RE: TEBOW! (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 9:12:02 AM)

Bullshit FDD,Denver has put in a whole new package for Tebow in all the other examples you can name teams,though they will "dumb" down an offense for a young inexperienced qb will still run a pro style offense.
Tebows play is best suited to the SEC,not the NFL.




DarkSteven -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 9:14:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Bullshit FDD,Denver has put in a whole new package for Tebow in all the other examples you can name teams,though they will "dumb" down an offense for a young inexperienced qb will still run a pro style offense.
Tebows play is best suited to the SEC,not the NFL.
  Mike, you do realize that the Broncos are winning under Tebow?  Your argument seems to be that Tebow is a lousy QB, and the results argue otherwise.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 9:21:19 AM)

Not in the game he came in when Orton went down against the Chargers and Tebow almost pulled that one off too! Against Detroit, they tried to use a traditional, under center offense too. It was only in the wake of the disaster in Detroit that John Fox threw out that offence, went with Tebow strengths and a pounding rush. Fox is now being touted for Coach of the Year.

Look what happened when the rapist went down in Cleveland! Pittsburgh when uber conservative with Charlie Batch and he's a seasoned vet.




slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 9:23:08 AM)

No Steven,my argument is that this is not substainable and that as an organization they(Elway and Fox) have the responsibility to ascertain whether or not Tebow can be "coached up" during the off-season(probably the one player that suffered the most from the loss of an off season due to the strike) to a pro level or move on.
They can not build on a qb whose talents best lend themselves to the college game, so either that changes or they draft/trade for a qb.They will need a pro qb,how many games can you count on winning when it is a distinct possibilty that your qb will complete all of two passes...or sting the joint up for 51 minutes of a 60 min game ?




slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 9:24:55 AM)

Lord you gave them eyes,but they refuse to see.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 10:09:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

...they(Elway and Fox) have the responsibility to ascertain whether or not Tebow can be "coached up" during the off-season


nice way to leave your self an out there....




DarkSteven -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 10:20:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

No Steven,my argument is that this is not substainable and that as an organization they(Elway and Fox) have the responsibility to ascertain whether or not Tebow can be "coached up" during the off-season(probably the one player that suffered the most from the loss of an off season due to the strike) to a pro level or move on.
They can not build on a qb whose talents best lend themselves to the college game, so either that changes or they draft/trade for a qb.They will need a pro qb,how many games can you count on winning when it is a distinct possibilty that your qb will complete all of two passes...or sting the joint up for 51 minutes of a 60 min game ?


The exact same team was 1-4 with Orton and is now leading the division.  There is no question whatsoever that Tebow's results make him a good QB, IMO just below the level of Roethlisburger/Brees/Brady, who are in turn below Rodgers.  His freakish ability to pull wins from lost games is almost a superpower.

I'm not sure how other teams can come up with a Tebow killer in the offseason.  They've had days or weeks to prepare, and having several additional months may not produce anything.  IMO, the reason that the option is nit popular in the NFL is because so few QBs can run well enough to make it work, not that it's unsound.  And if it was so easy to defend against, the other teams wouldn't need an offseason to do so.

IMO, Denver has serious weaknesses in its receivers.  I expect them to draft a couple of them and maybe beef up the defense in the next draft.  If Tebow had better receivers, he'd have much better success.

In other words, while you claim that other teams will get better at defending Tebow next year, I see the opposite.  I see the pass becoming a more viable option, and with that, Denver will be a powerhouse.





slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 11:02:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

...they(Elway and Fox) have the responsibility to ascertain whether or not Tebow can be "coached up" during the off-season


nice way to leave your self an out there....

Are you daft ? I don't need an "out" I have no dog in this race,none whatsoever...I am a Giant and Jet fan and bear no responsibilty for the continued success of the Broncos.Elway and Fox however do bear that responsibilty and if you had been paying attention you would see that this is pretty much the public stance of both men.




DomKen -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 11:06:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Just a thought, Ken.

Way back when they played with leather helmets and round balls and I was playing (OK, not but 35 years ago) The job of the DE/Outside Backer which was me was to basically make the Quarterback wish he had never carried out a fake to my side of the field. If he even acts like he has the ball, the DE was supposed to BLAST his ass. This would make the QB a bit gunshy and if he's paying more attention to where your helmet is going to be planted than where his pitch man is located was a fumble is likely.

With the NFL protecting Quarterbacks as much as they are, wouldn't that make the option more effective as the DE/OLB is basically neutered as a weapon? I mean if one of those guys hits Tebow like they hit QB's back in the days of the veer, you're talking personal foul penalties, fines, suspensions and all kinds of crap.

