RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked

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luckydawg -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 9:08:05 AM)
no one is pretending that, except you Hill. Watch the fucking video, the one at the bottom of the page. Or don't and wallow in ignorance. I Hear some "Cyber Chix" dig that.

tazzygirl -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 9:10:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg THe point of civil Disobedience is to intentionally get arrested. a mob Detaining Police officers to firce them to un arrest people is NOT CIVIL DISOBEDIANCE. And the Police had the duty to use the least amount of force necessarry to clear the path and go about thier bussiness. Which is what they did. They had a path... right over the protesters... people they were specifically told not to use force with. Gee.. guess thats why a few were put on leave... and perhaps that is why the state is now investigating. I dont take the word of anyone over a video. What is plainly seen is clear.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 9:12:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg actually Sanity is "taking the word" the actuall story of a participant, named, elli pearson, on camera telling the story. Not the word of a "chanting mob of leftists". It seems intentional on your part to have such poor comprehension. And Just so I am understanding you, you feel the mob had the right to detain the police officers and force them to un arrest people. That is what happened. The student says so, and the video at the bottom clearly shows it. That is not civil disobedience, that is serious crime. Which is apperantly supported by most of the left, at least in here. Interesting video. A lot of stuff is shown that is intentionally cut out of the propaganda and MSM videos. Every "sprayee" was individually warned that it was going to happen if they chose to remain, in thier attempt to interefere with the Officers Lawfull Actions. While the crowd chanted "let them go and well let you go". And you think people support this nonsense. It is noteworthy, that the protest against this was only important enough for 30 of the over 30,000 students to skip thanksgiving for. I bet the vast majority of Students will go to class on Monday, and most of the strike will be from non students. Photographic evidence in post 4 above kinda debunks that 'trapped and surrounded story' there is a nice path bewteen the 2 officers on the left of the line (One appears to be walking toward it) and the 7 or 8 officers standing unconcernedly on the other side. I do believe that if the 2 on the left were trapped, they would be doing something besides sitting around with their hands on their hips observing. Again. sanity is taking the word of one who was part of that group UC Davis Student Admits Protesters Surrounded Cops and Wouldn't Let Them Leave and the photographic evidence in the article seems to debunk the story. So a still photograph, taken AFTER the pepper spraying had begun, showing what APPEARS to be a path into an area that CANT BE SEEN, debunks the video and testimony? Ridiculous attempt at denial. If you think ANY police action would be taken at any Occupy demonstration without provocation youre insane. Its what they are living their lives for (ask Skippy), and the police arent that stupid when every news station and cell phone would catch it.

tolovetolaugh -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 9:22:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy So a still photograph, taken AFTER the pepper spraying had begun, showing what APPEARS to be a path into an area that CANT BE SEEN, debunks the video and testimony? Ridiculous attempt at denial. If you think ANY police action would be taken at any Occupy demonstration without provocation youre insane. Its what they are living their lives for (ask Skippy), and the police arent that stupid when every news station and cell phone would catch it. So about that lil ol lady that got sprayed in the face at OWS...

