RE: Breastfeeding In Court?

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xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 7:12:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop aww, c'mon.. you woulda known me as the tart that I am!! grin Yeah, but not everything's as easy as...oh...erm...uhm...yeah...nm... hugs

GreedyTop -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 8:11:00 AM)
smooch!!

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 8:30:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror It is a symptom of their entitlement, yes. Are you honestly trying to tell me that women who squat out kid after kid so they can get more welfare don't exist? Are you honestly trying to tell me that mom's who take their screaming spawn to movie theaters for R-rated movies don't exist? Are you honestly trying to tell me the kids I see throwing tantrums in restaurants with uncaring parents don't exist? Are you honestly trying to tell me the news stories featuring an irate mother, furious over her child being disciplined in school when it wasn't being done at home don't exist? Bullshit. It's all a symptom of the same problem. I'm afraid that just because there is lots of sloppy parenting going on all around the place doesn't mean that, on the SINGLE issue of breastfeeding when out with an infant, they go hand in hand. I most certainly do NOT think my children are the be all and end of of the universe. I was certainly entitled to take my children to all sorts of places but if they mis-behaved in the remotest they were removed. By the age of 3yrs I could take my children anywhere. I didn't breastfeed whilst out and about through any sense of entitlement, it was purely practical (and normal, as I've said before). This is how infants are fed. If I could find a nice quiet spot I would, as I preferred the peace and solitude. As I said before, if I could leave my infant at home while I did necessary tasks, that's exactly what I did. If that wasn't possible (which it wasn't, always) they came with me. Your rants are extremely one-tracked and one sided, and you seem to link ALL breastfeeding mothers into one baby-squatting, welfare-scrounging, sloppy-parenting group. It's not the case. This is one issue, that stands alone, and you don't seem to be able to seperate it. Did you survey the parents of these ill-behaved children and find out how many of them breastfed? Did you ever notice families with nicely-behaved, thoughtful and well-mannered children and ask if the mother breastfed whilst she was out and about? You've been making huge assumptions otherwise. I think you have an unfortunate and ill-educated attitude but there are lots of people that are bigotted and the older you get the easier it is to tolerate. Do you have any children? agirl

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 8:32:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Sounds like someone failed to bond with mom. Right on schedule. You are so predictable it's pathetic. Come on what's next? Calling me a misogynist? Go on, you know you want to. It's the very next thing in your playbook. Let's have it. And here I thought Awareness was above having a sock puppet... I'd be disappointed to find that so. agirl

Arpig -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 8:48:40 AM)
quote: Well, what the action/decision conveys is basically "ok, screw whatever you guys are doing over there, it's not important enough for me to even pretend to be interested in... I'm going to sit in this corner and do something that's only convenient to me, even though it might cause a disturbance" Actually no. What it conveys is "Oh-oh, the kid is hungry, I had better take care of that quickly and quietly with the minimum of fuss and bother so he won't bother or disturb anybody." Rather than disrespect, in this particular case it shows just the opposite, it shows respect. Care to try again?

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 9:09:38 AM)
~FR This is all about the "me" mentality. A mother, by breastfeeding, is doing what is natural AND what is in the best interests of the child. Breastfeeding has been shown to improve and prolong the immunity systems of the children. From an ecological point of view.... the natural method has no waste. Yet, instead of encouraging such behavior, people worry about how uncomfortable they will feel. "MY" comfort over the welfare of a child. Amazing.

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 9:11:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go quote: By deciding on your own to breastfeed while the Judge is in session you are disrespecting the Judge, the Court system, the Law, and all that it represents. How exactly is that? In just what way does it disrespect any of those things? Plenty of people have said so, yet none have explained just how it does. This is one of those unanswerable questions. I'm quite surprised in a way, as the few that hold these feelings appear so certain. I thought perhaps one of them might be able to elaborate (in a rational way), and if they'd done so, it would have been interesting and something to consider. I admit that it'd be hard for me to change my view, as it's well thought out and of little concern in the UK. But it would have been an exercise to have thought about it from the angle of inappropriate if there had been anything to discuss other than * it's just not appropriate*. I'm not really interested in the court aspect, as there are plenty of ways both sides could have made the whole situation a non-event. If a judge or bailiff is in charge, and has dealings with ALL walks of society, in court it'd better serve all if they were prepared for such innocuous things as a breastfeeding mother. agirl

