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Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 11:53:39 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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Religious believers distrust atheists more than they do members of other religious groups, gays or feminists, according to a new study by University of B.C. researchers.The only group the study's participants distrusted as much as atheists was rapists, said doctoral student Will Gervais, lead author of the study published online in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.That prejudice had a significant effect on what kinds of jobs people said they would hire atheists to do."People are willing to hire an atheist for a job that is perceived as low trust, for instance as a waitress," said Gervais."But when hiring for a high-trust job like daycare worker, they were like, nope, not going to hire an atheist for that job."The antipathy does not seem to run both ways, though. Atheists are indifferent to religious belief when it comes to deciding who is trustworthy."Atheists don't necessarily favour other atheists over Christians or anyone else," he said. "They seem to think that religion is not an important signal for who you can trust."The researchers found that religious believers thought that descriptions of untrustworthy people - people who steal or cheat - were more likely to be atheists than Christians, Muslims, Jews, gays or feminists.Gervais was surprised that people harbour such strong feelings about a group that is hard to see or identify. He opines that religious believers are just more comfortable with other people who believe a deity with the power to reward and punish is watching them."If you believe your behaviour is being watched [by God] you are going to be on your best behaviour," said Gervais. "But that wouldn't apply for an atheist. That would allow people to use religious belief as a signal for how trustworthy a person is."Religious belief is known to have a variety of social functions. Past research has found that common religious beliefs can promote cooperation within groups.Gervais started his line of inquiry about the exclusion of atheists after seeing a Gallup poll that suggested the majority of Americans would not vote for an atheist presidential candidate. Gervais and his colleagues conducted a series of six studies on a group of 350 American adults and a group 420 UBC students.But even in more secular Canada, distrust of atheists ran high."We see consistently strong effects," he said."Even here in Vancouver, our student participants still say atheists are really untrustworthy."
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Atheists+rapists+list+people+religious+believers+distrust+most+study+finds/5794699/story.html#ixzz1fPPTK8dY


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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 11:58:40 AM   
Hillwilliam


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More agnostic here but the ones I initially mistrust are those who wear their faith on their sleeve.

If someone has to TELL me what a good christian they are........they aren't.

I'd rather someone show me what a good person they are.

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 12:24:50 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Atheists are indifferent to religious belief when it comes to deciding who is trustworthy."Atheists don't necessarily favour other atheists over Christians or anyone else," he said. "They seem to think that religion is not an important signal for who you can trust."The researchers found that religious believers thought that descriptions of untrustworthy people - people who steal or cheat - were more likely to be atheists than Christians, Muslims, Jews, gays or feminists.

This is not a PR problem for Atheists. It is a problem of prejudice and perceived threat on the part of the religious who took part in the survey.
quote:

He opines that religious believers are just more comfortable with other people who believe a deity with the power to reward and punish is watching them."If you believe your behaviour is being watched [by God] you are going to be on your best behaviour," said Gervais. "But that wouldn't apply for an atheist.

The researcher opines that believers have a greater sense of ethical behavior because there is a Big God in the sky prepared to punish them and they believe Atheists lack an ethical code due to the absence of a punishing Diety. There is not a shred of research offered about the real ethical behavior of either group. So, opinion trumps reality. Not at all surprised.

And why do Athiests need a PR program in the first place as per the title of this thread? Just the OP's own prejudice perhaps?

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 12:53:03 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
This is not a PR problem for Atheists. It is a problem of prejudice and perceived threat on the part of the religious who took part in the survey.

THIS!

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 12:53:48 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

Atheists are indifferent to religious belief when it comes to deciding who is trustworthy."Atheists don't necessarily favour other atheists over Christians or anyone else," he said. "They seem to think that religion is not an important signal for who you can trust."The researchers found that religious believers thought that descriptions of untrustworthy people - people who steal or cheat - were more likely to be atheists than Christians, Muslims, Jews, gays or feminists.

This is not a PR problem for Atheists. It is a problem of prejudice and perceived threat on the part of the religious who took part in the survey.