Hillwilliam -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 9:29:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg actually Sanity is "taking the word" the actuall story of a participant, named, elli pearson, on camera telling the story. Not the word of a "chanting mob of leftists". It seems intentional on your part to have such poor comprehension. And Just so I am understanding you, you feel the mob had the right to detain the police officers and force them to un arrest people. That is what happened. The student says so, and the video at the bottom clearly shows it. That is not civil disobedience, that is serious crime. Which is apperantly supported by most of the left, at least in here. Interesting video. A lot of stuff is shown that is intentionally cut out of the propaganda and MSM videos. Every "sprayee" was individually warned that it was going to happen if they chose to remain, in thier attempt to interefere with the Officers Lawfull Actions. While the crowd chanted "let them go and well let you go". And you think people support this nonsense. It is noteworthy, that the protest against this was only important enough for 30 of the over 30,000 students to skip thanksgiving for. I bet the vast majority of Students will go to class on Monday, and most of the strike will be from non students. Photographic evidence in post 4 above kinda debunks that 'trapped and surrounded story' there is a nice path bewteen the 2 officers on the left of the line (One appears to be walking toward it) and the 7 or 8 officers standing unconcernedly on the other side. I do believe that if the 2 on the left were trapped, they would be doing something besides sitting around with their hands on their hips observing. Again. sanity is taking the word of one who was part of that group UC Davis Student Admits Protesters Surrounded Cops and Wouldn't Let Them Leave and the photographic evidence in the article seems to debunk the story. and the police arent that stupid when every news station and cell phone would catch it. I'll address this first. Home videos of police doing errm 'embarassing things' have been really common for about 3 decades now. Why, then, do they keep doing it? I'll agree with you that it's stupidity. Face it. In the early days of home video, I could see it happening because it was a new thing. Now, a lot of officers have never known an instant of their life that video cameras werent cheap and ubiquitous. (unlike you and I who remember when they were huge clunky assed things that cost a fortune). If you are at an event that is bound to be well covered and do something not totally by the book, yes. I agree it's stupid. The tactical situation in the photo misrepresents the story. If the officer was in any kind of straits, why are the officers on the left acting unconcerned and the one a few feet behind him walking toward a gap in the line of students? Any time an officer is threatened and in trouble, the others are supposed to work their way to him and assist. They aren't doing that here.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 9:36:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg no one is pretending that, except you Hill. Watch the fucking video, the one at the bottom of the page. Or don't and wallow in ignorance. I Hear some "Cyber Chix" dig that. I watched the video at the bottom and the officer is talking to people calmly and they are talking to him calmly while people chant in the background. A minute and a half of people talking to each other. Your point is? Thanks for telling me about that vid at the bottom, dawg. If you watch it, at :59 and at 1:12, you can see an easy path down the sidewalk all the way to the parking lot from the opposite side of the line of seated people as the officer speaking to them. The officer Speaking to the protestors on the right side of the line in the video is the same guy that is spraying them from the left side of the line in the still pictures. How did he get from one side of the line of sitting protestors to the other? I'd guess he walked. If he could walk around the line to the other side to spray them, I bet the others could as well. Ergo, they weren't trapped. Again, dawg, thanks for telling me about the fucking video at the bottom of the page.[:D]

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 10:27:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I'll address this first. Home videos of police doing errm 'embarassing things' have been really common for about 3 decades now. Why, then, do they keep doing it? I'll agree with you that it's stupidity. Apples and oranges. Incidents like Rodney King happen in the heat of the moment and without expectation of being videoed. An organized demonstration with a planned response, with news orgs there and the world watching is totally different.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 10:29:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg no one is pretending that, except you Hill. Watch the fucking video, the one at the bottom of the page. Or don't and wallow in ignorance. I Hear some "Cyber Chix" dig that. I watched the video at the bottom and the officer is talking to people calmly and they are talking to him calmly while people chant in the background. A minute and a half of people talking to each other. Your point is? Thanks for telling me about that vid at the bottom, dawg. If you watch it, at :59 and at 1:12, you can see an easy path down the sidewalk all the way to the parking lot from the opposite side of the line of seated people as the officer speaking to them. The officer Speaking to the protestors on the right side of the line in the video is the same guy that is spraying them from the left side of the line in the still pictures. How did he get from one side of the line of sitting protestors to the other? I'd guess he walked. If he could walk around the line to the other side to spray them, I bet the others could as well. Ergo, they weren't trapped. Again, dawg, thanks for telling me about the fucking video at the bottom of the page.[:D] Yeah, youre right. Theres no way in hell that a crowd intent on keeping the police surrounded would actually move into any gaps they headed for to prevent it. Good job.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 10:31:58 AM)
Timeline wilbur. Supposedly they were trapped. The officer talked to them and THEN walked over to the other side. How do I know that? The video was taken of people who hadn't been peppersprayed yet. If his buddies wanted out, they'd have followed him. If you can freely walk to the other side of a line as he did, you are not trapped by that line. Bottom line. They didn't want out, they just wanted to 'water the hippies'.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 10:35:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I'll address this first. Home videos of police doing errm 'embarassing things' have been really common for about 3 decades now. Why, then, do they keep doing it? I'll agree with you that it's stupidity. Apples and oranges. Incidents like Rodney King happen in the heat of the moment and without expectation of being videoed. An organized demonstration with a planned response, with news orgs there and the world watching is totally different. King also happened when video was fairly new and I'd guess it caught them by surprise to be on the evening news. These days, it is (or should be) ingrained into your very being that at any given time, you might be on camera. this is especially true for those under 35 or so. Thus my assertion that some people (police and civilian alike) are just fucking stupid. If you don't believe that, just watch an episode of "Worlds Dumbest Caught on Tape".