That's the problem. The QB is protected from the DE's, LB's and S's that think QB's look best limping off the field when they're in the pocket in the act of throwing a pass. As soon as they're just running with the ball they lose all those special protections.

Tell that to James Harrison.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArnnSBhUUeYRx0Fw28XL_wJDubYF?slug=ap-steelers-harrison

McCoy had just thrown a pass. He was not running with the ball. Even if hadn't technically been roughing the passer it was still a helmet to helmet hit which the league no longer tolerates.




slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 11:12:45 AM)

Steven I am not discounting the possibilty that Tebow can be coached up to a level commesurate with his current position.The only case I am making is that this is not substainable(I know I am repeating myself....but damm you guys are acting dense)pro offense .In your own post you hit on one of the main reasons this is so...for Denver to go "all in" on Tebow they would need to draft and develope an,at the least,capable backup that can run the same offense.
Cause as sure as GOD made little green apples(you guys like the god referrences ?) Tebow will get hurt,again not a possibilty but an eventuality....hell Peyton has missed the whole year...and he is a pocket passer with a rocket release,a benificiary of all the rule changes designed to protect the games most valuable commodities...the qb's.Now keep running your signal caller and exposing him to vicious NFL hits and you better have a plan b.
So here is Elways decision,build completely around Tebow as is and commit to this offense....or coach up Tebow,cutting down on his esposure( not a sure thing,the possibilty exists that this is impossible)draft a Tebow clone to protect against the inevitable injury.....or go in another direction.
The jury is still out as to what Elway will do.




slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 11:14:12 AM)

Domken how do you like trying to have a logical discussion with folks who refuse to see things in a logical way ?
Almost as bad as talking to a rabid republican ,no?




January -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 11:50:19 AM)

quote:

am not discounting the possibilty that Tebow can be coached up to a level commesurate with his current position.


I'm happy you're saying that. But he's improving even now. Tebow's not the same player he was five weeks ago. It's not just a matter of getting better during a real off-season. I doubt Tebow is going to be running the option much during the playoffs, except for an occasional trick play.

I agree with DS about problems with Tebow's receivers. I suppose that chemistry might be improved during an off-season, though.

January




DomKen -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 12:15:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Domken how do you like trying to have a logical discussion with folks who refuse to see things in a logical way ?
Almost as bad as talking to a rabid republican ,no?

Beginning to feel like I'm banging my head against a wall.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 3:35:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I don't need an "out" I have no dog in this race,none whatsoever...I am a Giant and Jet fan and bear no responsibilty for the continued success of the Broncos.Elway and Fox however do bear that responsibilty and if you had been paying attention you would see that this is pretty much the public stance of both men.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I do mind is that he thinks God is on HIS side in a damm sporting event



Isn't this your real issue???

Isn't this why you said FUCK TEBOW

Though you have yet to show where he stated God is on their side and interceding in their wins.





slvemike4u -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 8:23:04 PM)

FDD you just dont get when your chain is being pulled do you ?
I could give a rats ass about Tebows religion,Tebow himself.....or you for that matter.




TheRaptorJesus -> RE: TEBOW! (12/14/2011 10:16:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Domken how do you like trying to have a logical discussion with folks who refuse to see things in a logical way ?
Almost as bad as talking to a rabid republican ,no?


Says the guy who thinks "They're big and fast" is a FOOTBALL reason.

I try to argue semantics and you argue athletics.

And do you know what they can do as an organization to have a suitable backup for Tebow if he gets hurt? Get a back up with a similar skill set.

Do you know who else is running the spread option in a different way and having some success? Carolina.

Can your brain process thoughts outside of the tiny little windows it chooses to leave open?

Probably not.




DarkSteven -> RE: TEBOW! (12/15/2011 3:38:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Steven I am not discounting the possibilty that Tebow can be coached up to a level commesurate with his current position. 


And here we have a fundamental disconnect.  You are implying that there's something wrong with him, that he can be "coached up" out of.  You're fixated on passing percentages.  He's got a will to win and ability to inspire his team and make them play better that you're overlooking.  He's got the ability to run and run well. 

A QB's job is not to throw nice passes.  A QB's job is to win games. 
quote:



The only case I am making is that this is not substainable(I know I am repeating myself....but damm you guys are acting dense)pro offense .


