RE: Who is reasonable

RE: Who is reasonable (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Hillwilliam -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 6:40:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub He is a Democratic mayor as is the city so I don’t believe the proposed crackdown is politically motivated. Butch Butch. I snipped this because it seems to push what I feel is a misconception. OWS doesn't seem to be pro Demcrat or Pro Republican from what I can see. they are against politicians who are bought and paid for by special interests. Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in this respect so they would find themselves targeted for defeat as well. The only place I have seen OWS called liberal in the media is from the Right side. The right seeks to demonize them because it seems that some of the Wall Street Types are getting a bit nervous. At the same time, most of the mayors that are having them evicted are Democrats. It looks to be bass ackwards until you realize that Democrats have money men pulling their strings too. When the behind the scenes people pull strings, the puppets errrrr I mean politicians on both sides of the aisle dance to their tune. This is wrong. They should dance to our tune as we are the voters not to the tune of a few special interests. Does this sound reasonable? Ed for awkward wording.

kdsub -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 8:34:22 PM)
I certainly agree that Democrats...Republicans...and Independents can be corrupted by contributions from some special and business interests...In the past I've stated a simple effective way to stop this. But I think the Mayors in the case of OWS protests are between a rock and a hard place. Many Democratic mayors get their contributions from unions as well as business. The reason they are acting is because of the complaints they are getting from their voters. This slow build up of pressure in cities, not against the ideas, but against the cost, sanitary conditions and disruption of business that supports the citizenry. Otherwise they are getting tired of their parks and tax money taken over by protestors whose message, though loud and clear, is getting old. The mayors don’t want to act but have no choice. I’ve said all along… this protest will fail and fade because of the way it is being pursued. No consolidated direction or path of action… Just disrupting cities by taking over parks blocking streets and businesses is a sure fire way of changing the sympathies of people just trying to make a go in tough times. Butch

SternSkipper -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 10:01:29 PM)
quote: Bringing up a map of the place, all I see surrounding Kiener Plaza are strip mall businesses, an old courthouse, a couple of banks, a trade association HQ building, a Hilton hotel (filled with "local citizens"?? seriously?), and some chain restaurants that otherwise would be closed and not be doing business between the hours of 10 pm and 6 am. Here's the deal... Saying to the Public that the "Job Creator's" were being 'terrorized' didn't impress anyone. So then they highlight about 10 minutes of wayward acts by anywhere from 20 - 60 people with either no or highly questionable associations with OWS Oakland did some vandalism in a very limited area of Oakland (never mentioning things like whole foods being sandwhiched in between several of the shut-down banks... And never showing ANY OUTRAGE that one of the so-called renegade actions was to 'occupy a rather large HOMELESS SHELTER one of the BIG BAILED OUT FUCKING BANKS FORECLOSED upon pushing many hundreds of people into the streets.... REALLY!!!! THE BANKSTERS THROW HUMDREDS HOMELESS PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREET CITING 'IT'S JUST GOOD BUSINESS' after being bailed out by ALL OF US ... And we're supposed to worry if MAYBE 50 PEOPLE Broke some widows and burned a dumpster. Even though WE at least addressed the right people in trying to discourage the activity. Whereas the Police merely fired teargas projectiles and rubber bullets indiscriminately into crowds and roughed up homeless people who weren't quick enough to get out of their way. EternalHoH - You bring up an excellent point Mayor Menino actually said there were condos near the Dewey Sq Park system and made it sound like it is a vital park people use. What they really are is a bunch of 'parks put in place to deaden the vibration produced by the massive flow of traffic underneath from the now world famous Big Dig. Mayor Menino of course didn't correct himself, but stopped making the claim when radio talk show hosts laughed out loud at him during drive time the next day. Same way they did when he made his famous speech the morning after the Rose Kennedy Greenway Raid, saying "We have information that 40 Foreign Provocateurs have infiltrated Occupy Boston and ordered the occupation of the second park" He made a different version of that speech for almost every outlet in the greater Boston area. Problem with that first statement is that the nearest place that people are even around at night are a couple SWANK hotels blocks away from the site. And NO ONE EVER congregates in those parks. Ever that I have seen in my years of coming to the city since the dig's completion... it's just not convenient to. You can't build on top of them and they have dirt and shrubs on top because they would otherwise be huge tracks of ugly pavement. Hey let's look at how many poor poor people are being inconvenienced down in lower manhattan ... just regular guys and gals like me and you: http://www.thevisionaire.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=adv Or... Average Manhattan rents last month inched up 0.8 percent over August levels, according to MNS' September rental market report. That brought the average monthly rent for a Manhattan one-bedroom to $3,820 in a doorman building and $2,999 in a non-doorman building. Compared to the same period last year, average September rents rose considerably more, with rents for one-bedrooms up 9.4 percent, the report said. But the rental market may see a shift later in the season. Yep... This sure isn't Sherwood Forest Robin....

