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RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 7:36:10 AM

NINASHARP

Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline

Jess,

I have an out spoken submissive who resides with me. We have, on occassion, had many differences in our views in vanilla topics, and I don't mind that he speaks his mind and can completely and rationally disagree with me and my thoughts. Sometimes I am also enlightened by his views as well. However, if he starts getting smart with me or even laughs during unappropriate times in the dungeon. I simply gag him. I think your new owners will find a remedy for you, or they probably wouldn't be wanting to take you further on that journey.

Nina

_____________________________

My stiletto boots fit like gloves around his wrists.. as I locked them on I knew we were a match!

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 21

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 7:42:42 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

If you are a "loud and mouthy" person, then why on earth would somebody take you on if they didn't want a "loud and mouthy" slave/submissive? I am a firm believer in not trying to change your partner's basic nature.....find one who is the type of person you want and go from there. If you want a doormat or quite as a mouse type, then look for a person who is already that.

Personally I want a submissive who has a brain and who uses it, and who is not afraid to have opinions and to express them...if i think the opinion is wrong I will say so, and then get ready for a good arguement/discussion. I am no different from other Doms in wanting my sub to agree with my opinions, where I might differ is in wanting my sub to agree because they actually do agree, either because they did originally or because they have honestly been persuaded that my opinion is correct, not simply because they are my submissive.

To me, a submissive is a person first, and a submissive second, and the stronger and more independant a person, the sweeter the submission is.

Arpig

Ya, Arpig, i was wondering the same thing. The Op seems to see her personality trait as a defect because her Master/Mistress have shown disapproval. However, They are the Dominants; why did They put her in her role if she didn't appeal?

i'm a mouthy woman myself; was a mouthy kid and probably a colicky baby for all i know. That's not gonna change.

candystripper

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 22

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 7:49:48 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

You can probably change yourself over time, but if you want more immediate results, concentrate of being a bit more careful with what you say, and how you say it.

You're not going to become less opinionated any time soon, but you can become someone that keeps their opinions to themselves, and you can do that right away.

You aren't going to be become less mouthy any time soon, but you can become someone that takes greater care in what they says, and how they say it. You can learn the age-old lesson that you can say almost anything, if you use a low voice and a cute smile.

You should also try to avoid discussing how intelligent you think you are. Look at the two examples below, and see the difference.

"W/we have tried this before, with little success, as it appears to be that i am too loud, mouthy, opinionated and intelligent to become a true sub/slave.... and quite frankly, i agree .... i am all of the above and more lol."

(edited)
"W/we have tried this before, with little success, as it appears to be that i am too loud, mouthy, opinionated to become a true sub/slave.... and quite frankly, i agree .... i am all of the above and more lol."

You should always leave it up to the other person to decide of you are, or aren't intelligent. Face it ... everyone thinks they are intelligent. The one's that talk about it, tend to look like they are masterbating.

That's my advice ... have a good day.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 5/26/2006 7:52:34 AM >

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 23

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 7:50:06 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I am a firm believer in changing my submissives, not a popular opinion, but one I do practice.

You need to develop what new age wackos like myself call an "inner observer", it is sort of an inner adult that watches over your actions. What you are trying to find is the real reason you express yourself in a loud and rude way. Just like some people who would prefer to shut up vomit words out of their mouth out of sheer nervousness. So, when they find a way to not be nervous they quiet down. So again, why do you express yourself in a loud and rude way?

Playing with a ball gag is a very interesting experiment, ESPECIALLY if YOU pay attention, very close attention, to the emotions you experience while wearing one.

Oh, it can be done too. I have a wonderful woman who is quite set in her ways, more experienced than myself who I play with. She is KNOWN as a brat, but she is learning to bite her tongue when she is with me and it makes me proud to no end. She does it not because I punish her, but because I show pride when I know she has bitten her tongue but I think the biggest thing is respect for me and the fact we both know I don't like brats.

So best of luck!

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 24

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 7:59:31 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I agree, anyone that thinks they have to be dumb to be a submissive isn't sub material. Basically I do not think it takes much brains to say whatever is on one's mind at any given time, only fools do that, and hun,. It takes tact to be truly wise as well as intelligent.

Edited because I did not need to be that harsh..lol

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/26/2006 8:01:45 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 25

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:08:25 AM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

Concentrate on finding a different approach for expressing your opinions and ideas. There are many ways of expressing yourself without sounding disrespectful or rude.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 26

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:11:00 AM

littlesubjess

Posts: 305
Joined: 2/2/2006
Status: offline

Hi A/all.

