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7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 1:46:47 AM   
tweakabelle


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A week or two ago, the UN declared the the 7 billionth human had arrived on the planet. That's 7,000,000,000+ of us humans on the globe. It is predicted that this figure will rise another billion (to 8 billion) in c12 years, and keep rising. A century or so ago there was little more than a billion of us.

How will this explosion of numbers affect the way we live? Will there be enough resources to feed, house educate employ and keep healthy 7 or 8 billion (or even more) of us? Will food security become a major issue? Or even a cause for war? How will we handle declining levels of energy, raw materials and other resources? Will we be forced to impose limits on individual reproductive rights? How will this affect the natural world? Or the quality of life we currently enjoy? These are just a few of the concerns raised .. there are many many more questions ... most without any clear answers at this point in time.

I'm interested in hearing how posters regard the issues thrown up by this unprecedented situation. What effects will this exponential growth have? How will humans handle it? How will it affect our individual lives and lifestyles? Please peek into your crystal balls and share your thoughts, concerns and views on this issue.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/26/2011 1:48:28 AM >


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 2:19:02 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Will we be forced to impose limits on individual reproductive rights?

We ought to.

I advocate:
1. One child per fertile woman to be born in the ages 23-26, preferably.
2. Tax decentives for a woman who has her one child before the age of 23.
3. An extra five per cent of children (second or third or fourth or fifth child) alotted for various reasons, like outstanding efforts, the winning of various contests (in art, sciences, literature, beauty) and free lotteries.

To be compensated for by excellent health care.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 2:37:17 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
A week or two ago, the UN declared the the 7 billionth human had arrived on the planet. That's 7,000,000,000+ of us humans on the globe. It is predicted that this figure will rise another billion (to 8 billion) in c12 years, and keep rising. A century or so ago there was little more than a billion of us.
How will this explosion of numbers affect the way we live? Will there be enough resources to feed, house educate employ and keep healthy 7 or 8 billion (or even more) of us? Will food security become a major issue? Or even a cause for war? How will we handle declining levels of energy, raw materials and other resources? Will we be forced to impose limits on individual reproductive rights? How will this affect the natural world? Or the quality of life we currently enjoy? These are just a few of the concerns raised .. there are many many more questions ... most without any clear answers at this point in time.
I'm interested in hearing how posters regard the issues thrown up by this unprecedented situation. What effects will this exponential growth have? How will humans handle it? How will it affect our individual lives and lifestyles? Please peek into your crystal balls and share your thoughts, concerns and views on this issue.


Please see this http://seniorjournal.com/images/Symbols/Senior%20Stats/World_Population_Growth_Rates.png (if you can tell me how to show an image directly, thanks!)

Ok. Some considerations:
  • Population growth has been exponential. Correct. So has been technology and industrial advance. With the production capacity of 1900, we would be all dead. The run of population vs. resources is not a run of  an exponential against a constant - it is the run between an exponential and another.
  • Population growth is decelerating. The pass between 5 and 6 billion needed 12 years - if you put it in a linear way (which is wrong, but go with me on that) we have 6 / 5 = 20% increase in 12 years, a 1.67% per year. The pass between 6 and 7 billion needed also 12 years, but that means 7 / 6 = 17%, a 1.42% per year (making the same mistake, to compensate both). So - the percent of population increase, is decreasing. The population growth exists, but it is stopping.
This matches the UN estimations, even the more pessimistic: while the education increases, the family planning grows, the women get more rights on their lives... the population growth decreases more and more, even to the point where some countries are actually loosing population (high culture + pessimistic perception of the own economical situation ==> less children).
At the same time, the technology advance does not depend on the starving or the miserable. It depends on the amount of cultivated and rich. That is: the exponential growth of technology will continue long after the population has stopped growing exponentially, because the amount of rich and cultivated will still increase for a while.