SternSkipper -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 10:02:49 PM)
quote: Occupy St. Louis will be ending in the next few days….at least occupy Kiener Plaza between 10PM and 6AM. The St. Louis Mayor in an attempt to deal with citizen complaints about occupiers and guarantee their rights to protest will be enforcing park hours. Yeah, you just be sure to let us know if that really happens.... EXACT same announcement and a brandy-new and lawfully insufficient curfew was imposed by the Nashville Mayor and enforced by the tennessee Governor... Result? ACLU got a decision that the law was essentially inadequate to deal with a civil rights exercise. So, what may actually happen there is the movement will be sidetracked for a bit. As it stands now I believe, every place in the country they have either routed or tried rout the protesters, the protesters have immediately returned and basically a stand off occurs. But let's not get the historic facts in the way of your prediction. I would like to SEE where the 'Occupiers' SAY they "will not leave peacefully" In those exact words.... What they probably said is we will resist or peacefully resist. Which means they will do what they do every where else. Sound a "Call For Direct Action" and have as many people as they can get to come down and occupy do so PEACEFULLY. And then they'll sit down of simply stand their ground and take an arrest. All the while informing the police involved that they are violating their constitutional right to free speech and redress of their government. But really, I am DYING to see where your claim is quoted as coming from someone that's a real OWS Local GA person. I also won't hang by my thumbs either.

SternSkipper -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 10:09:42 PM)
quote: He is a Democratic mayor as is the city so I don’t believe the proposed crackdown is politically motivated. I am SICK of seeing this morony that the party of a mayor even matters. Let me clue you in on something. Because of the directness of the actions that must frequently be undertaken be individuals holding the title of "Mayor" you will find a very distinctive distancing between the party and the individual EXCEPT in cases where they gain notoriety during certain national election cycles. So I really think your use of the title connected to a party is completely irrelevant. But as usual, bon appetite! [image]local://upfiles/18637/77BDC61D304346EC86ABDD73E19125D3.jpg[/image]

SternSkipper -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 10:14:43 PM)
quote: Butch. I snipped this because it seems to push what I feel is a misconception. OWS doesn't seem to be pro Demcrat or Pro Republican from what I can see. they are against politicians who are bought and paid for by special interests. Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in this respect so they would find themselves targeted for defeat as well. Blockhead syndrome... You know what these fools risk doing with their constant nagging insinuations? I'll tell you what they risk. They risk alienating the Movement to the degree where they very image of the opposing force becomes republican/right/wing/tea party./ whatever... and if that happens they will pay hard at the polling places. They don't seem to get that IF they could adopt a live and let live attitude about the movement, they might not see it polarize. They're worried about violence? Ha! They should worry about a good ass-fucking in the voting booth, brought on by their own ignorant abusive behavior.

SternSkipper -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/6/2011 10:28:18 PM)
quote: I’ve said all along… this protest will fail and fade because of the way it is being pursued. No consolidated direction or path of action… Just disrupting cities by taking over parks blocking streets and businesses is a sure fire way of changing the sympathies of people just trying to make a go in tough times. And you'd be wrong, just like you are wrong in inferring there's some vague 'health threat' and numerous other exhibitions of ignorance your posts have continually exhibited. I remember your inference there was a scientific method of measuring the crowd and never really exploring it other than to make a bunch of vague claims everybody's estimates were wrong, or wait "lies" I believe you stated at one point... then never furnishing any proof. And I really think that you kind of knew it would really be days before real numbers could be derived. And I think you also knew people were just reporting stuff they were finding on the web and not representing it as anything more than that.

Moonhead -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 4:26:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub who is reasonable Actually, Who hasn't been reasonable since he was Peter Davison: [image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/Fifth_Doctor.jpg/200px-Fifth_Doctor.jpg[/image] Everybody else they've had in the role since then has had issues.

erieangel -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 5:56:24 AM)
quote: The occupiers have said they will not leave peacefully. Actually, they said they would not leave. Period. The mayor will have them arrested for "trespass" or some other happy b.s. reason when they remain there past the park's hours. We are having a similar problem in Erie. The mayor shut off our power. And we have done everything to accommodate the city's wishes. The mayor had numerous complaints by a university which is located on the next block as well as Erie Insurance (which gets most everything it wants from the city, even redirecting the flow of traffic around the park). A few months ago, a local charity had obtained a permit to hold an event at the gazebo yesterday. We were asked to vacate for the day, which we did willingly. Upon returning to the gazebo last night, we thought the power had been restored, because the charity had had power, but they shut it off again. Media explained the loss of power as just "something the city does every Nov. 1 to winterize, but the park is lit up every year with Christmas lights (I guess it won't be this year). Last night, the permit guy Mr. Rocco, admitted to a few of us that the outlets we cut off on the mayor's order. First it was the tarps, then an order that we weren't permitted to sleep in the park, next it was the power. They just want us gone. BTW, the Constitution always trumps local laws and the Constitution says we have a right to peacefully assemble. Part of the protest is the 24/7 occupation of publicly-owned lands. Most of these local laws and ordinances came about after the protests of the '60s to crack down on the people who dare question authority. Here in Erie, we are about to go to court with a protester who is on oxygen and needs the outlets available for his oxygen tank or he can not attend many of our meetings.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 5:58:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel Here in Erie, we are about to go to court with a protester who is on oxygen and needs the outlets available for his oxygen tank or he can not attend many of our meetings. Americans with disabilities act?

erieangel -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 6:04:20 AM)
We are going with the First Amendment.