Whilst i would like to thank Y/you A/all for Y/your opinions and advice, i wish to add the following ...

i do not believe that all subs are stupid or not intelligent ... nor will i ever do ... that was my Owners' opinion, not mine. After all, it is me who is submitting, not Them, right ? However, i do understand how many P/people may have interpreted that differently. Apologies to A/anyone who may have been offended.

And... i would also like to state that whilst i am "loud", i dont mean i raise my voice or speak at high volumes, i just meant that i am talkative, mouthy, gobby, call it what you will ... i do think the gag (as a punishment) may work though ...

Thanks again to A/all ... i hope that this post will be clearer for Y/you A/all now.

jess xxx

_____________________________

And on the eighth day, He created Jessica ...

Anything is possible if you try hard enough ...... xxx

Only the one who hurts you can make you feel better. Only the one who inflicts the pain can take it away.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 27

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:14:50 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess

it appears to be that i am too loud, mouthy, opinionated and intelligent to become a true sub/slave.... i agree .... i am all of the above and more lol.

Subs and especially slaves are intelligent by definition; it is part of the package. The intelligence of doms may vary. Intelligence, though, is no factor in whether one is a sub, slave or a dom. Your intelligence is for your doms to be made use of. If they don't want an intelligent sub, they must do without and you will have to find a new owner who does appreciate you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess
However, it has caused problems between myself and my Owners in the past, and i know that i will never become that "elusive" (i hate that word lol) sub, if i continue to be such a gobshite (meaning loud and mouthy) ....

It may be a sign that you do not trust them and that you do not feel safe. Anyway, it is for them to study you, to understand and solve the problem and to dominate you. Your behaviour is their responsibility. You may assist them in this analysis by some inner self reflection.

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 28

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:17:25 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess
i do not believe that all subs are stupid or not intelligent ... nor will i ever do ... that was my Owners' opinion, not mine. After all, it is me who is submitting, not Them, right ?

i do think the gag (as a punishment) may work though ...

Well, this brings up a bit of a different issue. littlesubjess, I have to ask you if that is really your owners' opinion of submissives, why is it that you would wish to submit to them?

Also, on the point of the gag.....can you not take control of your own behavior and be responsible for it....thus negating the need for punishment?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 29

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:17:41 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Ladies Gentlemen.

I have learnt only to answer when I am spoken to and if they ask if I have anything to say then i would try and word it so that it would not hurt any ones feeling.

Just he honest and truthful with your owners and try not to back chat

gloriousangel

i agree with speaking to ANYONE with respect and propriety. For example, there's a 92 year old woman in our family i just adore, and in her presence, i'd never, ever allow the cursing i do routinely to escape my lips.

But to "speak only when spoken to'? i'd go batsh*t.....i am not a child <not that i raised my little one that'a way>.

At 52 i know....peacefulness is to be treasured. Much better to be happy alone than miserable with Someone.

candystripper

(in reply to gloriousangel)

Post #: 30

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:22:19 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess

Hi A/all.

Whilst i would like to thank Y/you A/all for Y/your opinions and advice, i wish to add the following ...

i do not believe that all subs are stupid or not intelligent ... nor will i ever do ... that was my Owners' opinion, not mine. After all, it is me who is submitting, not Them, right ? However, i do understand how many P/people may have interpreted that differently. Apologies to A/anyone who may have been offended.

And... i would also like to state that whilst i am "loud", i dont mean i raise my voice or speak at high volumes, i just meant that i am talkative, mouthy, gobby, call it what you will ... i do think the gag (as a punishment) may work though ...

Thanks again to A/all ... i hope that this post will be clearer for Y/you A/all now.

jess xxx

That changes my outlook on your comment completely, it is YOUR OWNERS that are rude, mouthy, and need to engage their brains before speaking, not you...lol. Anyone that thinks submissives lack brains was probably spawned in the shallow end of the gene pool.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 31

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 8:36:03 AM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess

Hi A/all.

Whilst i would like to thank Y/you A/all for Y/your opinions and advice, i wish to add the following ...

i do not believe that all subs are stupid or not intelligent ... nor will i ever do ... that was my Owners' opinion, not mine. After all, it is me who is submitting, not Them, right ? However, i do understand how many P/people may have interpreted that differently. Apologies to A/anyone who may have been offended.

And... i would also like to state that whilst i am "loud", i dont mean i raise my voice or speak at high volumes, i just meant that i am talkative, mouthy, gobby, call it what you will ... i do think the gag (as a punishment) may work though ...

Thanks again to A/all ... i hope that this post will be clearer for Y/you A/all now.

jess xxx

Are you sure that they're the right owners for you? They don't seem to value your strengths, or know how to help you progress in a positive way.

