RE: Stuff about stuff (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 9:59:08 AM)

I agree, trusting our "gut" is something we should always do.  I think a lot of people spend too much time questioning those gut feelings and all that questioning steers them astray.

My views are very different for live apart/live together.  I was with someone for a very long time, and we both, over time had given money/things to each other, no questions asked, nor expect of return.  We discussed with each other if we were thinking of major expenditures, even though neither was "putting in" for the other, it was just getting the other's opinion.  He would often express how he thought I should spend on certain issues and I would listen, not because he "ordered" it, but because it made sense. 

Living together is totally different.  Things get co-mingled, and not just financially.  Both parties need to think how their expenditures affect the other party (or parties).  I don't think many people (I won't say "all") go into any relationship thinking about the end and what will happen.  I don't think they should.  But years ago, often men took care of all things financial and gave their wives and allowance.  When those men died, those women had no idea not only about life insurance policies or if the mortgage had been paid, but didn't even know where the check book was!  Those women were hit with reality and didn't have the tools they needed to deal with it.  Other times, when those men decided to trade their wives for a younger model (or any other mid life crisis), everything was in their name only, and those women were kicked out of their homes with nothing but their children.  We have laws for married couples today that prevent that from happening, but there are still ways that it happens.

So to me, while I can be totally optimistic about a relationship, common sense tells me that when it comes to things like finances, everyone needs to make sure they have a plan for the unexpected, whether it be death of one partner, or the death of the relationship.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 11:00:07 AM)

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not saying that people shouldn't plan for things.
If a person is good, I don't think he'd be terribly interested in leaving someone destitute. I think planning for the end comes part and parcel with this type of arrangement -- it's what's responsible.
But admittedly, I don't have experience with it.

It doesn't bother me, based on the idea that a good person would try not to ruin someone else's life. :p
And yes, "good people" become bastards in divorces, etc, but maybe they were just bastards all along.




tazzygirl -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 11:25:54 AM)

Lilly, you are such a doll. But, just because someone is "good" in a relationship, doesnt mean they wont turn "shitty" when it ends.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 11:35:52 AM)

Like I said, maybe they were just shitty to begin with, they were just good at not emphasizing it around someone they were trying to impress.

That's why I said I pay attention to how a guy treats someone he won't get anything from.
When I think back about people who have let me down, there was usually something that would've let me know it could happen, if I'd just not been in denial. :p

(also -- i wanted to edit this post, rather than make a new one -- people I think of as "good" aren't flawless people - they can have bad moods, they can make mistakes, they can do things that are bad, but they also own up to those things. "Good" doesn't mean "pure as the undriven snow.")




tazzygirl -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 12:29:33 PM)

Want to know how a man will treat you a few years down the line? Watch him with a waitress, a cashier, a delivery boy.. not when they are perfect, but when they make mistakes.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 12:32:24 PM)

Exactly




LafayetteLady -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 1:29:59 PM)

Those examples *could* be a good indicator, but they also can be an indicator of a con man (or woman, or person).  Someone who is a con will intentionally be nice to all those people.  Why?  Because people think it is a good indicator of who they are, of course!

Sadly, the only real gauge for how someone will be at the end of their relationship with you is how they talk about or deal with past relationships.  If a guy is always bitching about an ex, good indication they won't be good to you if that time comes.

It still doesn't mean that the person was a shitty person and you didn't notice it.  When a long term relationship ends, there are a lot of emotions going on typically.  Anger, grief, feelings of failure, etc. all play a part in that.  That's why I always say it is better to be safe than sorry.  Have the discussion when mingling (or eliminating) income is going to happen.  If you are satisfied with the answers, go for it.  But no one should ever be satisfied with someone simply saying, "You know I would never do that."




tazzygirl -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 1:38:09 PM)

My ex rarely mentioned his exes.. except to say they didnt work out.




Awareness -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 1:38:23 PM)

  No, that would be a "stop whining like a pussy".  It's alright dude, I'm sure someone here will give you attention if you beg them hard enough for it.





tazzygirl -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 1:39:56 PM)

If a man begs me, he better be ready to do the dishes and laundry.




