RE: Is BDSM to popular (Full Version)

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OhBeMyMind -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/27/2006 6:48:35 PM)

First, I want to thank you for taking my comments in the tone and manner in which they were intended. 
Being a mom myself I can completely relate to what you are saying, more often than not my maternal instinct kicks in overdrive and I suddenly feel as though I need to save the world, but yes, there is only so much anyone can do.  Not always, but sometimes people have to make those mistakes and learn on their own, and it is then that taking responsibility is imperative, if for anything personal growth and maturity.  (I do realize this is somewhat off topic from the original OP, typical of me lately [8|] )
Again, thank you, you seem like quite a lady.



quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


Very very cool, I am glad that there are websites with information for people not of legal age, on this stuff. That is what I meant by us older farts doing something to help those that are younger and want to learn more in a safer manner than some of the older ones perhaps had. Sponsering something like that is definately a way of "mentoring" that does not take advantage.



Respectfully, do you mean older as in age, or older as in amount of time (for lack of a better term at the moment) in the lifestyle.
I guess either way it does not matter, because in my opinion, age is not a definition of wisdom, responsibility, or experience.
I agree with the idea of information being out there for people not of legal age, I mean if someone is hell bent on learning about any particular subject that is not age appropriate for them (according to society, their parents...whatever), they will seek to find it.  I personally feel the age of someone providing the information, or sponsoring it is quite irrelevant.


Smiling.....actually chuckling here at my own expense. You've got me on that one! You are correct I don't think that age in years is at all an indicator of wisdom and experience. In many ways I resemble the down side of that remark, being not really experienced as far as BDSM is concerned. I have seen quite a few that post in the forums that are young in years but seem to be very wise souls. One young lady in particular comes to mind and I am very sure her bullshit metre works VERY well and VERY quickly, I have alot of respect for her.
I also am very aware that the BDSM community is like the whole rest of the world, there are idiots and predators and victims all over the place. It's just the mom in me reacting to anything I ever see as being predatory. Its the same characteristic that leads me to always go to the shelter for pets rather than a pet store. I am always on a crusade to save someone or something, today just happened to be my "save the helpless BDSM newbies" day.
BUT, I am also the same one that after the helpless newbie has been given all the good guidance and all the wonderful information that if they still make really assine choices and get into trouble will say "well you stupid moron, what the hell did you expect?!?!" and tell them to get their head out of their ass, grow up, get over it and quit whining, and I would NOT keep bailing their ass out of the jams they got themselves into either. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves at some point.





fllmaster -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/27/2006 8:51:26 PM)

I too have noticed that some in some of the profiles of women who call themselve's "slave's" will be to the effect "I will not call you . . . . , or I will not do . . . ." So my question is, do they know the difference between a switch, a slave, and a submissive?

[sm=crop.gif]




BitaTruble -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/27/2006 8:53:18 PM)

There is no difference. Until they have a partner.. they are all just people.




SweetSarijane -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/27/2006 9:49:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

The advice I gave her in response to her rather non submissive demand : -

"Do not, for any reason, send chat requests or you will be instantly blocked"

Was :-

"A bit of advice : A sub who makes demands like this is a huge turn off for any Dominant."

The whole thing was no big deal but her response made me wonder if she was realy in the right place and if she understood how important respect and simple good manors are within the lifestyle

Her response :-

"i ,ll give you some advise,fuck off and mind your own."

She is, I am ashamed to say, a 25 year old English girl.



::shakes head:: First, you bring this to a public forum when it's a private issue between you and someone else so you can .. what.. validate your feelings? Then you cut and paste her private email to this same public forum in violating of TOS. What exactly is mannerly about your own actions here? You owe her an apology.. first for intruding into her lifestyle choice uninvited, then for proclaiming that you speak for 'any' dominant, then for insulting her, then for bringing HER private email to a public forum.

Shame on you.

Celeste




BRAVO!!!! You said what I was thinking Celeste.


*shakes head, rolls eyes* Who made him the god of bdsm, maker of rules, the one who decides who's a "real" sub/slave and who's not and what is appropriate for a sub or slave to say or how they should act? Puleeze..........there is no "one true way"




Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 12:32:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Too bad you can't give her name here.  I think there are a number of us who would like to congratulate her on her strength and her awareness of reality.


Yup, sounds like the girl knows what she wants and knows she has the right to ask for it. Good on her.