Anyone who complains that you're too intelligent to be controlled is exposing their own insecurities and inadequacies.

Be very sure before you commit to them.

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 32

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 9:01:07 AM

littlesubjess

Posts: 305
Joined: 2/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

That changes my outlook on your comment completely, it is YOUR OWNERS that are rude, mouthy, and need to engage their brains before speaking, not you...lol. Anyone that thinks submissives lack brains was probably spawned in the shallow end of the gene pool.

No, it isnt like that, my Owners arent rude or mouthy, in actual fact, They are very patient and understanding. They never raise Their voices to me, or speak to me in a way that They shouldnt (away from BDSM) ... i actually feel extremely lucky to have Owners like Them, as i know there are not many Dom/mes that would stand for my foul mouth, attitude and behaviour. That is why i posted this thread .... because i now realise how much i DO want to behave myself and submit to Them ... in order to show gratitude for what They have given me.

Does that sound a bit jumbled ? i know what i mean lol

jess xxx

_____________________________

And on the eighth day, He created Jessica ...

Anything is possible if you try hard enough ...... xxx

Only the one who hurts you can make you feel better. Only the one who inflicts the pain can take it away.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 9:10:42 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I erased my post and I am reposting a reply

There are many doms that like a spicy sub, it adds flavor to their lives. There are also some who do not like that so much. If you feel you need to become a more polite sub and that is a real deficit in you, well then do it. I have to question any dominants that would feel the need to denigrate submissives intellectual capacity and deem it inferior to their own. I do not view that as "domly". in fact I view it as being very insecure. If someone has to denigrate you to get your mouth in line, I have to wonder how dominant they are. I have to also say that you have to change yourself to be more polite .. Etc, they can only direct you, not change you, change comes from within or it isnt happening at all... Just my opinion

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/26/2006 9:15:51 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 34

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 9:20:33 AM

Wolf1020

Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline

Learn to live within limits and when you do feel the need to say something learn how to do so respectfully. Also whether or not you can keep your mouth shut when required or how submissive you can be has zero to do with intelligence. If you need to be thought well then that is something they will have to be willing to do. I for one just got out of a relationship with a submissive, one of the main reasons was her smart mouth and the fact that no matter what I did I couldn't get her to break the habit. From what I understand some dominants enjoy it, I for one do not. my subs are allowed to speak their mind but they must do so respectfully and I don't find a smart mouth cute.

If you can't learn though I suppose there is always duct tape.

_____________________________

"The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep at night."~ Otto von Bismarck

"Fish and visitors smell in three days"~Benjamin Franklin

(in reply to FloridaISIS)

Post #: 35

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 9:21:54 AM

wytchywoman

Posts: 510
Joined: 2/27/2006
From: Southeastern Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess

No, it isnt like that, my Owners arent rude or mouthy, in actual fact, They are very patient and understanding. They never raise Their voices to me, or speak to me in a way that They shouldnt (away from BDSM) ... i actually feel extremely lucky to have Owners like Them, as i know there are not many Dom/mes that would stand for my foul mouth, attitude and behaviour. That is why i posted this thread .... because i now realise how much i DO want to behave myself and submit to Them ... in order to show gratitude for what They have given me.

Does that sound a bit jumbled ? i know what i mean lol

jess xxx

At this point you sound like you're back peddling. You first started off by saying you were too intelligent to be a slave. Later on in this thread you stated that your owners said you were too intelligent to be a slave. Now you're being totally oblique.You may "know what you mean", but I highly doubt anyone else knows what you mean by now. Sounds more and more to me like you wish you had white out to erase your prior posts with.

-Shrug- May I also take time to point out that on a certain level you seem quite proud of your "foul mouth" and recalcitrant behavior? You seem to be intent on proving how much "real dominance" it takes for anyone to take control of you. Seems to me that you want to be recogonized for being the one that can't be tamed without a great deal of struggle.

< Message edited by wytchywoman -- 5/26/2006 9:24:17 AM >

_____________________________

Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 36

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 9:33:59 AM

ADomDoc

Posts: 312
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: San Antonio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
If you are a "loud and mouthy" person, then why on earth would somebody take you on if they didn't want a "loud and mouthy" slave/submissive? I am a firm believer in not trying to change your partner's basic nature.....find one who is the type of person you want and go from there. If you want a doormat or quite as a mouse type, then look for a person who is already that.

Personally I want a submissive who has a brain and who uses it, and who is not afraid to have opinions and to express them...if i think the opinion is wrong I will say so, and then get ready for a good arguement/discussion. I am no different from other Doms in wanting my sub to agree with my opinions, where I might differ is in wanting my sub to agree because they actually do agree, either because they did originally or because they have honestly been persuaded that my opinion is correct, not simply because they are my submissive.

