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Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/14/2011 8:28:08 PM   
hlen5


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This was a really interesting subject. It got shut down because some people can't discern between lively debate and discussion vs partisan sniping.

Could we try this again?

Here's the dare....

Stick to the topic and make your points without pointing fingers, calling others names or using a political party as your only justification.

Go ahead, I double-dog dare you!!!
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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/14/2011 8:30:47 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		Whew, for a moment I was worried you were discussing me.

And, again, I agree with what he said. The CEO's/companies were lazy. They were making major bucks, not having to answer to too many people, and could move everything off shore if the desire struck them. In the process, our economy grew weaker... and it finally hit the skids.

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/14/2011 8:46:50 PM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		i stick with what i said in that one, one big problem is over-regulation.. especially if a business operates in several different states..

of course, it depends on what size company you are talking about.. the bigger the company, the easier it is to hire the best accountants, lawyers and lobbists... and find ways around some regs, etc.. or the big ones can go offshore, of course..

its not a cake walk.. it discourages investment, both local and foreign..

btw, ya'll do know that part of what Obama wants it an US-Asia free trade deal.. thats what he is working on.. maybe him telling Americans they have gone a little soft is his way of breaking it to you,.. meaning that the US has to do more to bring in foreign investment and that could include another free trade deal..

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 1:05:52 AM   
Masta808


Posts: 591
Joined: 1/6/2011
Status: offline 		No we are NOT lazy, we are fat, love to watch television, barely exercise, have high levels of childhood obesity, dont work in sweatshops, placed a work 40 hours a week thanks to unions pushing their socialist agenda for worker rights, while congress only work 150 days a year, CEO having lavish parties using company parties because they are meeting with other top executives, we have the weekends off, have less vacation than any other developed nation, and etc.

Nope not lazy at all.

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 1:54:44 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		I do think we've lost our edge. I think when you've been good for what seems like so long, it's easy to get complacent and figure you can ride that wave forever without having to do much. We are very convinced of our unending awesomeness, but we forgot what it took to make us that way in the first place. 

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 3:43:41 AM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, the regulatory agencies like the EPA & OSHA, and Unions, who would want to bring their business here?

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 4:27:25 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		And how much did many of the top 100 actually pay in taxes in recent years?

Big difference between having the highest corporate tax rate, and what mega corps actually pay in taxes. So this is a distraction.

Businessmen have become lazy. I see it almost every day. At least some of them pay me to come in and show them where they can step it up.

In a business environment if you are not moving forward, you are moving backwards. If you do not invest in the people of your company, you are ignoring it's greatest asset.


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, the regulatory agencies like the EPA & OSHA, and Unions, who would want to bring their business here?



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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 5:00:13 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, the regulatory agencies like the EPA & OSHA, and Unions, who would want to bring their business here?



Is it higher than those socialist Europeans who tax you to death ? Who would have thought it.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 5:28:57 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, the regulatory agencies like the EPA & OSHA, and Unions, who would want to bring their business here?


Highest huh?

OECD Corporate Tax Rates - Federal Plus Provincial/State, 2007 and 2008

#1 is Japan at 39.54

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/2009/01/29/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-oecd/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/feb/21/corporation-tax-rates-world



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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 6:01:24 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

i stick with what i said in that one, one big problem is over-regulation.. especially if a business operates in several different states..



Which specific regulations would you remove?

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 6:06:25 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Status: offline 		Damn, you've got a set, hlen! 

Firm

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 6:10:03 AM   
thompsonx


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< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/15/2011 6:14:03 AM >

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 6:11:31 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world,

This is intellectual dishonesty. You are a regular poster here and have been informed many times that while the tax rate is high virtually no corporation pays anything near even ten percent. and many pay nothing.


the regulatory agencies like the EPA

Do you think it is ok to dump toxic waste into the environment?

& OSHA,

Do you believe that stairways should not have hand rails or that punch presses should not have tamper-proof safety handles?

and Unions,

Do you feel that there should be a limit on how much money someone can be paid?

who would want to bring their business here?

Those who want to make money.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 7:06:31 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Personally, if I had a choice between being "business friendly" and environmental regulations, I would take the environmental regs every time.  China may be making money hand over fist, but the air in their cities is filthy and I imagine their water isn't much better.l

I don't think Americans are lazy, I think they are self indulgent, but then again, Obama never said Americans were lazy, and I don't know how his remarks could be construed that way.