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 6:08:08 AM)
I would have gone with both.

SternSkipper -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 8:31:38 AM)
quote: Everybody else they've had in the role since then has had issues. All I know is I loved the series when he had the blonde with the beautiful eyes and the perky rack.

Moonhead -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 9:03:51 AM)
Lalla Ward? Yeah, she was great.

kdsub -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 11:17:15 AM)
quote: BTW, the Constitution always trumps local laws and the Constitution says we have a right to peacefully assemble I agree...does it also state that a municipality must provide you with power? quote: Part of the protest is the 24/7 occupation of publicly-owned lands I must have missed that part in the Constitution. But putting that aside would it make the protest any less effective if the protesters protested from 6am to 10 pm... I mean are they doing that now? What real benefit does it serve to alienate people by costing them tax money...disrupting their work and businesses...physically damaging their parks… when they want to be on your side? Butch

thompsonx -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 12:09:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I certainly agree that Democrats...Republicans...and Independents can be corrupted by contributions from some special and business interests...In the past I've stated a simple effective way to stop this. But I think the Mayors in the case of OWS protests are between a rock and a hard place. Many Democratic mayors get their contributions from unions as well as business. The reason they are acting is because of the complaints they are getting from their voters. The voters...any proof or is this just your opinion? This slow build up of pressure in cities, not against the ideas, but against the cost, sanitary conditions and disruption of business that supports the citizenry. You have that backwards. Business is supported by the citizenry. Otherwise they are getting tired of their parks and tax money taken over by protestors whose message, though loud and clear, is getting old. Those parks belong to all of us as does the tax money. The mayors don’t want to act but have no choice. Sure they do...they can join the movement or they can fight it, just like everyone else I’ve said all along… this protest will fail and fade because of the way it is being pursued. No consolidated direction or path of action… Just disrupting cities by taking over parks blocking streets and businesses is a sure fire way of changing the sympathies of people just trying to make a go in tough times. So by your measure the movement should be loosing support which does not seem to be the objective case. Butch

thompsonx -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 12:21:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: BTW, the Constitution always trumps local laws and the Constitution says we have a right to peacefully assemble I agree...does it also state that a municipality must provide you with power? quote: Part of the protest is the 24/7 occupation of publicly-owned lands I must have missed that part in the Constitution. It is in the first and fourteenth ammendment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution But putting that aside would it make the protest any less effective if the protesters protested from 6am to 10 pm... I mean are they doing that now? What real benefit does it serve to alienate people by costing them tax money I do not believe the constitution gives you or anyone else the right to tell someone else when or how to protest. How do you get from the protesters being in the park at night to costing the taxpayers money? What does it cost the taxpayers? Have you got a number? ...disrupting their work and businesses...physically damaging their parks… when they want to be on your side? Well that is kinda what a protest is all about isn't it?????making noise and letting folks know you are pissed and why? Butch

kdsub -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 6:00:21 PM)
Clinton agrees with me. "Take the Occupy Wall Street movement that has held protests from New York to Oakland. "They have an amorphous set of resentments for which I sympathize," he says. "I don't think Americans can continue this level of income inequality." But the protesters need an agenda, he says. "They need to have some idea of what they want the country to do. If I were in their position, I would invite politicians down to talk to them. I'd invite (New York) Gov. (Andrew) Cuomo down to talk to me. I'd invite the mayor down to talk to me in New York." The above is a way for the protesters to make a difference... Now they are losing support and will soon be marginalized...People want reason not ransom to get their cities and parks back. Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 6:59:51 PM)
Amazingly enough, Someone did a study on income inequality... The typical U.S. household headed by a person age 65 or older has a net worth 47 times greater than a household headed by someone under 35, according to an analysis of census data released Monday. While people typically accumulate assets as they age, this wealth gap is now more than double what it was in 2005 and nearly five times the 10-to-1 disparity a quarter-century ago, after adjusting for inflation. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57319521/u.s-young-old-wealth-gap-worse-than-ever/

erieangel -> RE: Who is reasonable (11/7/2011 7:10:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: BTW, the Constitution always trumps local laws and the Constitution says we have a right to peacefully assemble I agree...does it also state that a municipality must provide you with power? Of course not. However, power has been on in the gazebo non-stop for going on 6 years...free for any and all to use. All of a sudden, it is being shut off to occupyerie. quote: Part of the protest is the 24/7 occupation of publicly-owned lands I must have missed that part in the Constitution. We have the right peacefully assemble. The Constitution does not give restrictions on how we assemble. Occupiers have chosen to assemble 24/7. But putting that aside would it make the protest any less effective if the protesters protested from 6am to 10 pm... I mean are they doing that now? What real benefit does it serve to alienate people by costing them tax money...disrupting their work and businesses...physically damaging their parks… when they want to be on your side? If the city of Erie, PA can not afford to pay for the power of 2 lap tops then they certainly can not afford the $30,000 raise the city counsel voted to give the mayor. Butch

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078125