Atheists are not often found in the religious groups that Christians (and other religious faiths) are know. They are more 'an army of one' than 'one of an army' mentality. As such, it is harder to trust that individual, if someone comes from a background to which the 'community' holds a certain level of standards, ethics, morals, and rules. Would you trust someone fresh in town with your newborn baby; or your fellow neighbor that's been in the house across the street for a dozen years?' I can see why Christians (and I suspect its true for different faiths) would not trust atheists (or those that dont share similar beliefs) for important jobs. Atheists by their own nature reject what Christians believe in. Would you want someone on a work project that is only in it for themselves and not the team as a whole? That's kind of how a Christian might view a Atheist's work ethic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

He opines that religious believers are just more comfortable with other people who believe a deity with the power to reward and punish is watching them."If you believe your behaviour is being watched [by God] you are going to be on your best behaviour," said Gervais. "But that wouldn't apply for an atheist.

The researcher opines that believers have a greater sense of ethical behavior because there is a Big God in the sky prepared to punish them and they believe Atheists lack an ethical code due to the absence of a punishing Diety. There is not a shred of research offered about the real ethical behavior of either group. So, opinion trumps reality. Not at all surprised.


I have this sense you are indeed an atheist and take what this researcher states cynically; like its some sort of 'cheap shot' directed at you personally. The researcher actually isnt entirely off base with this view point. No, he's not attacking you directly!

Back in the 1950's General Electric performed a study on the light levels and worker productivity. They took ten secretaries and placed them in a room together (all in a line at a single desk) facing a one way mirror. They were told to do their work as MANAGEMENT would be observing their behavior and work from 'time to time'. The researchers observed this test using several different lighting intensities. Only with near twilight levels, did the secretary's work begin to decrease. In fact, their work productivity had shot up considerably, less excuses to take breaks and made sure every 't' was cross. What the researchers took from this (as you may have guessed), is that the lighting had no effect on the secretaries but the belief in them, that they were being watched by....'an unseen force'...that they know is very powerful (they thought they might be fired).

Christians take that 'unseen force' not as some managers behind a one way mirror, by through God. So, they believe a fellow Christian would be a good work partner and less likely to undermine things than that of an Atheist. Dont take it personally. Would a hardcore Democrat hire a Republican underling (assuming the manager could ask and expect an answer....LEGALLY)? Or would they hire another fellow Democrat? Same idea, different form.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
And why do Athiests need a PR program in the first place as per the title of this thread? Just the OP's own prejudice perhaps?


A good question. Maybe I've given you insight on another way to look at what this researcher was explaining.

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 12:57:46 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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quote:

And why do Athiests need a PR program in the first place as per the title of this thread? Just the OP's own prejudice perhaps?


LOL.  Not hardly. While the title was more or less intended as a joke, it is sort of strange to think of myself as a member of a group only slightly more popular than rapists.

Jesus, Vincent, are you always so dour and judgmental?  The last thing CM needs is another poster with no sense of humor.  Take a fucking pill or something.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 12/2/2011 12:58:42 PM >


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 12:58:38 PM   
DomKen


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You just described in detail the ethical failings of christians and then tried to imply atheists are at fault? WTF!

If christians are so pathetically immoral that they need the constant threat of unending torture to simply obey the rules of society why do we let them out in public?

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 1:02:52 PM   
geilematz


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how can one explain a high crime rate in a "Christian" country?

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 1:05:25 PM   
nfcouple


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Atheists have a PR problem ? Nah. The religious have an IQ problem.

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 1:07:41 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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In answer to the question, would a hard core republican hire a democrat, the answer is yes, I have worked for plenty of right wingers in my day. 

I think the true message of the survey, joe, is that christians, at least those surveyed, can be remarkably close minded and bigoted.  They are obviously also afraid of opposing viewpoints.  No surprise there.

All I know is that I recently had an experience where a client I worked very hard for, and who I trusted to pay me, tried to rip me off on my fee.  If I hadn't taken various measures to protect myself, they would have succeeded.  These were, of course, good practicing Christians, so I guess they could justify their dishonesty to a nonbeliever like myself.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 1:09:35 PM   
Lucylastic


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they arent weally twue christians?

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 1:45:11 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Jesus, Vincent, are you always so dour and judgmental? The last thing CM needs is another poster with no sense of humor. Take a fucking pill or something.

