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Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 8:20:37 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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There's a thread on the FL Masters & slaves group about control-based dynamics, and how they differ from service-based ones. Some of the replies chime in with "well my relationship is XYZ-based."

I consider myself a service-oriented person, but to me, they're all kinda wrapped up together. I kinda think I'll just start saying "I'm looking for Metallica-based relationship dynamics." (see sig for reference)

Sometimes I think it's a case of overthinking? Sometimes it's a case of semantics? Though I can see how the motivations for the people involved can be wildly different, even if the end result is similar, so in that sense it's not really semantics at all...

If you feel like talking about it, what do you think is the basis of your relationship? Control? Service? Authority?
I know we have people who are in relationships where they don't "feel submissive," but instead just "do as told." We also have people who do feel submissive, and who feel "servicey" -- but how do you define that?

To me, control is a detail thing, and service is an overarching thing, but all of them are aspects of the most important concept, which is obedience, based on his authority. =p At least that's how it works to me. So i don't really see them as totally different exclusive concepts. To me, as I said on FL in case you know what thread I'm talking about, control is the detail of what you wear, where you go, what you eat and when, blah blah blah -- but to me, that's an aspect of service because by submitting to that control, I'm in service to whatever the D's designs are. To me, they're all interconnected and spaghetti-like. =p

I'll stop rambling before I confuse myself. I remember a thread on a similar topic, but it was quite a while ago, and I don't remember who started it in order to search it and reference it. I feel like my opinions are a little better formed now than they were, then. 


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 8:51:45 AM   
littlewonder


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I guess for us it's a power based dynamic and for us that involves everything...control, service, obedience, authority, etc....

I am attracted to him because he is authoritative. He gets off on that power he has over me. I get off on the power he holds over me. I like serving him because to me it's natural and I like knowing he's happy. He controls me through his power and authority over me.

To be honest I never even think about all this. It just is part of who we are. It's the natural flow of our relationship.



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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 9:00:39 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
It just is part of who we are. It's the natural flow of our relationship.




that's the important part to me, at the end of the day. no matter how regimented and spelled out and "here's my list o' thingies" an interaction is, if there isn't a natural basis to it, it won't work -- at least for me.

sometimes i think it's just really overthinking. i used to get all tangled up in the designators and stuff (i'm sure i've got posts of that nature floating around here somewhere), but i've been thinking for a while about just dropping all the labels and leaving it at that. =p

to me, all of those components are wound up in each other; i can't separate them and say "i want a dynamic with an X basis, not so much Y basis" -- to me they all come together.


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 10:20:51 AM   
agirl


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Authority.

That's what our relationship is based on. Things like control, service and obedience are there to varying degrees at various times but those things aren't what our relationship is based on. They are things that occur BECAUSE he has authority over me.

Without that authority I'd choose what control I'd accept, and I'd obey and serve if and when I felt like it.

His authority doesn't rest in my obedience either. I'm not always obedient, so he deals with that as and when it arises, either by forcing me or by making it very unpleasant not to. Either way, by hook or by crook, I always fall in line.

That could never happen if he didn't have authority over me.

agirl












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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 11:57:00 AM   
Kaliko


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I can't tell you how many times I've typed out in a post "I'm a service submissive" and then deleted it. I do consider myself primarily a service submissive because what does it for me is doing things for him. But as you say....isn't it all really intertwined? So I have usually deleted that term because it almost seems redundant. Aren't we all in the service of our dominant partner?

Now, perhaps I am more service oriented because I would consider it normal and desired for part of our arrangement to be me doing things for him outside of sexual activity - ironing, grocery shopping, etc. But I have a hard time thinking what a submissive relationship would be without those things. I am sure there are submissive women who don't do, say, housework. But I wouldn't even know how to begin to define my own submissiveness without being able to say I will do whatever he wants, no matter how dreary.

As far as authority...yes, of course, I have turned over authority to him. Regarding control, though... I have since learned that by control, I want my body to have a response to him whether or not my mind is willing. I don't want to be controlled because I have been trained to avoid punishment, and I am not a submissive who would dare to deliberately disobey, so I don't even think that's an issue. I do very much like the idea of being trained in a way that certain responses simply don't require any thought process at all. I just do. I don't choose to do. I just do.

Again, maybe this is how every or many submissive women feel. I don't know.

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 12:00:39 PM   
myotherself


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I really don't know how to define my relationship. The intensity of our relationship is so different to any other that I've had, and it all feels very new even though we've been together nearly a year.

Primarly I guess he has the authority. He decides, I do. I like to look after him too, so that's a service bit. He's not a micromanager, so I guess I would categorise what we have as more "obedience" than anything else.

Damn, now you've got me thinking

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 12:33:45 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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They use a lot of words on Fetl.

My biggest "fetish" is obedience. DO AS YOU'RE TOLD. That might be getting me a coffee, or wearing the blue pinstripe suit, or whatever. Does that I don't care if he uses the loo without asking mean I don't have "control"?

Honestly, too much yammering sometimes creates confusion instead of clarity.

