and the general public is made up of occupiers right.... So your group is less law abiding then the police you are berating right?

I mean sounds right to me with our half assed statistics that mean nothing.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 27

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 9:25:28 PM

tazzygirl

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No one said they were less law abiding. The point is.. they should be more law abiding than what they are. 8000 are known.. how many are not known? Every profession has their bad apples. Police, politicians, lawyers, Doctors, nurses, accountants. But those entrusted with lives should be adhering closely to the law and their oaths.

If a nurse goes bad... no one supports her.. as they shouldnt.

A cop goes bad, and all his "brothers" are ready to protest for his release?

16 cops go bad and they protest outside the courthouse?

And what were they charged with?

The indicted 16 cops and five civilians all pleaded not guilty to a slew of charges that ranged from making tickets disappear to burying felonies.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/hammer_drops_on_tix_fix_cops_xOVjTvSoARvoV6eO1rdvCP#ixzz1chuAzOA0

Burying felonies is ok with those cops who are protesting?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 28

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 9:43:14 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

they should be more law abiding than what they are

They are...less than one percent is a hell of a lot better than 4.5 percent would you not agree...and why then are you continually supporting the 4.5 percent of occupiers that are criminals..oath or no oath. Criminals are criminals right?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/3/2011 9:44:11 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 29

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 9:56:55 PM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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Show me a study revealing that the Occupiers are 4.5% criminals.

This is an assumption on your part. Just because the general population is at that level, doesnt mean the Occupiers are. If that is your correlation, we can apply the same numbers to Cops, and they are also part of the general public.

Do you really want to admit the number of Cops that are actually dirty is over 39000?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/3/2011 9:57:59 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 30

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 10:01:54 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I don't need a study... you told me the occupiers were a cross section of the American public... remember... I said they were mostly young and naive... you said oh NOOOOO they are from every part of our society... Well if they are and 4.5 percent of the general population are criminals and your movement is made up of the general population then that would say 4.5 percent of you are crooks....:)

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 10:05:30 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Cops, and they are also part of the general public.

Hey you are the one with that statistic not me... which is it... your 1 percent or not?

Don't ask me to prove your statistics

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/3/2011 10:06:00 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 32

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 10:09:54 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Where are you getting the 4.5% figure?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 33

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 10:15:51 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I did a search for crime in in the US and the FBI has statistics on arrests and convictions by year and type. The 4,000 plus per 100,000 was for violent crime and property...it did not include traffic arrests.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/3/2011 10:19:09 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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Thats what I thought.

The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program counts one arrest for each separate instance in which a person is arrested, cited, or summoned for an offense. The Program collects arrest data on 29 offenses, as described in Offense Definitions. Because a person may be arrested multiple times during the year, the UCR arrest figures do not reflect the number of individuals who have been arrested. Rather, the arrest data show the number of times that persons are arrested, as reported by law enforcement agencies to the UCR Program.

Your numbers are very skewed.

And, on further reflection, do they indicate the number of Cops who are also arrested? if those numbers are not taken out, then the numbers for the general population you are insisting on are even more off.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/3/2011 10:23:47 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 35

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/4/2011 5:24:21 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I did a search for crime in in the US and the FBI has statistics on arrests and convictions by year and type. The 4,000 plus per 100,000 was for violent crime and property...it did not include traffic arrests.

Butch

Does that 4000 count charges separately or only individuals?

In other words, if I'm arrested for 15 counts (It's common for an individual to have multiple counts for one arrest) is that 15 crimes toward the total or is it just one person?
You could see how things could get really skewed there. One career criminal arrested 4 times in a year for a total of 75 counts (it happens and you wonder why they didn't just keep him the first time LOL) could fuck up the numbers for a whole small town and make it look like crime central when it's really just one guy.
He could count as 1 (person)
He could count as 4 (arrests)
He could count as 75 (crimes)

Just curious. ty in advance.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 11/4/2011 5:25:39 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/4/2011 9:12:08 AM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Cops don't give a fuck about statutes or ordinances they just want to arrest people and swing their sticks, and they want someone to take their heat and do the covering of their asses on legal avoidances, I don't see that as confused.

Truthfully, this day and age with the semi-gestpo antics and training of the police force, I really don't see how anyone could have so little fucking ambition or morals in their life that they become a cop.

95 to 99% of the police in any given municipality are in agreement with the article. They are people who are so straightlaced and honest that they wouldn't keep a dollar bill they found on the street if they knew who dropped it. All they want to do is do their job and help people.

I wish I knew why the FUCK they protect the dirtbags.

Because they're afraid. The scum might be the only patrol available to provide backup the next time they need it. Or the bad cop could be their watch commander who could punsh them in any number of ways. Or someone could drop a dime to IA and get their life turned inside out for a few months just out of spite. etc. etc.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 37

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/4/2011 10:49:38 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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This,the above.....great post KeN
That in a nutshell is why the "blue wall of silence" is such a pervasive fact of life.Butch earlier used a 4.5 % number to draw the distinction between tazzy's number of 1% of bad cops.Stating that 4.5 is the percentage of criminals of the general population....well if you are going to hang your hat on stats...beware you,yourself can be hung by those same stats.....you see Butch police departments the country wide are made up of those same people you just said were 4.5 percent criminal.
does it not follow that cops have a 4.5 % chance of having larceny in their hearts

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Post #: 38

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/4/2011 10:56:12 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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I would not wanna be a cop for all the tea in china or the prada in the universe.
Of course they have an issue with shitty cops, they also have a lot of bloody decent ones, having some in the family I respect them, I dont always agree with them, or their methods. But i am far from being a hater of the group. The fact that they put out a letter at all is in itself remarkable. How it will run in the future remains to be seen.I have some doubts, but if it moves forward and cops do get to be part of the protest even in a small way, the same as the Vets ... it can only help.
However I do think there will be some somwhere who wil only be to happy to do some head crunching
Human nature being what it is

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Post #: 39

RE: Oakland Police "We too are the 99%" - 11/4/2011 11:13:28 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because they're afraid. The scum might be the only patrol available to provide backup the next time they need it. Or the bad cop could be their watch commander who could punsh them in any number of ways. Or someone could drop a dime to IA and get their life turned inside out for a few months just out of spite. etc. etc.

That is the theory but I'm not buying into it and here is why.

If that were true, our military would do the same thing. They don't. They actively work to root our people who don't belong. They don't worry that if they're in a firefight and call for artillery or air or reinforcements that someone won't send help as retaliation becaue someone got court martialled and their ass is typically hung WAY farther out there than the police.
The NYPD was holding signs saying "It was done this way since the Egyptians" During that era (and until quite recently) it was common for a conquering army to sack, rape, pillage and burn. Does the US military do it that way now?
Is that a stupid question becdause the answer is so obvious LOL?
When the guards were being courtmartialled over Abu Ghraib did a coupla batallions show up to protest the trials saying "The Egyptians tortured prisoners, We should too". HELL NO.

The arguments that "This is the way we've always done it" and "I'm afraid of retaliation" are self serving bullshit to have an excuse for bad behavior.
You can only win "Hearts and Minds" if you are trusted. Openly flouting the law and protecting those who do is NOT the way to build trust among the community.

It's only 1%. Get RID of em.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 40

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