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 9:26:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Well, what the action/decision conveys is basically "ok, screw whatever you guys are doing over there, it's not important enough for me to even pretend to be interested in... I'm going to sit in this corner and do something that's only convenient to me, even though it might cause a disturbance" Actually no. What it conveys is "Oh-oh, the kid is hungry, I had better take care of that quickly and quietly with the minimum of fuss and bother so he won't bother or disturb anybody." Rather than disrespect, in this particular case it shows just the opposite, it shows respect. Care to try again? I'm in agreement with Arpig here. You have attached what you THINK it conveys. In THAT court, with THAT judge, it had a bad outcome. The mother could well have looked like a selfish middle finger-thrower if she had been informed, and stood like a bolshy cow declaring her right to do whatever she wants. But that wasn't the case, according to reports from both sides. She was asked a facetious question which really only had one answer. That was silly of the judge to begin with. There are ways and ways of avoiding conflict and strife and one hopes our judges would be well versed and practised at it considering they deal with people in less than the best situations. agirl

urtoy -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 9:37:10 AM)
As someone who has spent time in the courtroom (both as attorney and as litigant) and a mother of four who chose to breastfeed, it's my opinion that children (and babies especially) do not belong in the courtroom. They're disruptive by nature. When I was nursing, if I was called upon to be where my child would be a nuisance (courtroom, theater, library, church, adults-only function) I would arrange for someone to care for my child while I was gone. Missing one feeding does not compromise the breastfeeding process or the child's welfare. And while, like many posters, I see nothing inherently objectionable about breastfeeding, the judge in question did (obviously) and he gets to call the shots in his courtroom.

tazzygirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 9:40:45 AM)
I was speaking to the attitude of society in general... not to that specific situation.

GreedyTop -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 9:51:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror It is a symptom of their entitlement, yes. Are you honestly trying to tell me that women who squat out kid after kid so they can get more welfare don't exist? Are you honestly trying to tell me that mom's who take their screaming spawn to movie theaters for R-rated movies don't exist? Are you honestly trying to tell me the kids I see throwing tantrums in restaurants with uncaring parents don't exist? Are you honestly trying to tell me the news stories featuring an irate mother, furious over her child being disciplined in school when it wasn't being done at home don't exist? Bullshit. It's all a symptom of the same problem. I'm afraid that just because there is lots of sloppy parenting going on all around the place doesn't mean that, on the SINGLE issue of breastfeeding when out with an infant, they go hand in hand. I most certainly do NOT think my children are the be all and end of of the universe. I was certainly entitled to take my children to all sorts of places but if they mis-behaved in the remotest they were removed. By the age of 3yrs I could take my children anywhere. I didn't breastfeed whilst out and about through any sense of entitlement, it was purely practical (and normal, as I've said before). This is how infants are fed. If I could find a nice quiet spot I would, as I preferred the peace and solitude. As I said before, if I could leave my infant at home while I did necessary tasks, that's exactly what I did. If that wasn't possible (which it wasn't, always) they came with me. Your rants are extremely one-tracked and one sided, and you seem to link ALL breastfeeding mothers into one baby-squatting, welfare-scrounging, sloppy-parenting group. It's not the case. This is one issue, that stands alone, and you don't seem to be able to seperate it. Did you survey the parents of these ill-behaved children and find out how many of them breastfed? Did you ever notice families with nicely-behaved, thoughtful and well-mannered children and ask if the mother breastfed whilst she was out and about? You've been making huge assumptions otherwise. I think you have an unfortunate and ill-educated attitude but there are lots of people that are bigotted and the older you get the easier it is to tolerate. Do you have any children? agirl I think I love you :)

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 10:01:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: urtoy As someone who has spent time in the courtroom (both as attorney and as litigant) and a mother of four who chose to breastfeed, it's my opinion that children (and babies especially) do not belong in the courtroom. They're disruptive by nature. When I was nursing, if I was called upon to be where my child would be a nuisance (courtroom, theater, library, church, adults-only function) I would arrange for someone to care for my child while I was gone. Missing one feeding does not compromise the breastfeeding process or the child's welfare. And while, like many posters, I see nothing inherently objectionable about breastfeeding, the judge in question did (obviously) and he gets to call the shots in his courtroom. Seriously, it has been said that leaving your infant at home is the best all round situation. Let's face it, home is geared up for them. It's also geared up for comfy breastfeeding. If your infant only accepts the nipple then you are left with no option. Not all babies are a nuisance, goodness me. I don't know of a single breastfeeding mother who didn't prefer being ensconsed in a comfortable chair, in a warm familiar place with a nice drink to sip. The second best situation is to at least be able to do it without distain, derision and disgust. agirl

