RE: ideas for christian humiliation (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:16:54 AM)

Roch? Would you enjoy being a party to race play?



LaTigresse -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:19:11 AM)

I am not religious..........far from it. I also have no problem at all, when it comes up in discussion, expressing my point of view on the subject. But I won't ridicule others for their religious beliefs (at least not to their face......) and I won't intentionally make people who didn't bring the subject up, uncomfortable with my point of view.

It's kinda like dicks. Personally I think their are pretty ugly and funny looking. But I don't run around, getting in the face of every guy I see, telling him my point of view of dicks. Now if he puts it out there for all and sundry to see, making it a nearly unavoidable topic, I am probably going to voice my point of view on the topic and chances are, he won't like it. But he is the one that made it a topic of conversation.

As far as religious beliefs and mocking I guess I can see two sides to the coin. If I can walk around handing out bibles, trying to save people, getting in peoples faces and telling them, in essence they will go to hell if they don't start believing like I do, people also have equal right to mock and ridicule my beliefs. Both are equally offensive. It's just that one is considered 'decent' and acceptable and the other isn't.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:20:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Hell, I'm black.  But I don't get upset with those who enjoy race play.  I just choose not to participate in it myself.  But I would never chastise those who enjoy race play.


Would you be upset if someone tried to force you to be a party, or just an observer, to their race play?


I think you're missing the point.  This "humiliation play" would be almost invisible to outsiders.  How would the person KNOW that humiliation play was going on?  Who would be offended by it?  You guys are reacting strongly because you know what the OP intends.  But pretend like you don't know.  Now would any of the actions listed offend you?  Of course not, because you wouldn't know that anything odd was going on.  You'd just think you saw a woman wearing a "WWJD?" shirt.  Or you'd think you saw a woman wearing a cross necklace.  Or you'd think that another one of those religious people tried to get you saved.  In no way would you know that BDSM was being practiced.

Contrarily, race play tends to be a bit different.  Most offers that I get to participate in race play include dressing me up as a slave, putting me in shackles, and whipping me while calling me the N-word.  I think that would be much more visible and offensive in a vanilla environment.

I don't think any of the recommendations have been particularly offensive to unwitting observers.  Nobody recommended calling his slave a "stupid Christian pig" in public.  And clearly nobody recommended feeding her to the lions like the Romans did.



tazzygirl -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:21:36 AM)

Going to a Priest to ask for him to bless water, then telling him its to grow your own garden of eden is invisible to you?



lizi -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:21:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

You aren't the only one lizi.

With your instructor, while I understand she doesn't like it, it also isn't very professional looking. I'm sure that while you guys have to wear shorts, they can't be too short for the same reason.

The thing is that this really isn't about "humiliation." The undertone is making fun of those who are religious and that is what is wrong with it. Look at bitatrouble's "suggestions." They almost all involve bringing the public into the "humiliation" play. Walk into a church dressed like a school girl and go to confession? I mean really?

In order to get your own kink on (general your), you should never have to resort to disrespecting a group of people.

How about if she was Jewish and to humiliate her, he decided she should walk around with a yellow star of David sewn to all her clothes? Is THAT ok? Or maybe asking her to wear little Hitler happy faces? Would that be ok, or does that become offensive to people?

It all comes back to the stupidity of the statement, "your kink is not my kink, but you can do whatever you want, and it is ok." The reality is that there are things where there is a line in the sand, and decent people don't cross it.


Yes, this was what I was getting at, thank you for clarifying.

I don't feel good about disparaging or mocking something that is a core value to a large number of people. Even if they never know about it, I'd think less of myself and anyone I was intimately involved with. What others want to do is their choice, it's just never going to be something I can get behind because to me, at the center of that type of thing is an ugliness that I don't want to stoop to. Playing with it seems almost worse to me than outright, clear, measured, disrespect because you have strong ideas against it. Making fun of things like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I also agree with Ishtarr
quote:


I agree with this. Most of the suggestions made on this thread, so far, involve forcing others to participate in a person's kink.
Usually when such a topic is brought up everybody is up in arms and pissed off, and can't wait to chastise the OP for being disgusting and so on, for even considering to involve innocent bystanders in their kink.