Jesus Christ on a bicycle, semi! I missed the big "A" on your sleeve. An emoticon might have been useful, like or Take a course in writing humor, hey!

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 1:55:55 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Atheists are not often found in the religious groups that Christians (and other religious faiths) are know. They are more 'an army of one' than 'one of an army' mentality.

FFS, man. The community contains 15 - 18% nonbelievers who live ethical and peaceful lives. We are all around you. Your comments confirm your narrow vision.

quote:

Atheists by their own nature reject what Christians believe in. Would you want someone on a work project that is only in it for themselves and not the team as a whole?

I would suggest you acquaint yourself with humanist ethics and philosophy. It will help you understand what an asinine, narrow-minded, exclusionary, and prejudiced world view is revealed by your comment.

Sad, really. 16th Century thinking.

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 2:00:34 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

I think the true message of the survey, joe, is that christians, at least those surveyed, can be remarkably close minded and bigoted. They are obviously also afraid of opposing viewpoints. No surprise there.


THIS !!

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 2:07:12 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I think the true message of the survey, joe, is that christians, at least those surveyed, can be remarkably close minded and bigoted. They are obviously also afraid of opposing viewpoints. No surprise there.


THIS !!


Unfortunately this has been my experience also.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 3:36:19 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Religious believers distrust atheists more than they do members of other religious groups, gays or feminists
That makes perfect sense to me. In fact I would have been surprised if it had been different.

quote:

Atheists are indifferent to religious belief when it comes to deciding who is trustworthy."Atheists don't necessarily favour other atheists over Christians or anyone else," he said. "They seem to think that religion is not an important signal for who you can trust."
Same with this, no surprise, what I would expect such a study to show.

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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 3:46:25 PM   
tazzygirl


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~FR

Gervais and his colleagues conducted a series of six studies on a group of 350 American adults and a group 420 UBC students.

Guess what the article doesnt say....

What the results were.

All this snipping and snapping over less than 800 people... and no link to the study at all.



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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 3:58:37 PM   
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I want to point out that the survey does NOT say anything about what "Christians" feel, only "religious" people, without reference to what religion. I think the results are based on two factors.

1. An atheist, by his mere existence challenges the religious persons beliefs, and more than challenge them the way a follower of a different religion would, they reject them. Simply saying that one is an atheist is a complete denial and rejection of a religious person's deepest and most cherished beliefs. But as those beliefs cannot be substantiated and must, by definition, be upheld purely on faith, the existence of a person happily rejecting them with no obvious consequences calls into question, to at least some degree, those beliefs in the believers mind. Many religious people also find their beliefs to be self-evident, that god exists, in whatever form, is so deeply ingrained in their psyches that if a person is denying it, they must have some sort of ulterior motive, since what they are denying is so patently obvious to the believer. this makes the atheist seem to be a threat, just look at how some religious types on these boards throw "atheist" out as if it were a pejorative term.

2. Atheism is based on rationality, while religion is based on emotion, so it also follows that atheists would not consider religious beliefs to be a valid measure of a person's trustworthiness, since there is no rational basis for doing so. The religious person, being less conditioned to rely on reason and more conditioned to rely on emotion, is more likely to fall prey to an Us & Them mentality, its an instinctual tribal reaction among humans to do so, to identify with the similar and to distrust the different. It requires reason and conscious thought/effort to override such instinctual urges, which makes such overriding less likely among believers in this specific context, as it deals with an area <religious belief> where the believer has already discarded reason and rationality as a basis for making judgments.

Just my thoughts on it at the moment.



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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 4:07:15 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Guess what the article doesnt say....

What the results were.
  Yes it does, that's what the entire article is about; the results of the studies. The results are right in the headline:
quote:

Atheists, rapists top list of people religious believers distrust the most

They are in the very first line of the article. 

quote:

Religious believers distrust atheists more than they do members of other religious groups, gays or feminists, according to a new study by University of B.C. researchers.


You don't need the percentages or the raw numbers to report results, nor to discuss those results.



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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/2/2011 4:09:38 PM   
tazzygirl


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I do. Its silly to discuss something without knowing the data behind the numbers.

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