TreasureKY
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From: Kentucky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
What do you think "flip flop" means? Its all he has done.. and its what I am bitching about with him.
Tell ya what, Treasure... start here
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/herman-cains-top-flip-flops/story?id=14790284
And we can go from there.
First of all, I wouldn't consider those "policy reversals". We could talk about some real policy reversals by looking at these... The U-turn president: Barack Obama's top ten flip-flops (written by a Brit, no less)... but I'm not concerned about those either, really. I understand that political candidates make all sorts of statements and promises during their campaign that, once in office, they end up changing position. I'm well aware that, where it's somewhat easy to take black/white theoretical positions, real life has a tendency to show itself in a multitude of color.
But lets look at the "flip-flops" outline in the article you linked, and why they don't concern me too much.
Abortion
So Cain doesn't appeared to be consistent in the sound-byte quotes shown in the article. If someone is looking for a ideologue position of "abortion should be completely legal" or "abortion should be completely illegal", I can understand their frustration. However, I have no problem understanding what Cain has said because I feel very similarly.
I don't like abortion. I don't think abortion is right. I don't think abortion is ever the only solution to an unwanted pregnancy, nor ever the best solution. From a moral and principal point of view, I think abortion is murder. I'm sickened at the thought of all the lives that have been sacrificed for the sake of convenience.
I'm a strong advocate of personal responsibility. There's a sure-fire way to guarantee that you'll not have an unexpected and unwanted pregnancy... don't have intercourse.
Oh, I know the arguments... what about rape and incest? What if the mother's life is endangered?
I still think abortion is murder, but the individual circumstances are what take this away from the theoretical realm of black and white. Life isn't always neat and tidy, and it certainly isn't always fair.
I also understand that my personal moral position isn't equally shared and that at this point in time, abortion is a legal procedure. I also recognize that sometimes we are faced with very difficult decisions to make in life that don't follow some easy rule. While it is easy to sit back and judge others, it isn't always so easy when you are faced with a problem yourself. Sometimes we just have to do what we feel is best for ourselves at that particular moment and place in our lives. In difficult situations, I've had to make choices that went against my own moral beliefs (I'm talking my personal convictions... not some religious mandate). Sometimes I've regretted those decisions, sometimes I have not.
So where do I stand? About where Herman Cain stands. I believe in the sanctity of life. I'm not convinced that all abortion should be legal. I'm also not so sure the Government should be our moral guide in this issue, either. It's too easy to rationalize issues with "it's legal so it must be good" or "it's illegal so it must be bad". It's a very thin line between ending a life at the beginning because it is unwanted or inconvenient, and terminating one at the end because it is unwanted or inconvenient.
Electric Border Fence
Personally, I liked the idea of a moat filled with alligators. 
It is obvious that Cain shouldn't allow his dry humor out so much. Some people cannot understand it, and no... sometimes it isn't appropriate.
Nevertheless, have you ever tried to explain a joke to someone after the fact? Particularly dry or sarcastic humor? Ever try to repeat that humorous remark in a different situation or with a different audience? It often falls flat.
Try watching the actual footage where Cain talks about his idea of a border fence. It's easier to understand the context and intent.
Of course, if you are predisposed to dislike the man, it may not help.
Muslims Cabinet Members
Here's a video that appears to be the origination. If you'll watch the entire clip, it becomes apparent that his very first response, "No. I will not." was knee-jerk and his following comments were a little off with regard to the direct question.
I will agree that this was an inappropriate response. I think he was aware of it, too, and was quick to backtrack. Considering the emotional condition of our nation and that many people now are quick to automatically equate "Muslim" with the religious extremists (much like it is becoming for those who are called "Christian"), I consider this this to be an understandable faux-pas. He has since apologized, and I'm sure he is much more aware of the need to be more considerate in this area.
Three-Page Bills
Again, humor... this time via hyperbole. He makes his point, and it is a good one as far as I'm concerned. I don't see a flip-flop... merely an explanation for those who don't understand hyperbole.
TARP
Cain explained fairly reasonably his position in the beginning of this video. I doubt very seriously that he is the only person in the world who previously thought the bailouts were a good idea, and now do not. Sometimes, hind sight is 20/20.
Guantanamo Bay Prisoner Swap
This is the problem I have with the media. You cannot simply read what they write and believe that you've heard the truth. In this section of the article you linked to, here is what is alleged:
In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer the afternoon before the Las Vegas debate, Cain said he would consider a prisoner swap similar to the Israel-Hamas exchange that took place this week. In the Middle East trade-off, one Israeli soldier was released in exchange for 1,027 Palestinians.
Blitzer asked Cain if he would hypothetically support releasing the "several hundred" prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for one American soldier, if "Al Qaeda or some other terrorist group" demanded it.
"I could see myself authorizing that kind of transfer," Cain said.
When asked the same question a few hours later during the debate, Cain said "I would never agree to letting hostages in Guantanamo Bay go."
Here is the actual interview with Wolf Blitzer. Context makes a difference here. Watch the entire minute and a half.
After Cain carefully saying that he understood that Netanyahu must have made serious deliberations of all available information prior to making his decision, Blitzer asked Cain to imagine he were President and there was one American soldier who had been held for years, and the demand by Al-Qaeda or some other terrorist group that you have to free several hundred prisoners from Guantanamo Bay, could he see himself as President authorizing that kind of transfer.
Cain's answer was far more than a simple, "I could see myself authorizing that kind of transfer". There was an immediate "but" followed by a detailed explanation. Interesting that that was left out.
I will point out that there is a distinct difference in meaning between saying "hypothetically support" and "seeing himself". Like many journalists, the way they phrase things can greatly change perspective. I watched a piece of footage the other day where Cain had raised his voice to be heard over a group of journalists. Later on, I read two different accounts of the incident... one where the journalist said Cain "screamed" and the another where the journalist described Cain as "shouting". Neither verb was accurate and both were an example of where choice of words can influence the reader. Too often, I believe it is deliberate.
With regard to this article quoted above, the very last paragraph is completely incorrect. During the debate and in response to the moderator's question, Cain never said, "I would never agree to letting hostages in Guantanamo Bay go." You can confirm this for yourself by watching a clip from the debate.
At any rate, I don't consider this to be a flip-flop, at all. I think Cain's initial interview was perfectly clear.
Federal Reserve Audit
Here is the audio clip from the Neal Boortz radio show that is mentioned. And here is a clip showing his response to Ron Paul. Cain has continually expressed a disinterest for an audit. His message seems fairly consistent.
Now, if you see these as "flip-flops", that's on you; you're entitled to your opinion. However, please don't get upset when I disagree. I'm entitled to my opinion that you are being unreasonably harsh with your criticism.
With regard to the accusations of sexual harassment, I have no particular opinion as to whether he's guilty or not. I do tend to favor the opinion that it is a non-issue. Primarily because of the timing of these accusations, but coupled with the thought that, were these offenses true and egregious, then the "victims" wouldn't have been so easily bought off. It obviously was not that big of a deal 15 years ago. Why should it be now?
Seriously... if you were mauled and sexually harassed, would a few dollars make you all better?
If it does come out that Cain is a cad who has, throughout his business life, used his position to sexually molest women and force his attentions onto them, I'll rethink my opinion. But it's going to take more than anonymous reports, and (in my opinion) one woman's dubious assertions.
< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 11/11/2011 8:21:52 PM >
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RE: Cain Accusers' Press Conference ... - 
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