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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 4:38:44 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		thank you, tweak, for clearing that point up.

quote:

Will this have the impact my student asserts? Will we grow/drift towards increasingly diverse (anarchic even) gender and sexual roles? Do posters see any merit in this argument? How will sexual behaviour (and gendered behaviours, the two are difficult to separate totally) evolve in a world where too many people is a pressing issue? I'd love to hear your thoughts.


Some societies are already there... some are so back in the woods they need sunlight piped in. Deeply religious countries, the US included, will be the last to fall by the way side... but the US will fall into line before the Middle East.

Even now women are asked when are they going to have a baby as soon as they get married. Its that constant pressure to reproduce. I had one child. Didnt want another. And the comments are always... Why would you want him to be alone in teh world once you are gone? Alone???? There are now 7 billion people!

I think what we will see first is an easing of that pressure by society. An increase in activity in the science community into high gear to develop a better birth control method.

I believe it will take generations to pass before we see homosexuality and heterosexuality equalized in desirability. Europeans seem to be closer at this level than most. The US has a way to go. The Middle East... thats gonna be a long while coming.

I feel like Im somehow missing a few nuances here.



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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:07:02 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		my solution is a retrovirus Genetic modification scheme, that would make all people into half size midgets.

requiring half as much food,
all roads could handle twice as many cars,
half floors could be built in every building doubling indoor space,
ect.

its an endless list of benefits.

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:11:28 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Nice idea, but midgets still eat just as much us tall bastards, sport: most of them have a fast burning metabolism, dig?

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:11:39 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

my solution is a retrovirus Genetic modification scheme, that would make all people into half size midgets.

requiring half as much food,
all roads could handle twice as many cars,
half floors could be built in every building doubling indoor space,
ect.

its an endless list of benefits.


It was tried, but it didnt quite work. It spawned a generation of liberals with half a brain.

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:13:41 PM   
Moonhead


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:34:29 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Nice idea, but midgets still eat just as much us tall bastards, sport: most of them have a fast burning metabolism, dig?



That doesn't seem to be the case from what I can find on the web.

Dwarves have a bunch of metabolic type issues.

Midgets (or the less offensive little people) are just porpotionally smaller, and use less calories. Though of course they eat however much they feel like and some are fat adns oem are skinny, just like average sided folks.

But if you are correct, It could simply be engineered into the modification.


Along with turning us green with chlorophyl, so we can get 1/2 of our energy from sunlight

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:37:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Nice idea, but midgets still eat just as much us tall bastards, sport: most of them have a fast burning metabolism, dig?



That doesn't seem to be the case from what I can find on the web.

Dwarves have a bunch of metabolic type issues.

Midgets (or the less offensive little people) are just porpotionally smaller, and use less calories. Though of course they eat however much they feel like and some are fat adns oem are skinny, just like average sided folks.

But if you are correct, It could simply be engineered into the modification.


Along with turning us green with chlorophyl, so we can get 1/2 of our energy from sunlight


sport? dig? Apparently the 21st century has studiously avoided the UK

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:43:01 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I may well be mistaken, but I was always led to believe that dwarfs and midgets have faster metabolisms than those of us who are over four foot six. I've always liked the idea as it has a certain symmetry to it.

(I think, technically, a dwarf is short but of normal proportions, whereas a midget has some other problems with their build. I just can't bring myself to use the term "little people", to be honest: it's so mind numbingly patronising and dismissive it's untrue.)

I think when they were looking into photosynthesis in the '80s during the first flush of genetic research, the researchers decided it was more likely to turn us purple than green. Apparently the rhodopsin in the retinae could be mucked about with and spread through the skin to allow the conversion of sunlight to sugar. We'd still need to eat for protein and vitamins, though, and even with the skin as the biggest organ we have, it might not harvest that much sugar even if we spent all day strolling around outdoors in the nip. (A very bad idea for half the year in most of the northern hemisphere...)

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 12:55:05 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		Yeah I don't know for sure either.


Their activist groups seem to be demanding the use of "little people".

I agree with you, thats just insipid.



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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 2:16:43 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		It is a daft term, but I suppose if you've spent your life being called a midget, despite your proportions being correct, you'd probably find it a lot less offensive. I'm sure that'd get to you. I'm of the mind to find somebody mislabelling a dwarf as a midget and beat the shit out of them just thinking about that one, so a blanket term that isn't going to offend or upset somebody is probably a good thing, however Darby O'Gill it sounds...

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 4:14:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I feel like I have to comment that I'm delighted the case for genetic engineering as a solution to the problems of an over populated planet was been found seriously wanting.

Perhaps we can now move onto something with a slightly better chance of success.

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 4:20:59 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		How about killing 2/3 of the population, then?
The Club of Rome were very taken with that idea forty years back, I think...

