RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers?

RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 12:37:05 PM)
quote: Hardly, especially when you consider that a bachelors degree in any other field is worth at least $60,000 a year just in salary (not including benefits). Not for nursing. Depending on the area and field, new grads can expect to make from 35000 to 50000 a year.

Kaliko -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 12:37:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I was kind of trying to pull it off of the discussion of the purchase of supplies. I can say, with 100% surety, that teachers in my area are not expected or required to buy authorized supplies without reimbursement. I can say that until I'm blue in the face, though. It really doesn't mean that somebody isn't going to know somebody who didn't get reimbursed. So I was trying to say that, let's just take that out of the equation and say that teachers do have to purchase their own supplies. I still believe they're fairly compensated. I cant think of another job that requires someone to purchase equipment/supplies that will only be utilized once, can you? But why does this keep coming back to the purchase of supplies? I mentioned in the beginning, I can only speak for my geographical area. That was my way of saying I can only speak for what I know personally, and for all I know, in other parts of the country, things are done differently. So I'm trying to not completely shut the door on the possibility that some teachers do have to purchase their own supplies, even though where I am I can say with confidence that there is not that expectation. So....that's why I keep trying to say, let's take that out of the equation and keep it on an even keel for comparison's sake. Let's say that a teacher does have to purchase supplies of $500 a year. If that brings the average salary to $49,500, I still think that's a fair salary. That's all I'm saying.

Icarys -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 12:40:13 PM)
I think they are underpaid and over controlled to the point they have little say so in how they can teach. They work way more hours than the 40 hour workweek, on top of that. I was to understand also, that sure they have 30 kids for each class, but they teach how many actual kids, for that wage, per day? Last thing you'd want is a McDonald's waged flunky, offering up education from the dollar menu. If you really want good people then pay them a good wage. Seems like common sense to me. Unfortunately, common sense, isn't so common, I've found.

tazzygirl -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 12:44:06 PM)
Im sorry. I see sites indicating areas like NY paying only 300 dollars in reimbursements. In South Carolina... Enclosed is the information and procedures relating to the reimbursement for classroom teachers’ instructional supplies. School year 2010-2011 checks will total $275; this is unchanged from last year. Your school will receive these checks by August 9; please distribute them to teachers on their first day back, August 10. This reimbursement is for classroom teachers, whether full-time status or not, and regardless of their funding source. Special education teachers (self-contained, resource, and itinerant), child development and kindergarten teachers, JROTC instructors, librarians/media specialists, guidance counselors and other professional instructional staff should receive checks. Principals, assistant principals (unless they are part-time teachers), and classified employees are not eligible for supply reimbursement checks. The following page contains procedures for your own use. Please provide the copies of the second and third attachments, “$275 Reimbursement for Teacher Supplies” and “Teacher Supply Reimbursement Form”, to each eligible employee when checks are distributed. http://www.aiken.k12.sc.us/site/Personnel/bin/SUPPLYREIMBURSEMENTFY10.pdf quote: So....that's why I keep trying to say, let's take that out of the equation and keep it on an even keel for comparison's sake. Let's say that a teacher does have to purchase supplies of $500 a year. If that brings the average salary to $49,500, I still think that's a fair salary. That's all I'm saying. And what I am saying is that I know of no other profession that requires someone to buy items for a one time use out of the employees pockets. I could be wrong.