Why is this topic suddenly so different?
Why is it suddenly okay to make innocent bystanders feel uncomfortable, or to force them in a situation they don't want to be in?
Why is okay to force others to partake in kinky role-play that involves religion, but it wouldn't be okay to do with other kinds of role-play?


Why is it ok to involve others in this? I can see that it's my own personal distaste for the private mockery that is on me, but why is it ok to do the more public things? Lets understand here that I have no taste for religion, it's something very far away from my own life. My uber religious sister drives me bananas, but I wouldn't want my sister's belief's mocked like that even if I don't share them. Is that different than when people here say they don't want kink out in the open where their children and elderly grandmother can be confronted with it? Having someone playing games and saying "Praise the Lord" or asking people if they're saved smacks of putting kink out into public because don't tell me that no one would know the difference between real belief or subtle mockery.

How about making fun of the flag or being disrespectful to it? How many people would find that ok to do? That's usually a pretty touchy subject for Americans.




wittynamehere -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:22:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lookingforyou123
She is against religion yet I have gotten her to wear a cross for me at all times. Can anyone think of any other types of things I can do to further the humiliation?

Send her to a church service.

EDIT: If you're reeeeaaaaallllllyyy cruel, tell her she's going to have to wait until marriage before having another orgasm.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:28:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

If I can walk around handing out bibles, trying to save people, getting in peoples faces and telling them, in essence they will go to hell if they don't start believing like I do, people also have equal right to mock and ridicule my beliefs. Both are equally offensive. It's just that one is considered 'decent' and acceptable and the other isn't.



EXACTLY, LaTigresse!  People are getting upset over someone doing something in public that we all see in public ANYWAY.  The only thing that is offending them is the fact that they know that she is not actually a Christian.  But nobody else will know that.  So she will blend in with all of the other religious people who publicly perform the acts that we suggested on a daily basis.

I find it amazing that THIS GROUP thinks we shouldn't expose the public to things that they see on a daily basis.  So in other words, if a non-reader PRETENDS to read a book on a park bench as a form of humiliation play (since they actually hate reading), it's not okay.  I hope those who are getting upset see how silly that argument sounds.  Yet, it's extremely analogous.  On the other hand, likening it to race play is a very poor analogy.



tazzygirl -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:28:45 AM)

They have those web sites where some chick does bondage in public. There are others that tie people up to lampposts and such, again, in public, then expose them to any viewer.

Hey, if thats someone's kink, thats fine. The person in control sets the scene, controls the access, ect. But, lets face it, there are morons who will do it regardless of who may be around and then want to whine that its their "kink". I wouldnt want to walk to the store and see a woman giving a man a blow job on the street corner. I wouldnt want to see a woman leading a man around on a leash while he crawls.

Enjoy your kink all you like! I encourage it! But, in setting up that kink, remember, your kink isnt my kink. Have some respect for those around you. Have a dinner party, invite kink friends over, and let the humiliation begin.



Fornica -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:28:56 AM)

Yeah. That. I don't really know how to articulate it...it just makes me feel like it crosses a moral line for me for some reason.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

It strikes me as mocking people who believe that cross, or rainbow, or star of David, to be a symbol of something precious to them for someone to wear it as an instrument of humiliation. This is why he's making her wear it, because of what it means to those who revere it. It just seems unnecessarily ugly to me. Maybe it's stupid, I just can't take something meaningful to someone else and treat it like dirt even if it doesn't mean the same to me. I know no one else knows about it, even those that it would hurt to have it treated poorly, still bugs me.





Rochsub2009 -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:30:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Going to a Priest to ask for him to bless water, then telling him its to grow your own garden of eden is invisible to you?