LadiesBladewing -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 12:53:04 AM)

I don't feel that BDSM is "too popular". As someone who lived through the "dark ages" of trying to find information before the availability that we have now, I believe that there is a much greater chance for the newcomer and the naive to find both information and assistance to protect themselves as they start out.

What I -have- noticed is that, as information has been provided, people have been much more willing to use only the parts that apply to -their- situation, and let the rest go. Back in "the day", if one didn't follow a given set of protocols, one found oneself with -no- access to the "scene", or, even more dangerous, only access to the -other- individuals who had been shunned, often for good reason, and so, whether it suited or not, everyone followed a pretty rigid set of protocols or we ended up in truly dangerous and potentially life-threatening situations with no-place to turn to find out what was right, wrong, or in-between. Some of us are fortunate to have lived through the experience.

With information comes exploration and expansion. Communication, individual to individual, becomes more important, because the definition of terms expands, and the diversity of the community expands.

Unlike 20 years ago, another individual who practices some aspects of BDSM may have no more in common with the form of lifestyle that I practice than my next-door neighbor, or someone picked at random from the telephone book. This isn't a -bad- thing, but -does- require that each of us take the responsibility to recognize that what -we- are calling something is not necessarily what the individual down the street is calling that same thing, and we must be both able, and willing, to define the way we are using the language, so as not to find ourselves frustrated, angry, hurt, and in a relationship that is -entirely- unsuited to the way that we intended to practice this so-called "lifestyle".

Being one of the individuals who values structure and who has very clear ideas of what I expect from those with whom I participate, it becomes -my- responsibility to associate with groups that share my philosophies. That does not give me the right to define -others- practices, unless those individuals have chosen to practice in concert with myself, nor does it give me the right to denegrate the way others practice. What it -does- do is give me an opportunity to provide useful information, the responsibility to screen out individuals who do not meet my criteria and, if possible, to assist those individuals in finding information more suitable to their way of practice, -and- the responsibility to educate others about the way that I practice, so that if they encounter someone else who follows the path that I do, they will know that there are places to send that person to obtain ACCURATE information about that style of practice.

The greater popularity of this lifestyle gives us so much freedom in interpretation, so that each person can have the aspects of this way of life that suit them best, but it lays a heavy burden of responsibility on those of us who practice, to provide quality information for newcomers and the uneducated. If we choose not to do this, we have nobody but ourselves to blame if people misinterpret or misrepresent aspects of the way that we live.

Da'Avatar ZWD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

I just sent some advice to a young girl, who called her self a slave, about an inappropriate statement that she had put in her profile. This statement was in effect an order, not a request, to Dominants reading this supposed submissives profile.
Her response makes me wonder if what we do is becoming to popular and attracting the wrong people, or if better communication is required to get over the fundamentals of what we do.

Bugei Master of slave o^^





www.klashaan.org




TxBlkMistress -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 1:00:41 AM)

my thoughts exactly Bita

hmmm...he writes one email with various topics which really don't have anything to do with the other. 

First he said she was a "young" girl, which sparked a lot of conversation about underage and teens in the lifestyle, the "woman" is 25 and although younger than you, is old enough to make decisions.  Then it was a debate about this lifestyle being too popular, then yet another about attracting the "wrong people", whatever that means.   Originally he said it was something in her profile,...now to find all this drama is because she sent a chat request?   Since when is sending a chat request a "demand"?  I get them all the time...I believe there is a "decline" button, or at least that is what I use...and be done with it. 

And actually there was no need to send an additional message and embarrass her....you don't know it might have taken all her courage to send that request only to have you blast her like that....maybe she responded that way out of embarrassement.  Now to post something private here?  That's really low...what a way to instill trust.

Just a thought




Bugei -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 3:24:22 AM)

You disappoint me and, I think, answer my question. Your view of what we do and what is correct form appears to be different. In Europe it is assumed that people are aware of what constitutes good manors and are polite to each other.

It has been said that we are two nations divided by a common language. I think this may also apply to the the lifestyle.




RavenMuse -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 3:48:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

You disappoint me and, I think, answer my question. Your view of what we do and what is correct form appears to be different. In Europe it is assumed that people are aware of what constitutes good manors and are polite to each other.

It has been said that we are two nations divided by a common language. I think this may also apply to the the lifestyle.