Kaliko -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 12:53:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im sorry. I see sites indicating areas like NY paying only 300 dollars in reimbursements. In South Carolina... Enclosed is the information and procedures relating to the reimbursement for classroom teachers’ instructional supplies. School year 2010-2011 checks will total $275; this is unchanged from last year. Your school will receive these checks by August 9; please distribute them to teachers on their first day back, August 10. This reimbursement is for classroom teachers, whether full-time status or not, and regardless of their funding source. Special education teachers (self-contained, resource, and itinerant), child development and kindergarten teachers, JROTC instructors, librarians/media specialists, guidance counselors and other professional instructional staff should receive checks. Principals, assistant principals (unless they are part-time teachers), and classified employees are not eligible for supply reimbursement checks. The following page contains procedures for your own use. Please provide the copies of the second and third attachments, “$275 Reimbursement for Teacher Supplies” and “Teacher Supply Reimbursement Form”, to each eligible employee when checks are distributed. http://www.aiken.k12.sc.us/site/Personnel/bin/SUPPLYREIMBURSEMENTFY10.pdf quote: So....that's why I keep trying to say, let's take that out of the equation and keep it on an even keel for comparison's sake. Let's say that a teacher does have to purchase supplies of $500 a year. If that brings the average salary to $49,500, I still think that's a fair salary. That's all I'm saying. And what I am saying is that I know of no other profession that requires someone to buy items for a one time use out of the employees pockets. I could be wrong. But if they're getting reimbursed, what is the issue? We do have reimbursements all the time for teachers. The problem, I thought, was when they don't get reimbursed.

tazzygirl -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:00:33 PM)
Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. They have a hard job dealing with kids that dont listen, parents that dont discipline and a school board that is crippling their effectiveness. They now have to be confidant, teacher, and police. They have to look for signs of learning disabilities, abuse, neglect and crimes. And as a society, we think they make too much?

Kaliko -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. They have a hard job dealing with kids that dont listen, parents that dont discipline and a school board that is crippling their effectiveness. They now have to be confidant, teacher, and police. They have to look for signs of learning disabilities, abuse, neglect and crimes. And as a society, we think they make too much? Well, I think the general consensus is that teachers don't make enough. I believe I'm in the minority. I don't see any problem with out-of-pocket expenses that are reimbursed. Why is that an issue? The outlay of expenses up front could be a problem, but a teacher would accept the job knowing this, I would hope.

tazzygirl -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:18:39 PM)
I was referring to those expenses not reimbursed. 275 dollars for a class of 30... not much spent on supplies for all those children.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:20:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. They have a hard job dealing with kids that dont listen, parents that dont discipline and a school board that is crippling their effectiveness. They now have to be confidant, teacher, and police. They have to look for signs of learning disabilities, abuse, neglect and crimes. And as a society, we think they make too much? Well, I think the general consensus is that teachers don't make enough. I believe I'm in the minority. I don't see any problem with out-of-pocket expenses that are reimbursed. Why is that an issue? The outlay of expenses up front could be a problem, but a teacher would accept the job knowing this, I would hope. I've never seen a teacher who had to buy supplies. Either parents donated them or they did a bake sale/car wash. The market is a wonderful thing. It (absent intereference) ensures that no one, even teachers, are "overpaid". Since the job is unionized, which is the same as artficially decreasing supply, it is ensured that they are overpaid compared to what the market would otherwise pay them. If someone wants to argue that the job is UNDERVALUED due to its importance that is a different discussion. I think the value of teachers is far greater than the market puts on the current supply of teachers. Want pay commensurate with the value of the job? Get teachers who can rise to that level.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:24:03 PM)
The thing is, you have kids who need paper and pencils. You need tissues for snotty noses. Field trips have to be paid for. Crackers and ginger ale for kids who feel bad. Hand sanitizer to try and keep the spread of germs down. Kids who come to school in cold weather with no coat. I could fill a page with things that are needed in class. If the parents do not provide those things, most teachers and other faculty will dig in their own pockets to get them. I have spent who knows how much in order to keep a kid from getting a cold cheese sandwich and a milk for lunch, because either their parents just will not send money, or they will not fill out the paperwork to get the child free lunches. Almost every teacher I know has spent their own money to get something for students. I know this year, the amount they received at the beginning of the year was $100.00 for classroom supplies. That does not go far at all. They stay late to try to help a child who is having troubles learning. The funds that used to be available to pay them for that extra time have disappeared in the past few years, but I do not know one teacher who has said, "Well, no more funds so I am leaving at 3:00". I sincerely believe that salaries for teachers are too low. I also realize that there are sorry ass teachers who should not be teaching. If there was a way to base salary on performance, that would be great, but, what constitutes good performance? Passing test scores? That is how they are judged. Thing is, some of the best teachers I know work at schools where, on paper, it would appear that they are failures. Seeing all they do on a day in, day out basis however, shows that they are truly dedicated to their children and do the best they can with the children they are charged to teach. Didn't mean to go on and on, can ya tell this is a topic close to my heart? [:)]

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:25:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy I've never seen a teacher who had to buy supplies. Either parents donated them or they did a bake sale/car wash. Go visit some schools in a lower socioeconomic area.