That means, that we are confronting a crisis, but the crisis will be over, and after it, what we will have is:
  • Constant population (more or less).
  • Exponential technology growth, including resources, until all the mental capacity of the population is being used in the same level or more as in the current "developed countries".
And this is fantastic, a brilliant future... if we ever reach it. To reach it, we have to survive the population shock and the current dangerous situation in many aspects. For example, we are in a dangerous "window" o weapon production - only in the last 50 years, mankind has had the technological means to completely destroy itself on this planet. In some decades or centuries, mankind will expand to other planets and stars, making any attempt to "kill 'em all" impossible. Until then, we have the means to destroy it all. Our duty is to prevent it, while we accelerate the moment when this window closes for good.

There are other dangers, as the total climate catastrophe. We have to deal with these problems and resolve them, with good politics, citizen behaviour and technology.

Now to your questions.
  • Food security during the crisis: Even if technology will continue helping us to cover more and more calories production with less and less resources, it may be necessary for some time to take other measures. A high tax on flesh, for example, can make wonders (flesh is very inefficient, to produce a calorie of flesh you waste 8+ calories of cereals, in the case of cows at least 30). The financial speculation on food futures could be forbidden or regulated better. The political situation in Africa must continue its improvement, as any important war will immediately produce famine there. China and other rising countries could be forced to reeducate their population regarding food consume (instead of letting them imitate unhealthy models from the West).
  • There will be no declining levels of energy. In the contrary, the technology is increasing the production of energy at a very high ratio. Our problem is that a part of this energy is one we do not want to use, for ecological reasons. This is a challenge, but we are doing a good job there, both the states and the private economy.
  • There will be no predictable problems on raw materials. The resources of the Earth are still there, and many new resources can be still exploited. Substitutes can be found for scarce materials, as it has been done many times before. This is an old story. In the XIX century we depended on horses and whale oil. Horses were impossible for big cities and whales were almost extinguished - we survived. The private market, capitalism, invention, are wonderful weapons against any resource problem. Of course in many aspects the best idea will be to recycle, but we are learning this as well.
  • The natural world will be heavily affected by the overpopulation. Here I cannot be optimistic, we will still extinguish many thousands species more, including many ones with valuable resources which will never be discovered at all. We will loose many chances, and the situation will be quite worse before it starts to improve. Mankind is already one of the biggest ecologic catastrophes of this planet, and it will be the biggest. I can only hope that at the end, it will be for good, as without mankind (or other intelligent species) the whole planet with all its ecology is doomed.
  • No, no reproduction rights limits are necessary, actually China is starting to withdraw his because it is growing too slowly for their economy. Culture and richness will be much for effective as any possible limitation, and they may be TOO effective, so that we end up supporting the birth of children all over the world, as many developed countries already do.
  • The current level of life won't decrease during this crisis, but it will change. We will have to get used to live with less energy consumption, less flesh consumption, less water consumption. But technology will helps us to do it in an enjoyable way, and bring us soon more advantages as disadvantages. Remember: the population exponential curve is already gone, population is growing linear now, and soon it will start to grow even slower. While technology advances exponentially for a while. So that will be ok.
So, here it is. Best regards.

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 11/26/2011 2:51:43 AM >


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 6:01:33 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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Trying to add the diagram - to no avail 

< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 11/26/2011 6:04:44 AM >


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If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 9:32:54 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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Finally!


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 10:10:36 AM   
popeye1250


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Well, the U.S. feeds a whole bunch of people now. (thanks to the taxpayers)
So, that means no more wars. If a country becomes hostile to us we simply turn into, "The Food Nazi."
We won't be fighting wars for years and years, about six months should do it and not a shot fired.
The U.S. is too crowded now! Can you just imagine 600 million people here? We'd have to double everything!
Instead of eight lane highways we'd need 16 lane highways!
We'd have much less food available for export.
We'd be using double the oil and gas that we use now which means more pollution.
We'd have to double the number of power plants we now have!
And can you imagine the airports we'd need? You think O'Hare and Atlanta airports are big now? And look at the land mass those things would require!
Hundreds of thousands of square miles nationwide!
And what would California look like with double it's population! It would become unlivable.
Imho we need to stabilize or even decrease our current population. Of course "big business" wouldn't like that as they want "more consumers".
(We're not "people" to them, we're "consumers.")
We'd need to deport the illegal aliens that are,....."already here".
And can you imagine food prices? There'd be no more fat people then. The whole population would be thin and trim.