Companies aren't lazy either.  The fact is, they have been doing what capitalist companies are supposed to do, which is maximize profit.  In many cases, that included opening operations overseas where labor and other costs were far less.  I think the government, in imposing regulations and then in enabling free trade, overestimated the patriotism and long term vision of those running major corporations.  I have wondered for many years who companies thought was going to buy their shit once there were no jobs left in America.  I guess we are going to find out, because that is basically what has come to pass.  American people also played their part by refusing to support local businesses if they could buy an item for $1.00 cheaper at Walmart. 

It wasn't laziness in short, that brought us down.  It was everyone's (meaning individuals and companies) desire to maximize their profit, regardless of what was going to happen long term.  It wasn't laziness, it was short sightedness. 


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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 7:14:37 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline 		I didn't read through that other thread too much, although the OP indicated it was in the context of Obama's speech to CEOs.

"Americans are lazy" is a common complaint I've heard for a long time. It's not just in the past couple of decades. In fact, a lot of the proponents for outsourcing have made similar statements about Americans being lazy, which is their justification for shutting down factories in the US and transferring them overseas. I find it interesting that their idea of "not lazy" is working in a sweat shop for 12 hours a day at starvation wages.

I don't know if the issue is laziness as much as short-sighted stupidity, but in any case, it goes back further than just the past couple of decades, as Obama suggested. I've heard some say that our decline started just after World War II, when we had a big victory party that never stopped. Everything was about "fun, fun, fun."

The people who worked and took responsibility were called "squares" and practically outcast from society. That's probably where a lot of it got started, with that kind of mentality. A lot of people had a goal of getting some cushy high-paying job while doing as little work as possible. The money was all that mattered, not the work.

The glorification of mobsterism and other criminality fed into the notion that it doesn't matter how you get money, just as long as you have it. Just like in movies such as Goodfellas or Casino, the notion was that people who worked for a living were "saps" and "suckers," with even the implication that someone who lives an honest life is "not a real man."

Likewise, any job deemed "menial" or low-paying is only for "losers," and that is also a strong part of our popular culture these days.

With these kinds of ideas floating around popular culture for as long as I can remember, it's not surprising that the implication is a societal peer pressure to be "lazy."









< Message edited by Zonie63 -- 11/15/2011 7:15:50 AM >

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 7:25:58 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world,

This is intellectual dishonesty. You are a regular poster here and have been informed many times that while the tax rate is high virtually no corporation pays anything near even ten percent. and many pay nothing.


well, according to the financial statements of Mens Warehouse (which is international and no small company), they pay an effective tax rate of about 33%... I doubt they are alone in paying that amount of tax...

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 8:08:43 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world,

This is intellectual dishonesty. You are a regular poster here and have been informed many times that while the tax rate is high virtually no corporation pays anything near even ten percent. and many pay nothing.


well, according to the financial statements of Mens Warehouse (which is international and no small company), they pay an effective tax rate of about 33%... I doubt they are alone in paying that amount of tax...


General electric (14 billion+), which could probably buy "mens warehouse"(.7 of a billion) with what they pay their janitors, paid zero.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/companies/ge_7000_tax_returns/

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 9:48:17 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Between the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world,

This is intellectual dishonesty. You are a regular poster here and have been informed many times that while the tax rate is high virtually no corporation pays anything near even ten percent. and many pay nothing.


well, according to the financial statements of Mens Warehouse (which is international and no small company), they pay an effective tax rate of about 33%... I doubt they are alone in paying that amount of tax...


General electric (14 billion+), which could probably buy "mens warehouse"(.7 of a billion) with what they pay their janitors, paid zero.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/companies/ge_7000_tax_returns/

so the fuck what? Imo the majority of businesses in the US pay the tax they are legally required to. You said "vitually no corporation pays anything near even 10%.. With one example i disproved that..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 10:16:02 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Damn, you've got a set, hlen! 

Firm



Ovaries, my man, big brass ones!!

(Seriously, thank you very much!!)

ETA: I think this is important, and a problem not acknowledged can not be fixed.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 11/15/2011 10:17:31 AM >

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RE: Are Americans Lazy? Part 2 - Dare - 11/15/2011 10:22:29 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Shame, I had such high hopes

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 20
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