RakeAndCo -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:26:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. Oh the horror, teachers would have to learn how to read instructions on tax forms, keep records, and fill the tax forms out just like everyone else that has expenses non-reimbursed by the employer!

Kaliko -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I was referring to those expenses not reimbursed. 275 dollars for a class of 30... not much spent on supplies for all those children. Well, I don't work in that district so I can't say for sure, but I would bet that they are not purchasing every little thing needed for their classroom with that $275. Paper, pencils, textbooks, software programs, etc are in supply through the schools. Likely they are purchasing bulletin board decorations and other specific items that the teacher is partial to for his/her instructional method. I wouldn't assume that only $275 for the year is all they have to work with as far as supplies without knowing it is supplemented by the district's supply closets. But..even so....that's not really the point. Well, that's not my point, anyway. Whew. I'm spent. This was a nice enough distraction from the disgusting noises coming from my daughter's bedroom behind me (she's home sick today, which is why I'm home today) but I suppose I can't add anymore here.

tazzygirl -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:30:44 PM)
quote: Whew. I'm spent. This was a nice enough distraction from the disgusting noises coming from my daughter's bedroom behind me (she's home sick today, which is why I'm home today) but I suppose I can't add anymore here. It was a nice distraction. Thank you for keeping it extremely civil... not that I am saying you dont, but that its rare to have that happen in this section. I hope the wee one feels better soon!

Kaliko -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:33:05 PM)
Dammit, I thought I was done here. Okay, one more post. quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub They stay late to try to help a child who is having troubles learning. The funds that used to be available to pay them for that extra time have disappeared in the past few years, but I do not know one teacher who has said, "Well, no more funds so I am leaving at 3:00". I do. quote: If there was a way to base salary on performance, that would be great, but, what constitutes good performance? Passing test scores? That is how they are judged. I would also love to see performance pay, but the concern is exactly what you stated. Would teachers then be more concerned (more than they already are) about making sure that students pass the test rather than being sure they've learned the material? I'm not so sure that passing test scores should determine a teacher's merit. But, obviously, there needs to be some sort of objective measure of one teacher against another. It's a sticky one. Okay. NOW I'm done.

tazzygirl -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:40:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. Oh the horror, teachers would have to learn how to read instructions on tax forms, keep records, and fill the tax forms out just like everyone else that has expenses non-reimbursed by the employer! How many expenses do you have that are not reimbursed?

BanthaSamantha -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:48:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I was referring to those expenses not reimbursed. 275 dollars for a class of 30... not much spent on supplies for all those children. That's actually pretty easy. Unreimbursed teacher expenses, up to $500, are a special above-the-line deduction for federal income taxes (maybe for state taxes too). All you need to do to account for it is deduct $500 (assuming that's what they spent) from the average teacher's salary.

RakeAndCo -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 1:52:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. Oh the horror, teachers would have to learn how to read instructions on tax forms, keep records, and fill the tax forms out just like everyone else that has expenses non-reimbursed by the employer! How many expenses do you have that are not reimbursed? When I worked on W2, probably about 20k/year.

DomKen -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 2:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy I've never seen a teacher who had to buy supplies. Either parents donated them or they did a bake sale/car wash. Come to Chicago, I can introduce you to a dozen or so, who can introduce you to more I'm sure.

rulemylife -> RE: Are You Sick Of "Over Paid" Public School Teachers? (11/22/2011 2:08:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Out of pocket, even a dollar, for supplies a teacher requires to teach a classroom of students is far too much in my opinion. Oh the horror, teachers would have to learn how to read instructions on tax forms, keep records, and fill the tax forms out just like everyone else that has expenses non-reimbursed by the employer! And what if the standard deduction is more than what they would receive if they itemize? Then that money is not reimbursed.

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