As a fellow Brit I think I can see part of the problem here.

Firstly, you seem to have forgotten that it isn't only D/s but also BDSM folks that use the site. Personaly a profile that reads too much like 'orders' is simply not one I would respond to as I would simply assume the young lady in question was seeking a BDSM Top rather than a D/s Master.

Secondly, Is it a remote part of Wales you are in. Whilst the comment about politeness holds true for quite a number, it is in rather shorter supply in the younger generation, yes even here in Europe.

Thirdly, Whilst you may have ment your 'advice' in a polite frame of mind, the young lady was obviously in a diffrent frame of mine and looks to have found your tone patronising given you are not HER Master and perhaps saw her responce as simply answering a percieved insult 'in kind'




feastie -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 4:27:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fllmaster

I too have noticed that some in some of the profiles of women who call themselve's "slave's" will be to the effect "I will not call you . . . . , or I will not do . . . ." So my question is, do they know the difference between a switch, a slave, and a submissive?

[sm=crop.gif]



Definitions based on real people are not tightly defined as some might wish.  There is absolutely no set of qualities in manner or speech which automatically separate one from another.  If you and others continue to believe that people should fit into the narrow categories you've defined for them, you are limiting only your own possibility of actually finding the one for you.




feastie -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 4:34:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bugei

You disappoint me and, I think, answer my question. Your view of what we do and what is correct form appears to be different. In Europe it is assumed that people are aware of what constitutes good manors and are polite to each other.

It has been said that we are two nations divided by a common language. I think this may also apply to the the lifestyle.


I think it's divided in your own mind.  Your way is not the only way and it was overbearing of you to make any suggestion to a stranger about her profile.  It was impolite of you.  Yes, your heart was in the right place, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it was just downright rude.  I am sure she has no problem whatsoever attracting her share of dominants, all without your help. Her response was a little overcharged (and should never have been posted here), but you got what you deserved.  You overstepped.




darkinshadows -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 4:39:31 AM)

I am from the UK.  And personally - I think what You did, although maybe well intentioned - was ultimately rude and making the assumption you 'knew' more than her.
(Re. my response to your OP - I am just offering an alternative view that she may have seen)
I do not see it as a miscommunication between nations - but between your choice of Ds/ BDSM or whatever it is you have adopted and others personal preferences.
 
Peace and Rapture




Bugei -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 4:56:53 AM)

Hi Raven

My frame of reference is very much BDSM, which is I am the first to admit is a very broad church, and under that banner I would include D/s

http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/encyclopervia/BDSM

Whilst I do live in a remote part of Wales, that has only been my home for the last five years. Prior to that I lived in several metropolitan areas through out the UK. I mix, on a regular basis with a large number of  members of the UK BDSM lifestyle community. In the context of this community I would be very disappointed to hear any submissive owned or not telling a Dominant to fuck off. Call me old fashioned.

I totally agree that she may have found my "advice" patronising and with hindsight it was, but the lack of servility in her response made me wonder the question I posed in the original post. The concept of a Dominant offering casual advice, is in fact the basis of patronisation and though it may not be non PC, it is not alien to the BDSM ethic.




RavenMuse -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 6:16:48 AM)

I think you miss my point regarding BDSM and D/s. Whilst this site is designed such that any 'bottom' only has the the option of labling themself as submissive, I have met many who are not in any way submissive and simply negotiate their BDSM play as equals without any submissive attitude what so ever.

There is also the point that whilst a girl maybe indeed a submissive, she is not YOUR submissive and need not treat you in any way other than an equal. Whilst it is indeed pleasenter when folks interact politely, you can essentialy neither expect it nor certainly demand it. Your advice being couched in tone as from a Dom to someone who is submissive to them is something many would find offensive.

The manner of her responce I would view as definatly lacking in politeness, but not totaly unexpected.




LaTigresse -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 6:35:11 AM)

Anyone can call themself Master,Mistress, Domme, Domina......all they have to do is say it or write it. The submission and respect is earned by words and more importantly actions. I have made friends with quite a few female sub/slaves and I hear all the time about jerks that instantly "demand" their submission because they are "Master IknoweverythingintheUniverse". Well, thats just a crock of crapola. While I am also a HUGE fan of manners, I agree with Raven/Celeste (I always do agree with them) and others, that girl is not YOUR submissive therefor she owed you nadda. As far as I can see, you own her an appology. Now THAT would be behaviour that would gain some respect and show.....manners.