Awareness -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 1:42:31 PM)

  Make him wear one of those aprons too.




tazzygirl -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 1:53:45 PM)

Nude and the neighbors get a show on his way to the laundry room




LafayetteLady -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 4:54:57 PM)

Well, you keep saying you got yourself a good one, so that means my theory, so far with a wonderful sample size of ONE, proves true, lol.




hausboy -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 8:37:51 PM)

Hey Lilly
You know, I have to wonder.  Those who say they are slaves and don't own their stuff...and their owner/Master/Mistress etc. can do whatever they choose with their stuff.... I have to wonder about that.  One thing that I've learned on my journey to become a minimalist (not there yet, but taking the journey...) is that I'm damn attached to my "stuff" and most people are.  Quite frankly, people get attached to stuff that ISN'T even theirs.  When I've told folks that I'm getting rid of certain "stuff" they not only try to talk me out of it (WHY? It's not even YOUR stuff?!??!) but they get defensive about why they are keeping their stuff.  (again....I don't care.  they can do whatever they want with their own stuff)

So if a Domme says "You don't need your stuff anymore.  I'm going to toss all of your baby photos, photos of your parents/family....that stuffed bear you've had since you were three...your college diploma....your favorite leather jacket."....and just insert whatever "stuff" you have that you couldn't bear parting with...    That's going to be blindly accepted because that's what the Mistress or Master wants?   And what happens if he or she leaves you down the road?   No regrets?  Hell, no, not for this boy.

I guess this is where I dramatically differ from the those who are slaves.
Even when I was a live-in 24/7....what was mine, was mine.  When I left the Household, whatever I arrived with, that's what I left with.  (kinda like prison, if that analogy works for you)  When I was in a relationship, we weren't a 24/7 Domme/sub relationship--we were equals except in the bedroom.  She left me unexpectedly--I certainly thought we were going to be together forever--suddenly, everything that was "ours" had to be dropped into the category of  "hers" and "mine."

I know it's a bit inflammatory to say this--and I'm not trying to bait anyone here--but sometimes I think some of sentiments posted here are truly just hot air to impress others, and that their reality is far from what they type. (that's not directed at anyone in particular)




littlewonder -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 9:10:16 PM)

heh..I dunno..I'm a minimalist. Everyone who comes to my place always asks "where's all your stuff?". I just don't have a need for a lot of stuff. It just doesn't matter to me. When I moved here to Bmore I either sold everything I had, threw it out or gave it to the Salvation Army. I only brought one small pickup truck worth of stuff. I live in an efficiency with barely enough room for a couch, tv and bed.

I have no idea where my graduation diploma is or any other paperwork for that matter. I just rarely ever keep papers. Every picture I've ever had of family was scanned onto my computer and I keep them on an online directory. I gave the actual photos to my daughter and sister. Why would I need to keep them? CDS? Don't exist. Again, all uploaded to an online directory.

When my husband died I kept nothing at all except for a small few trinkets and I gave them to my daughter when she moved out. Again, I had my husband's memory. That's all I need. Those things I do have are out of necessity to be able to live but if Master one day felt they were just a hindrance and causing me more trouble than it was worth then so be it. His choice. Personally I'd probably think "good riddance..less stuff around to keep clean" lol...things are just that....things.

When my husband died and I was raising a daughter on my own I realized that material things are of no importance. Give me a living breathing family and partner and I'm more than happy....then again I tell Master all the time that if I hadn't met him, when my daughter moved out I was planning on joining a nunnery. If anything happened to him or us, yup, that's probably what I'd do.





tazzygirl -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 9:35:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Well, you keep saying you got yourself a good one, so that means my theory, so far with a wonderful sample size of ONE, proves true, lol.


Ya know, LL, the man I am with now doesnt talk abotu his exes either, beyond mentioning small stories that are typically amusing.

Neither of them dogged their exes. Then again, neither do I.




littlewonder -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 9:46:28 PM)

Same here. We don't really talk about exes. I couldn't tell you anything about his exes and I don't ask because it just simple isn't important.