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 12:37:16 PM   
Wheldrake


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I agree that it's possible to make too much of the distinction, but I think there is at least a real difference of emphasis between control and service. As I see it, service is more about the submissive actively doing things to fulfill the dominant's needs and wants, whether that involves sucking cock or loading the dishwasher. Control is more about the dominant taking over personal decisions that would normally be made by the submissive, like when to go to bed or what to wear to a party.

There's definitely a big overlap between the two. I don't have a huge amount of service or control in my current relationship, but when my girlfriend gets into a dominant mood I find myself experiencing a bit of each. Once in a while, for example, she'll tell me to shave my pubic hair for her. Is that more about control (she's deciding how I should groom myself) or service (I'm taking actions, namely the action of shaving, for her aesthetic pleasure)? I would argue that there are elements of both. But when she tells me not to masturbate, and the only pleasure she gets out of it is the pleasure of making me squirm in frustration, that seems like pure control. When she tells me to vacuum her floor, that seems like pure service. (Admittedly, she's "controlling" how I spend my time, but only to the extent needed to make me serve her.) I agree that both could fall under the heading of obedience, but to me the service and control aspects of the relationship look less like intertwined strands of spaghetti than like sausages that happen to overlap somewhat on the plate, both covered in obedience sauce. Or something.

That just leaves submission, in the literal sense of letting her do things to me, and helplessness. I would count each of those as another overlapping sausage, though only submission would have the obedience sauce.

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 1:20:11 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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I agree that sometimes yammering does create more confusion than clarity; that's been my experience when it comes to a lot of the "which word is it?" convos...
I do see service as being active like Wheldrake says, but also I see it as the willingness to do. Like Kaliko, I have a hard time envisioning an s-leaning existence without the typical "servicey things," and I agree that it all gets a little redundant. :p
That said, I like to think and turn thinngs over and around in my mind, so this has been thought-provoking for me.

For me, it all begins with recognition of authority, and everything is all caught up in that. :p it's something, too, that I feel compelled on; the interaction is a product of him being him and me being me in close proximity. Haha


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 2:10:00 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

There's a thread on the FL Masters & slaves group about control-based dynamics, and how they differ from service-based ones. Some of the replies chime in with "well my relationship is XYZ-based."

I consider myself a service-oriented person, but to me, they're all kinda wrapped up together. I kinda think I'll just start saying "I'm looking for Metallica-based relationship dynamics." (see sig for reference)

Sometimes I think it's a case of overthinking? Sometimes it's a case of semantics? Though I can see how the motivations for the people involved can be wildly different, even if the end result is similar, so in that sense it's not really semantics at all...

If you feel like talking about it, what do you think is the basis of your relationship? Control? Service? Authority?
I know we have people who are in relationships where they don't "feel submissive," but instead just "do as told." We also have people who do feel submissive, and who feel "servicey" -- but how do you define that?

To me, control is a detail thing, and service is an overarching thing, but all of them are aspects of the most important concept, which is obedience, based on his authority. =p At least that's how it works to me. So i don't really see them as totally different exclusive concepts. To me, as I said on FL in case you know what thread I'm talking about, control is the detail of what you wear, where you go, what you eat and when, blah blah blah -- but to me, that's an aspect of service because by submitting to that control, I'm in service to whatever the D's designs are. To me, they're all interconnected and spaghetti-like. =p

I'll stop rambling before I confuse myself. I remember a thread on a similar topic, but it was quite a while ago, and I don't remember who started it in order to search it and reference it. I feel like my opinions are a little better formed now than they were, then. 



(Please let me stress that I am NOT in a relationship. When I talk about being in one, I am speaking from my past experience)

For me, it's always just been easiest to tell others that I am not submissive, yet I do as I am told simply because to do otherwise, is to leave. However, I did NOT always do as I was told. I often pushed until I was literally pushed back. Sometimes, I will try and explain it by saying that he 'would play with me and allow me to push, until he got tired of playing and then things got serious".

Am I submissive? Not in the sense that most here would define being submissive. I was raised to defer to the man of the house, at the time, that being my father. Typically, I rebelled against that, yet I always knew that I could only push my father so far before he put his foot down and demanded obedience.

Am I service oriented? Not in the sense that most here would define one as being so. I like to do things for others simply because I like seeing the look on their face or in their eyes afterwards. It's a selfish feeling for me, not a selfless one.

Am I authority oriented? Probably more so than I am submissive or service, but not entirely. I respond more to authority than I do to anything else. I recognize the NEED for authority, and I acknowledge my desire to respond to it.

Am I control oriented? No. I NEED to retain control of MYSELF at all times. It is not something that I can ever give to someone else willingly. Can I share control? Absolutely.

With all that said, I really don't fit into any category that could be logically defined under the umbrella of BDSM.

But that's ok. I am ok with being unique

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 2:18:57 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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You're not weird on the service thing; I dont't think of service as being selfless either; it's fulfilling to me todo it because I like to see other people happy. I don't think anything people do is ever really selfless; at some point it's a reflection of what's important to that person, regardless of the side of the slash.

I'm not in a relationship either; I'm either talking about the past or talking about stuff I've learned during this service thing, but it's not what i'd call a relationship.