ElizabethDVall -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 6:42:48 AM)

LaTigresse,  You didn't actualy see the emails, as Bugei's slave, and as a submissive, it would have been a pleasure to recieve an email such as that.
Her coming back with a rude responce was not of his making.
He owes her nothing, he never suggested he was her Master, nor any intention of it, he never gave her orders, and all he offered was a helpful piece of advice that ok, might have got her goat, but certainly had no cause for her to respond in the way she did.

Bugei brought up the topic on here as a general point to discussion, not naming her, and if people take this as bad so be it.   It seems that everyone has an opinion and everyone, although welcome can respond how they like.  Unfortunately, some, like your last comment are SO off the mark, and totally do not understand the point.

Owes her an apology?  Don't make me laugh!

o^^ / Elizabeth D Vall.




darkinshadows -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 6:49:36 AM)

I agree with LaTigresse et al.  And as you said,  ElizabetjDVall, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the facts that are set before them.  Including Bugei and yourself.  You bring something into general forum, do not expect all to agree.
 
My thought, however, is that your recent response to LaTigresse is no less rude than that of a slave telling someone to 'fuck off' when they are trying to offer 'polite advice'.
 
Peace and Rapture




ElizabethDVall -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 7:02:27 AM)

I totaly agree. 

With one difference.

I am not judging LaTigresse, as she was judging Bugei, by making comments which were not appropriate to the situation.
When I said he did not take the "I am your Master" line to this girl, which I assure you, many have tried with me, he didn't.
He never presumed to call or profess himself to be her Master, and his mail was polite.
Mine to Tigresse was not.

She seems to think he did assume he was her Master,  and has judge him from that.
Well he didn't.

I personally am not fond of these message boards, yes i believe they are useful, but people tend to get the wrong idea and wrong point, often going off at tangents and often creating a war where there isn't one.

The original post was a question, since then, it seems all people can do bar a few, mainly Doms, can flame.

Sad

o^^ / Elizabeth




LaTigresse -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 7:05:55 AM)

Well Elizabeth I am going to disappoint you probably because I refuse to argue with you. As an old man I knew used to say, "opinions are like assholes.....etc etc" and so forth.
You bring to the subject a distorted view simply by stating that you are Bugei's property, that tells me that you pretty much agree with him anyway. Thats a good thing.
Bug brought a subject into a public forum which then opens that subject up to all points of view. Anyone that cannot handle criticism should refrain from doing so. If all of the information was not presented for a clear view that is not the readers problem.
There are MANY times I have seen people that I truely respect and quite often agree with, disagree with me. I don't mind, just means we are all different. AND the best part is that, quite often, it causes me to see something from a different perspective and I learn and grow from it. That is why I am an avid fan of the forums here!
And lastly, I am glad I made you laugh as that is one of my life missions.




OhBeMyMind -> RE: Is BDSM to popular (5/28/2006 7:16:46 AM)

 
It may have been a pleasure for you to receive an email such as that, but then too you are not the know-all-be-all-end-all of what is submissive/slave/subservient either. 
Also, I have not seen anything to suggest that she asked for advice from anyone. 
Sounds to me like some people should, frankly, just mind their own business, unless someone specifically asks for advice, or ~smiles~ posts something on a public forum.
Anyway, she had every right to be 'rude' (since that is how you view it), maybe people should think twice before they interfere uninvited.
I agree...he owes her a huge apology.  And if he can't/won't do that, IMO, says even more about him, beyond that he is 'just rude' and evidently a busy body.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethDVall

LaTigresse,  You didn't actualy see the emails, as Bugei's slave, and as a submissive, it would have been a pleasure to recieve an email such as that.
Her coming back with a rude responce was not of his making.
He owes her nothing, he never suggested he was her Master, nor any intention of it, he never gave her orders, and all he offered was a helpful piece of advice that ok, might have got her goat, but certainly had no cause for her to respond in the way she did.

Bugei brought up the topic on here as a general point to discussion, not naming her, and if people take this as bad so be it.   It seems that everyone has an opinion and everyone, although welcome can respond how they like.  Unfortunately, some, like your last comment are SO off the mark, and totally do not understand the point.

Owes her an apology?  Don't make me laugh!

o^^ / Elizabeth D Vall.





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