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 7:23:08 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

Even now women are asked when are they going to have a baby as soon as they get married. Its that constant pressure to reproduce. I had one child. Didnt want another. And the comments are always... Why would you want him to be alone in teh world once you are gone? Alone???? There are now 7 billion people!

Thanks for an eloquent demonstration of how the "imperative to reproduce" impacts on the lives of women today tazzy.

I'm far from convinced that the removal of the overall need for humans to reproduce will relieve the pressure on individual women to have children. We might speculate that, on the whole, it will release women to pursue their careers and help reduce the effect of the 'glass ceiling'. So there could be some positive effects for womens' autonomy and equality.

OTOH I share your suspicion that the ideology of the nuclear family/heterosexual primacy is so deeply entrenched it will take many generations to change it to something more equitable .... which is not the best news for women, sexual minorities and others who are excluded from the protection of this prevailing myth/ideology.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/27/2011 7:25:15 PM >

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 7:36:01 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The only other solution potential would be monetary... as sad as that may sound. Either a monetary incentive to not have children, or a monetary penalty if they do.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 7:38:50 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

How about killing 2/3 of the population, then?
The Club of Rome were very taken with that idea forty years back, I think...


Well errr .... ummmm.... thanks for the suggestion Moonie. Sorry, but genocide isn't my thing.

I'm more interested in how the pressures brought about by overpopulation will impact on the world we live in, the way we live our lives and understand ourselves than the kind of measures that you're suggesting. I'm sure there must be someone who's interested in killing off 2/3 of the world's population though .... you might try the looney Right or some other demented ideologues. They've got a bit of a track record at that I seem to recall .....


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/27/2011 7:39:30 PM >

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 7:46:05 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The only other solution potential would be monetary... as sad as that may sound. Either a monetary incentive to not have children, or a monetary penalty if they do.

Isn't it interesting that the only country that has imposed compulsory limits on reproduction - China - has been forced to ease those restraints after a couple of generations of ruthless enforcement?

So you may have put your finger on it - if reproduction is going to come under State control, States will have to find more subtle ways of achieving their goals than the punitive approach used in China.

All this begs the questions: To what extent, if any, is State influence/interference in reproduction warranted or desirable in an overpopulated world?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/27/2011 7:48:03 PM >

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 8:02:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

To what extent, if any, is State influence/interference in reproduction warranted or desirable in an overpopulated world?


Now we are on that slippery slope. How would this be done? By income? By race? By lottery? By genetics? Its a scary thought to believe any government can tell someone they cannot have children. I can see a fine... well.. I cant, but at least those willing to pay the fine can have as many as they wish. But, even with that, what happens if you dont pay the fine? And then we could pay women not to have children, but what about women who are raped and get pregnant? does their money stop because of an act of violence not of their making?

It brings up far more problems than it solves.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/27/2011 8:03:10 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 9:36:07 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

To what extent, if any, is State influence/interference in reproduction warranted or desirable in an overpopulated world?


Now we are on that slippery slope. How would this be done? By income? By race? By lottery? By genetics? Its a scary thought to believe any government can tell someone they cannot have children. I can see a fine... well.. I cant, but at least those willing to pay the fine can have as many as they wish. But, even with that, what happens if you dont pay the fine? And then we could pay women not to have children, but what about women who are raped and get pregnant? does their money stop because of an act of violence not of their making?

It brings up far more problems than it solves.

Yes absolutely! A very slippery, scary slope indeed.

Yet the State is already involved in such matters directly and indirectly - through family planning services, pre- and post-natal healthcare, delivery wards, hospitals, tax policy to mention just a very few. It may not be either warranted or desirable to reduce this involvement either. Especially in less developed countries where the majority of new births occur and will continue to occur.

And is it prudent to leave all decisions to women? It's hardly likely that women will spontaneously and collectively decide to increase or decrease the numbers of children they have to suit the needs of the body politic is it? How can we put a cap on population growth without the active involvement of the State? Should we even be thinking it terms of capping population growth?

Does doing nothing bring up just as many problems as it solves?

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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 9:40:13 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I feel like I have to comment that I'm delighted the case for genetic engineering as a solution to the problems of an over populated planet was been found seriously wanting.

Perhaps we can now move onto something with a slightly better chance of success.


ok lets just stick to convention and create another big assed boogie man and have a few world wars!

Lets see we did the jews, we did the muslims, hell lets do the christians this round and see how many countries can be sucked in this time.   Lots of money to be made.

I'm sure they can find another building to blow up!  LOL

works every time.  dont need anything exotic.


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RE: 7,000,000,000+ humans on the planet ....... - 11/27/2011 10:05:51 PM   
SpanishMatMaster


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Status: offline 		Ok, tweakabelle, you do not answer my postings here or in Agnostics, so I think it is better if I leave it here and don't comment the rest.


< Message edited by SpanishMatMaster -- 11/27/2011 10:13:52 PM >

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