Anyway, your perspective is always so unique, so thanks for contributing :)

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 3:59:27 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

what do you think is the basis of your relationship?
We are in love.

Now if you mean the basis of the D/s aspect of the relationship, then the answer is equally simple: Wet Panties. All of it is just a means to achieving that end.

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 4:12:54 PM   
kalikshama


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+ 1 for wet panties

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 4:32:30 PM   
tazzygirl


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Hmm...

Its like those matryoshka dolls (the one's that are nestled). We went from Dominant vs submissive.... then submissive vs slave... now service vs bedroom....

Just seems like we are working very hard to pigeon hole ourselves.

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 4:44:00 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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that's what a lot of the conversations on FL seem like to me (especially then later you see in FL Suggestions, someone asking for a new relationship status option that might've come out of one of these conversations) -- at the same time, though, i still think it's interesting to think about.

it only really becoming pigeonholing if you define yourself solely by one thing. i don't think there's anything wrong with wasting time yammering about motivations, especially when there's not much else going on around here. =p


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 4:52:43 PM   
fragilepieces


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Good question but honestly I have never thought about it.   I don't really consider myself A submissive but more so a person with a submissive personality.   

I am controlled IF it is my choice at the moment to be control because honestly only I can control me---either I will or I won't it's a simple as that.    Service---well---I do like to clean and I do think that Mr. Clean is pretty sexy---and my partner does tell me "Sweetie Mr. Clean comes in scents not flavors you are not supposed to eat it."    


I am just not sure.  


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 6:45:00 PM   
DesFIP


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Emotional transparency.

If you're obedience wired, you get warm fuzzies from doing what you're told.

If you're service wired, you get them from doing things for your partner.

I get  them from being fully known. From being emotionally vulnerable.


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 6:53:30 PM   
SweetCheri


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I really don't know how to answer this, so I will just start typing and see where I end up. The appeal to me is mostly one of comfort. That's not really the word I want, I am more comfortable with a structured environment. I like hierarchical situations where I understand where everybody sits in relation to others, I feel safe like that. I find much of the world and life intimidating, and having people who watch out for me and who will take responsibility makes me feel safer, I feel stronger for some reason.

Service isn't really a motivation for me in my relationships, more just in my life. I never really heard the term service oriented before coming here, but it seems I am service oriented. I am always happy to get up and get somebody a drink or a snack, no matter who they are, it just makes me feel good to be useful and helpful. I enjoy housework, it relaxes me, the routine of it is satisfying to me on a very deep level, particularly ironing and folding laundry. So I don't think you can really say I am doing for them, I am doing it for myself really.


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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 7:03:38 PM   
JanahX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

There's a thread on the FL Masters & slaves group about control-based dynamics, and how they differ from service-based ones. Some of the replies chime in with "well my relationship is XYZ-based."

I consider myself a service-oriented person, but to me, they're all kinda wrapped up together. I kinda think I'll just start saying "I'm looking for Metallica-based relationship dynamics." (see sig for reference)

Sometimes I think it's a case of overthinking? Sometimes it's a case of semantics? Though I can see how the motivations for the people involved can be wildly different, even if the end result is similar, so in that sense it's not really semantics at all...

If you feel like talking about it, what do you think is the basis of your relationship? Control? Service? Authority?
I know we have people who are in relationships where they don't "feel submissive," but instead just "do as told." We also have people who do feel submissive, and who feel "servicey" -- but how do you define that?

To me, control is a detail thing, and service is an overarching thing, but all of them are aspects of the most important concept, which is obedience, based on his authority. =p At least that's how it works to me. So i don't really see them as totally different exclusive concepts. To me, as I said on FL in case you know what thread I'm talking about, control is the detail of what you wear, where you go, what you eat and when, blah blah blah -- but to me, that's an aspect of service because by submitting to that control, I'm in service to whatever the D's designs are. To me, they're all interconnected and spaghetti-like. =p

I'll stop rambling before I confuse myself. I remember a thread on a similar topic, but it was quite a while ago, and I don't remember who started it in order to search it and reference it. I feel like my opinions are a little better formed now than they were, then. 



where the fuck do people find time to do all this shit? Im at work 99% of the time. And when Im not at work, Im getting ready or driving to or from, and when Im done ... Im fucking exausted. Then in my free time Im taking care of all the little shit I dont have time for when Im at work.

Do people really get off from getting finished with work to come home and work and be pushed some more? Or are most people independently wealthy or have boundess amount of energy and dont require relaxation - quiet time?

When I read shit like this, I am boggled.

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RE: Service? Authority? Control? Obedience? What??? - 11/7/2011 7:07:07 PM   
littlewonder


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although I don't work right now, I do have school and I still do  his chores, my chores, whatever else he tells me to, I cook, clean, run errands, etc...why? Because I'm his slave and it's what I agreed to. Do I always enjoy it? No...I hate to clean and not much of a cook. Do I like having to do his stuff and my stuff? Not really. Am I tired some days and don't want to? You bet...I do it anyway. Why? Because I'm his slave and I like knowing it makes his life easier which in the end makes him happy which in the end makes me happy.




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