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 10:12:03 AM   
tazzygirl


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Funny.. people using public transportation would take care of half those problems

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 10:19:03 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Funny.. people using public transportation would take care of half those problems


Oh? You mean like AmTrack?
Sure, you could take the bus to the supermarket and back, while your ice cream melted waiting for the bus.
Nothing like taking the whole afternoon to go food shopping as the bus had to stop at every single street going to and returning from the market.
And don't even "forget" anything!
Of course you could eat your ice cream soup on the way home.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/26/2011 10:20:20 AM >


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 10:27:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Oh? You mean like AmTrack?
Sure, you could take the bus to the supermarket and back, while your ice cream melted waiting for the bus.
Nothing like taking the whole afternoon to go food shopping as the bus had to stop at every single street going to and returning from the market.
And don't even "forget" anything!
Of course you could eat your ice cream soup on the way home.


Cost savings of 9000 a year.

And for that ice cream...

http://www.crateandbarrel.com/kitchen-and-food/food-containers-storage/insulated-grocery-bag/s670793

We have yet to lose a single container, or had dairy products even close to warm by the time we got home.

There are solutions, pops.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 10:34:27 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Funny.. people using public transportation would take care of half those problems

Oh? You mean like AmTrack?
Sure, you could take the bus to the supermarket and back, while your ice cream melted waiting for the bus.
Nothing like taking the whole afternoon to go food shopping as the bus had to stop at every single street going to and returning from the market.
And don't even "forget" anything!
Of course you could eat your ice cream soup on the way home.
I Munich I make my purchases if ice cream in any of the numerous shops and supermarket 5 from my home. I count four right now.
But if I want, I take the metro, go to the center of the city, buy that tasty American Haägen-Dasz in the center of the city, take the metro back and put it in my fridge. It is absolutely ok, does not melt on the way. And I do not even take an isolating bag, even if I have some.
Just saying.


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 11:40:30 AM   
popeye1250


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Try that in West Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana Wyoming etc.

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 12:17:41 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

So, that means no more wars. If a country becomes hostile to us we simply turn into, "The Food Nazi."
We won't be fighting wars for years and years, about six months should do it and not a shot fired.


Better nominate Herman Cain or Michel Bachmann if you want that fantasy. Or are you planning long term for the complete disappearance of conscience in the US?



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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 12:23:43 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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None of this matters... we're all TOAST as of December 21, 2012 anyway --> TICK... TICK... TICK...





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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 12:24:39 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

But if I want, I take the metro, go to the center of the city, buy that tasty American Haägen-Dasz in the center of the city, take the metro back and put it in my fridge. It is absolutely ok, does not melt on the way. And I do not even take an isolating bag, even if I have some.
Just saying.


So the trains run frequently and don't take long. That's nice. If I decided to use any form of public transit that involved anything more extended that the Boston Subway system (like say the commuter rail out here) with any ice cream  I should expect a slurry. They longer ruins are two hours apart... and THAT'S on weekdays.
   Weekends you would have a warm dairy dish... something on the order of maple walnut consume'


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 12:25:44 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

None of this matters... we're all TOAST as of December 21, 2012 anyway --> TICK... TICK... TICK...


GOT FOIL?


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 12:36:10 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

None of this matters... we're all TOAST as of December 21, 2012 anyway --> TICK... TICK... TICK...


GOT FOIL?



Yes, actually... it's on YOUR head.    (points to the emoticons in my above post)





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 11/26/2011 12:37:05 PM >


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 1:30:26 PM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Try that in West Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana Wyoming etc.
Well then, you need better public transportation systems and everything will be ok .
Vote better politicians.


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If I don't answer you, maybe I "hid" you: PM me if you want.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, pause and reflect.” (Mark Twain)

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 1:44:33 PM   
tazzygirl


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The more public transport is used, the greater the need, the more frequent the runs.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 1:47:39 PM   
Moonhead


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Have you told the swine who run the London underground that?



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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/26/2011 1:50:09 PM   
tazzygirl


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Pft,.... one country at a time, Moon. I cant run the whole planet.. gesh! Though I would prolly do better than most are doing right now.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 20
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