Yes, I hear you say that this is not sustainable.  You keep repeating it, but I still don't believe it.  The fact that I am not convinced by repetition does not make me dense. 
quote:



In your own post you hit on one of the main reasons this is so...for Denver to go "all in" on Tebow they would need to draft and develope an,at the least,capable backup that can run the same offense.
Cause as sure as GOD made little green apples(you guys like the god referrences ?) Tebow will get hurt,again not a possibilty but an eventuality


Now you're touching on something I can follow, and there's no good answer.  Elite QBs are expensive, rare creatures.  The standard strategy is to get the best QB possible for a team, and have as backups Kyle Orton types - decent QBs, capable of keeping your team in a game, but not studs. 

You are asking the question - to what extent should a team design its plays to match up with its starting QB's abilities and try for success, or dumb down its plays so that the backup will be better able to match a generic scheme?  Ideally, the Broncos will draft a running QB as a backup as TRJ says, but I would submit that it's better to use Tebow as much as possible. 
quote:



....hell Peyton has missed the whole year...and he is a pocket passer with a rocket release,a benificiary of all the rule changes designed to protect the games most valuable commodities...the qb's.Now keep running your signal caller and exposing him to vicious NFL hits and you better have a plan b. 


Yeah, Indy without Manning is a lock for 0-16.  But so far Tebow is getting hit less when he runs than when he stayed in the pocket.
quote:



So here is Elways decision,build completely around Tebow as is and commit to this offense....or coach up Tebow,cutting down on his esposure( not a sure thing,the possibilty exists that this is impossible)draft a Tebow clone to protect against the inevitable injury.....or go in another direction.
The jury is still out as to what Elway will do.


Elway has no choice.

Since Elway retired as QB, the Broncos have sucked.  Under Shanahan, they consistently finished around 8-8.  Occasionally they'd get to play an offseason game.  Under McDaniels, the team did so poorly that fans with tickets weren't even showing up.

Since Tebow's been starting, the team's gone from basement dweller to division leader.  The strategy of crushing defense to keep the game close and then a miracle finish at the end, has driven fan interest through the roof.  I have no doubt that team merchandise is flying off the shelves.  Viewership of the Broncos-Patriots game will be huge.  Tebow's becoming a celebrity, and a lot of it is due to the team adapting to his style.

There's a possibility that Brady will reel off a few quick TDs and stomp all over the Broncos.  But it won't be easy - the Broncos defense is killer.  And if the game is close, and the Patriots are gasping for oxygen at the end... that's what the Broncos do best.

We here in Denver have been football-starved for well over a decade.. Right now, we're on the craziest, giddiest, most wonderful ride, well beyond our imaginations.  We're gonna stay on that ride!  You might be right, that it's not sustainable, but we're going to enjoy it in the moment.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: TEBOW! (12/15/2011 4:04:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Tebows play is best suited to the SEC,not the NFL.


Belichick doesn't see mechanical issues in Broncos QB Tebow

Belichick discussed Tebow on Wednesday, disputing the perception that the QB has faulty throwing mechanics.

"I don't agree with any of that," Belichick said, according to the Boston Herald. "I think his passing is good. It was good in college; he was a very productive passer in college, and he’s thrown the ball well in this league. Throws it good short, throws it intermediate, can throw it deep. He's got some very good throws, as good as anybody that you want to put in there."



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8250f633/article/belichick-doesnt-see-mechanical-issues-in-broncos-qb-tebow?module=HP11_headline_stack


On if Tebow is more accurate now than he was in college: “It looks about the same as he did in college. He can run, he can throw, he’s got good poise, doesn’t turn the ball over, makes good decisions.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2011/12/14/patriots-coach-bill-belichick-doesnt-understand-why-you-think-tebows-mechanics-are-crappy-and-other-stuff/




SoulPiercer -> RE: TEBOW! (12/15/2011 4:23:59 AM)

Tom Brady was not Tom Brady before he became Tom Brady.

Go back and look at Tom Brady's stellar performance at the NFL combine before he was drafted. I use the term stellar sarcastically for those who haven't seen the tape of him running the 40 or the wounded ducks he was tossing around. Then tell me how many experts said "this kid is going to be a hall of famer!" Zero. None. Am I saying Tebow will be a hall fame QB? No I am not.

But a lot of the experts said Tebow would NEVER be successful as an NFL QB. He is now 7 and 1 as a starter. For now, he is successful.




GreedyTop -> RE: TEBOW! (12/15/2011 5:09:16 AM)

~FR~

*runs in to give SP a big ol' hug and smoooch*




Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.1083984