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 10:48:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Timeline wilbur. Supposedly they were trapped. The officer talked to them and THEN walked over to the other side. How do I know that? The video was taken of people who hadn't been peppersprayed yet. If his buddies wanted out, they'd have followed him. If you can freely walk to the other side of a line as he did, you are not trapped by that line. Bottom line. They didn't want out, they just wanted to 'water the hippies'. While the water the hippies sentiment is one I would share, that simply isnt what the video and reporting say. And the OWS's version is consistent with what the police have said since the beginning.

BanthaSamantha -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 10:53:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha I know I must sound like a broken record by now, but I strongly urge people to take great care when looking at quotations, especially compiled quotations from a third party. It is very easy to take them out of context. People of all political affiliations have been guilty of misconstruing a quotation to further their own goals. Still others fall victim to these misconstructions and take them at face value.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 11:13:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Timeline wilbur. Supposedly they were trapped. The officer talked to them and THEN walked over to the other side. How do I know that? The video was taken of people who hadn't been peppersprayed yet. If his buddies wanted out, they'd have followed him. If you can freely walk to the other side of a line as he did, you are not trapped by that line. Bottom line. They didn't want out, they just wanted to 'water the hippies'. While the water the hippies sentiment is one I would share, that simply isnt what the video and reporting say. And the OWS's version is consistent with what the police have said since the beginning. Meh, I just look at the visual evidence from several sources and make up my own mind. Video and still photo evidence doesn't support the story that they were trapped. It's really hard to wrap my mind around someone knowing damn well they were on camera and doing something so stupid as to 'water the hippies' but "when the testosterone flows, guys do fucking stupid things". I don't think anyone on the liberal or conservative side or anywhere in between will disagree with that last statement.

SuzeQ -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 12:08:22 PM)
quote: But we do have you down as supporting mobs stopping police from doing thier lawfull duty. I was under the impression that they were campus police not real police, and that they had been instructed by the University President not to arrest anybody. To me it looks like they were going a little beyond their lawful duty.

SuzeQ -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 12:23:41 PM)
quote: If you think ANY police action would be taken at any Occupy demonstration without provocation youre insane. Then I guess I'm insane, because I have seen plenty of evidence of police action, and none of provocation warranting the level of violence employed by the police. And why is it that when the common people take a stand against corruption and refuse to stand aside in the face of threats of force in Tunis, Egypt, Syria, Myanmar, or Tienanmen Square they are courageous heroes, but if they dare do it in America they are filth and scum? Could you please explain that one to me? And while you're explaining things, maybe you can tell me why the President of the Untied States will not grant to U.S. citizens the same rights he insists the citizens of Egypt have? quote: I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters. The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere. ~ Barrack Obama (28/01/2011) Everywhere except in the United States it seems.

Sanity -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 12:33:53 PM)
If they are just rent-a-cops doesn't that make the rioteres screams of widespread police brutality based on this one incident seem a little bit ridiculous?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 12:35:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeQ quote: But we do have you down as supporting mobs stopping police from doing thier lawfull duty. I was under the impression that they were campus police not real police, and that they had been instructed by the University President not to arrest anybody. To me it looks like they were going a little beyond their lawful duty. Suze. Most campus police departments are dual. For instance, when I was at U miami. the UN campus cops were UM campus security but they were also sworn Coral Gables police officers. This is fairly prevalent all around the country today. Kinda confusing but, for instance, At U Tennessee, the 'campus police' are also sworn Knoxville PD. I hope that helps. I hope that helps

SuzeQ -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 12:43:25 PM)
Thanks Hill, that's not the case up here, at least not on our campuses. The campus police here can't even arrest you, they can only detain you till the real police arrive, so I made a "foreigners" error and assumed it was the same there. As others have observed, you guys are weird. [:D]

SuzeQ -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 12:45:25 PM)
quote: If they are just rent-a-cops Nobody said a thing about "rent-a-cops", try to at least pretend your screen name isn't an complete misnomer.

Sanity -> RE: Video - Pepper Spray Incident Debunked (11/25/2011 1:48:45 PM)
I wrote "if" Try to pretend youre something other than blonde quote: ORIGINAL: SuzeQ quote: If they are just rent-a-cops Nobody said a thing about "rent-a-cops", try to at least pretend your screen name isn't an complete misnomer.

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