I didn't see that suggestion.  But if you eliminate the silly part about the Garden of Eden, then it actually is pretty invisible.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:30:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fornica

Yeah. That. I don't really know how to articulate it...it just makes me feel like it crosses a moral line for me for some reason.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

It strikes me as mocking people who believe that cross, or rainbow, or star of David, to be a symbol of something precious to them for someone to wear it as an instrument of humiliation. This is why he's making her wear it, because of what it means to those who revere it. It just seems unnecessarily ugly to me. Maybe it's stupid, I just can't take something meaningful to someone else and treat it like dirt even if it doesn't mean the same to me. I know no one else knows about it, even those that it would hurt to have it treated poorly, still bugs me.






I can't wrap myself around this for the same reason. I am not a religionist, but I wouldnt treat someone else's icons so casually.



LafayetteLady -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:33:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

For some reason around here, folks seem to think that making fun of a person's religious beliefs are just fine and dandy.


It's obvious that this is a sensitive topic for you.  And we understand why.  I even started my post with a caveat.

But on these boards, I try not to be judgmental of other people's kink.  I noted that religion was a touchy subject, but then I tried to help the OP out.  I think that's all anyone is trying to do.  We are not justifying his kink.  But he did ask a question, and I think he was sincere.

Hell, I'm black.  But I don't get upset with those who enjoy race play.  I just choose not to participate in it myself.  But I would never chastise those who enjoy race play.



Actually, it isn't simply my religious beliefs that make it a sensitive topic. If the OP talked about what they are doing in the privacy of their own home or play space, it wouldn't be something for me, but I really wouldn't care.

Did you look at your "suggestions?" Essentially you are making suggestions that are poking fun at people who are religious and suggesting that she PUBLICLY present herself as something she is not, involving other people and their sensitivities.

Again, if the OP wanted to play with Jewish humiliation, would you suggest she wear a yellow Star of David with "Juden" printed boldly on the front, or would that be in poor taste to do in public?



LaTigresse -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:36:28 AM)

I think it is because we (some of we anyway), regardless of individual views now, see religioun as something sacred. Even if we don't THINK we believe in it, there is that underlying, maybe even subconscious, fear that if we desecrate religioun we might go to hell. Like it's okay to not exactly believe but to purposely shit on the belief, is crossing that line. Just in case we are wrong in our disbelief.





tazzygirl -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:37:09 AM)

quote:

I hope those who are getting upset see how silly that argument sounds.  Yet, it's extremely analogous.  On the other hand, likening it to race play is a very poor analogy.


Yet it is an analogy you brought into the discussion. How it would make you feel uncomfortable, how it isnt your kink.

How uncomfortable would you think a Priest would feel once he learned he was being mocked?

I have no problem with humiliation play. I do have a problem with exposing it to unsuspecting people, regardless of who they are, in an attempt for the players to get off.

ETA

If the players can keep it between themselves, no harm, no foul. When part of your play involves exposing yourself to others who have not given consent, mocking others (which is an act of humiliating another) to get your kicks... then I do have a problem.



kalikshama -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:37:47 AM)

quote:

Why is okay to force others [the non-consenting pulbic] to partake in kinky role-play that involves religion, but it wouldn't be okay to do with other kinds of role-play?


Neither is ok as far as I'm concerned.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:38:31 AM)

BTW, for the record, I would NEVER do this type of play.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  But that's just me.

There are many other kinks that I don't agree with either.  But in this environment, I try not to be judgmental.  So I strive to provide objective feedback without interjecting my own personal judgment on what gets someone else off.

And while this is distasteful to me, I've seen far worse.  Moreover, it can be done in a way that is non-offensive and almost completely invisible.

But once again, it IS distasteful to me.



Fornica -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:43:39 AM)

Agreed.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Why is okay to force others [the non-consenting pulbic] to partake in kinky role-play that involves religion, but it wouldn't be okay to do with other kinds of role-play?


Neither is ok as far as I'm concerned.




LafayetteLady -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:43:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Hell, I'm black.  But I don't get upset with those who enjoy race play.  I just choose not to participate in it myself.  But I would never chastise those who enjoy race play.


Would you be upset if someone tried to force you to be a party, or just an observer, to their race play?