To me, a submissive is a person first, and a submissive second, and the stronger and more independant a person, the sweeter the submission is.

There are only 2 reasons I can think why a Dom/me would take on a 'loud & mouthy' sub/slave (if that's not what they prefer)
1) The Dom/me is inexperienced (in life, in relationships & in dominance) or naive ... thinking s/he could change the basic nature of another person. It just doesn't happen. And even partial or temporary success will invariably lead to pent up anger in the sub/slave and it'll come out later. It can't end well.

2) The Dom/me is a desperately insecure newbie/wannabe loser who is willing to grasp onto anything that'll acknowledge him/her.

I can't think of any logical 3rd option. And if the wannabes are offended by the truth ... they are the joke ... so fuck 'em. YMMV

Kudos Arpig! It takes a confident Dominant to take on an intelligent sub/slave! It's easy to "control" a pain zombie who hasn't the ambition to select her own clothes. It's far more rewarding to have an intelligent, critical, voluntary, devoted sub/slave. I won't have it any other way. I expect it'll be a cold day in hell before I find another sub/slave 1/2 as good as my last one.

< Message edited by ADomDoc -- 5/26/2006 9:35:53 AM >

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 37

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 9:47:21 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

Put a 'dum-dum' sucker in your mouth since you cannot talk with your mouth full or another hard candy. It works, during the holidays with my nilla family I do that, I just put something in my mouth or when I get upset with a partner, I put a sucker in my mouth, it keeps my mouth occupied and I don't say something that way.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to FloridaISIS)

Post #: 38

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 10:25:55 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess
No, it isnt like that, my Owners arent rude or mouthy, in actual fact, They are very patient and understanding. They never raise Their voices to me, or speak to me in a way that They shouldnt (away from BDSM) ... i actually feel extremely lucky to have Owners like Them, as i know there are not many Dom/mes that would stand for my foul mouth, attitude and behaviour. That is why i posted this thread .... because i now realise how much i DO want to behave myself and submit to Them ... in order to show gratitude for what They have given me.

Does that sound a bit jumbled ? i know what i mean lol

It is starting to sound fake.

You have gotten good advice on this thread. Ponder it and ponder your options.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/26/2006 10:27:48 AM >

(in reply to littlesubjess)

Post #: 39

RE: How Do I Learn To Keep My Mouth SHUT ? - 5/26/2006 10:30:17 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wytchywoman

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess

No, it isnt like that, my Owners arent rude or mouthy, in actual fact, They are very patient and understanding. They never raise Their voices to me, or speak to me in a way that They shouldnt (away from BDSM) ... i actually feel extremely lucky to have Owners like Them, as i know there are not many Dom/mes that would stand for my foul mouth, attitude and behaviour. That is why i posted this thread .... because i now realise how much i DO want to behave myself and submit to Them ... in order to show gratitude for what They have given me.

Does that sound a bit jumbled ? i know what i mean lol

jess xxx

At this point you sound like you're back peddling. You first started off by saying you were too intelligent to be a slave. Later on in this thread you stated that your owners said you were too intelligent to be a slave. Now you're being totally oblique.You may "know what you mean", but I highly doubt anyone else knows what you mean by now. Sounds more and more to me like you wish you had white out to erase your prior posts with.

-Shrug- May I also take time to point out that on a certain level you seem quite proud of your "foul mouth" and recalcitrant behavior? You seem to be intent on proving how much "real dominance" it takes for anyone to take control of you. Seems to me that you want to be recogonized for being the one that can't be tamed without a great deal of struggle.

I have to agree. If your owners aren't rude and mouthy but you are (OP), then it seems the only mistake they have made is in their assessment that "you are too intelligent to be a sub". If that is their belief...that intelligence negates submission, it is a wrong belief. If it is your belief, coming from their comments about your mouthiness, then you are being unfair to them. You are equating their displeasure with your "mouthiness" as a statement that "you are too intelligent to be a true sub/slave". Which is it, exactly?

As I said in an earlier post, perhaps full submission isn't your gig. Perhaps these people are not the right owners for you. You have to look at yourself...do all dominants complain about your "mouthiness"? If so, then it sounds like the problem may be yours. If your owners' complaints about your rudeness and mouthiness equate, by their words, to you being too intelligent to being a sub, then the problem IS theirs. If your owners' complaints about your rudeness and mouthiness equate in YOUR mind to you being too intelligent to be a sub, then again, the problem is yours.

(in reply to wytchywoman)

Post #: 40

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