SaMaitresse -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 10:13:25 AM)
I rarely post, but I feel I should speak up at this juncture. quote: Is anyone here still in college? I can tell you what my professors would have said had I dared even bring a child/baby into their classroom, let alone breastfed in the middle of a lecture. Is a courtroom not entitled to at least as much respect as a classroom? Perhaps its been a few years since you were there? There were several women who breastfed regularly during class during my rather long sojourn in university. I am currently a professor, though a junior one, and there are two who do so in my classes. It has never disrupted my lectures and I have no problem with it. My husband is also a professor, and he has at the moment a woman who also breastfeeds during his lectures and another who bottle feeds. He also has no issue with either. Rather than consider it a sign of disrespect, we both feel that by making attending our lectures a priority and adjusting their child care regimen to accommodate us, they are showing the greatest respect as I am sure it would be much simpler for them to stay at home or to put their child on formula and arrange a sitter than it was to bring the child with them. I too echo the request for anybody to explain how it is a sign of disrespect. It is disrespectful of those who would object. It is a woman's right, and duty, to care for her child and breastfeeding is the best method of doing so. There is no assault to the dignity of anybody in breastfeeding one's child anywhere. In the absence of any such disrespect or harm to dignity, one must assume that the issue truly does lie with one's personal comfort. Well comfortable or not, life goes on, and to ask that it be set aside or suspended, or that a person be denied their rights or must disrupt their lives to allow for your comfort is highly disrespectful of others.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 10:17:09 AM)
Where in her post did you see disdain, derision or disgust? This is someone who has spent a lot of time in the courtroom, and has also been a breastfeeding mother. Do you not think she has thought this through and come to a reasonable conclusion? As she said though, the judge is in charge of his/her courtroom and he made his decision.

GreedyTop -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 10:24:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Where in her post did you see disdain, derision or disgust? This is someone who has spent a lot of time in the courtroom, and has also been a breastfeeding mother. Do you not think she has thought this through and come to a reasonable conclusion? As she said though, the judge is in charge of his/her courtroom and he made his decision. the bailiff saying "are you BREAST FEEDING???" twice, and the note he left on the bench (before the judge even noticed anything) and how do you KNOW she has been spending enough time in court to know what to expect from that bailiff and judge? (serious question: I haven't seen anything yet that would indicate such a scenario)

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 10:50:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Where in her post did you see disdain, derision or disgust? This is someone who has spent a lot of time in the courtroom, and has also been a breastfeeding mother. Do you not think she has thought this through and come to a reasonable conclusion? As she said though, the judge is in charge of his/her courtroom and he made his decision. Just because I quoted her post, doesn't mean that every word of MY post will be to or about her. I think my post scans well enough. agirl

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 10:58:37 AM)
quote: The second best situation is to at least be able to do it without distain, derision and disgust. agirl to avoid editing.... That comment is a general one, clearly to do with those that HAVE shown distain, derision and disgust. If my posts have been read, it would be very evident that my stance has been fairly even-handed. agirl agirl

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 11:02:48 AM)
It's been about four years. But hold on, HM is a professor... Ok, he said one time a student had an emergency (an absolute emergency is how he put it) and brought her young child (not a baby) to class. But there have been no infants, and he would not have infants in his class, so breastfeeding would not be an issue.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 11:05:12 AM)
She had to have been there at least once before, because the judge had ordered her to take classes (which she failed to take when first ordered) so she was back this time to let them know she took them.

agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/19/2011 11:11:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SaMaitresse I too echo the request for anybody to explain how it is a sign of disrespect. It is disrespectful of those who would object. It is a woman's right, and duty, to care for her child and breastfeeding is the best method of doing so. There is no assault to the dignity of anybody in breastfeeding one's child anywhere. In the absence of any such disrespect or harm to dignity, one must assume that the issue truly does lie with one's personal comfort. Well comfortable or not, life goes on, and to ask that it be set aside or suspended, or that a person be denied their rights or must disrupt their lives to allow for your comfort is highly disrespectful of others. Your post was refreshing to read, SaMaitresse. I have said more than once that it's easier on both Mum and infant to be at home. This seems to be ignored and fall on deaf ears. Sometimes life , as you say, has to go on. It's just not possible to suspend ALL family life for many months just because you are the sole source of nutrition for an infant. It would have been wholly unfair on my husband to have expected him to have done everything to have avoided me leaving the bloody home for 11 months JUST because the odd person found this some affront. Thankfully it's not not an issue in the UK and I have become more and more thankful for this as this thread has gone on......lol agirl

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