I think you're missing the point.  This "humiliation play" would be almost invisible to outsiders.  How would the person KNOW that humiliation play was going on?  Who would be offended by it?  You guys are reacting strongly because you know what the OP intends.  But pretend like you don't know.  Now would any of the actions listed offend you?  Of course not, because you wouldn't know that anything odd was going on.  You'd just think you saw a woman wearing a "WWJD?" shirt.  Or you'd think you saw a woman wearing a cross necklace.  Or you'd think that another one of those religious people tried to get you saved.  In no way would you know that BDSM was being practiced.

Contrarily, race play tends to be a bit different.  Most offers that I get to participate in race play include dressing me up as a slave, putting me in shackles, and whipping me while calling me the N-word.  I think that would be much more visible and offensive in a vanilla environment.

I don't think any of the recommendations have been particularly offensive to unwitting observers.  Nobody recommended calling his slave a "stupid Christian pig" in public.  And clearly nobody recommended feeding her to the lions like the Romans did.



Roch, you are suggesting all the ways she can IN PUBLIC mock Chrisitanity. You involve a priest in confession, and with the stupidity of saying you are going to grow your own Garden of Eden.

Personally, regardless of my religious beliefs, which you are so "understanding" of, I don't really take well to people walking up to me in public asking me if I have been "saved," any more than I enjoy Jehovah Witnesses coming to my door.

Now, please explain to me as I ask for the third time, if he was doing some humiliation play with someone Jewish would be acceptable. What about making her pretend to be disabled or mentally challenged in public? Is that ok?

Do what you want in private, but in public, at least pretend to respect the beliefs and feelings of others.



lizi -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:46:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009


EXACTLY, LaTigresse!  People are getting upset over someone doing something in public that we all see in public ANYWAY.  The only thing that is offending them is the fact that they know that she is not actually a Christian.  But nobody else will know that.  So she will blend in with all of the other religious people who publicly perform the acts that we suggested on a daily basis.

I find it amazing that THIS GROUP thinks we shouldn't expose the public to things that they see on a daily basis.  So in other words, if a non-reader PRETENDS to read a book on a park bench as a form of humiliation play (since they actually hate reading), it's not okay.  I hope those who are getting upset see how silly that argument sounds.  Yet, it's extremely analogous.  On the other hand, likening it to race play is a very poor analogy.



Ok, first of all, I'm not upset, I'm relating how I feel personally about not wanting to cross over into this territory and I'm discussing it. I don't really see anyone else getting upset either, just asking questions or bringing up points. I'm sure if things get to be a flame fest it'll be obvious, lol, and by then I'll be long gone because I detest drama.

If the part i underlined in the above quote were true, if the act of humiliation were invisible, then it wouldn't bother me to have others bring it out into the public, although I still wouldn't want to indulge in it personally. I don't see that all of the suggestions have been these invisible suggestions. If someone who doesn't have these beliefs is pretending to have them, and is being humiliated on top of it...don't tell me that no one would know. Sure, it would be small and it would be almost invisible, but I still can't countenance bringing what I'm getting off sexually on out into public where it might be invisible and it might not be. So if it stays invisible that is one thing and maybe no one would know, what if it doesn't? Is taking a chance on that maybe/maybe not invisibility ok?

As far as religious people shoving things in my face I have no problem telling them where to go. No, they shouldn't be allowed to impose upon my territory because it's 'accepted'. Geez I hate that, this is a funny subject for me to be chiming in on because I really don't like organized religion but I believe strongly in personal freedom. My sister knows and understands I don't feel as she does, so she keeps her views to herself, we respect each other. But saying because one group does it then it's ok for someone else to do it too...well, that's just childish.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: ideas for christian humiliation (11/21/2011 11:46:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Personally, if someone tried to force me to display belief in something I don't believe in, I'd be angry rather than humiliated.

This. ^^^ I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe, but I am certainly not going to wear something that says I believe something I absolutely do NOT. It would be like asking a Christian to wear my pentagram. Could you imagine their outrage!? Plus, using someone else's religious symbol to humiliate seems like it's belittling it. Not okay in my opinion.

NBMG



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