Ishtarr -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/10/2011 10:32:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

 Slave means slave.  That means you have no rights.  If a chick wants to pretend to be a slave, I personally do not give a flying fuck, but I'm not going to fall in like some brainwashed fucktard who thinks slave is some relativistic definition which is unique to each couple.

I've seen far too many people claim slavery and then try and assert their fucking rights.  Fact is, being a slave is not a casual commitment like putting on a new set of fucking clothes.  Being a slave means you've given up all your self-determination because you utterly and completely believe in your master's right, willingness and competence.



So, I have a couple questions.

If you have a girl ready for that kind of commitment who wants to be a slave. You take her as you slave, treat her as such. Everything in nicely defined and established, both know their parts and all goes well until a couple years down the line, for whatever reason, she changes her mind and decided she doesn't want to be a slave anymore and wants to leave. What do you do?

I'm assuming that you're not going to keep her chained up 24/7 and keep her by force. Simple because keeping an illegal slave who might kill you in your sleep the moment she's got a chance seems to much of a logistic hassle for a man as practical as you. So what do you envision would happen?

Do you actually kick her out on the street without a cent to her name, or would you make some provisions? Would it depend?
If you would, then what is your reasoning for doing so?
If you wouldn't, then how would you react if she drags the law into the situation? Do you have your bases covered from the start as to prevent such from being possible?

I'm always curious for a glimpse in the mind of those who are actually honest and determined about their intension to keep slaves as slaves, considering how our current system overs plenty of opportunity to complicate such a situations.




Awareness -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/11/2011 1:25:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr
So, I have a couple questions.

If you have a girl ready for that kind of commitment who wants to be a slave. You take her as you slave, treat her as such. Everything in nicely defined and established, both know their parts and all goes well until a couple years down the line, for whatever reason, she changes her mind and decided she doesn't want to be a slave anymore and wants to leave. What do you do?
Ishtarr, it's a valid question, but you're going to have to answer a question yourself.

Is slavery:  A) an emotional state
                   B) a piece of role-playing
                    C) a consensual hallucination between two people?

From my perspective, if a slave ever wants to leave, then it's the responsibility of the Master.  Either he chose poorly to begin with or he's simply not mastered her well.  Either way, he has to accept responsibility for the outcome, which in this instance is to let her go.  I argued quite some time ago that slavery within a Gorean style definition simply was not possible in our society - which implies that ALL slavery is either a piece of role-playing or a power structure which exists between two people to an extent which flouts federal law.

Now, if - purely as an example - our laws allowed Gorean style slavery, then leaving would not be an option.  Then again, I suspect women would think long and hard before voluntarily entering into such an arrangement, because the potential outcome is more far-reaching.

Essentially, if a woman desires to be mastered and wishes to call herself 'slave', she either accepts what that implies or she may as well call herself a sub.  Frankly, I think less than 1% of self-identified slaves are even capable of accepting that reality - which implies that the moniker of 'slave' within a BDSM context has become essentially meaningless.  It's a facile mockery of actual slavery.  An erotically-charged piece of nonsense which self-identified slaves use to try and elevate themselves above 'mere' subs.

As for the rest - if you're responsible for a slave, you're responsible for everything, including how it ends - I think it's important to always leave a girl better than when you found her, but the idea of  slave alimony or a severance cheque is certifiably bonkers.

The mistake you've made Ishtarr is to presume I keep or intend to keep slaves.  I don't.  It's impractical within this society and it's pretty much a fiction anyway - slaves are no different to subs, it's just that some of them have a superiority complex which they like to share with their fellow subs.

Basically if a slave has concerns or fallback plans for their current situation with their master, then they're not a slave - at least not to that Master.  They haven't accepted their Master as being the one who has concern and responsibility for them.  Hedging your bets in regard to your Master essentially means you're fooling yourself.




Focus50 -> RE: Stuff about stuff (12/11/2011 2:50:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

  No, that would be a "stop whining like a pussy". 


Whoa; think I was about 6 or 7 when I last got "spanked" with a zinger like that.

Ouch!

Focus.




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