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Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 6:12:02 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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Status: offline 		Following recent rigged elections that saw the return of Putin's party to power (with a highly reduced majority in the Duma) Russians have taken to the streets en masse to demand new, fair, clean elections.

Media reports speak of c50, 000 Muscovites and c10, 000 St Petersberg residents demonstrating their anger in the streets, scenes unprecedented in recent Russian history. Has the democratic bug finally reached Russia?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2011/dec/10/russia-elections-putin-protest

Has the Arab Spring hit Moscow in the middle of the Russian winter? Will there be new elections? How will this play out? Will it influence Putin's run at another term as Russian President? Will Russians finally get the open functional democracy they deserve? Can Russians free themselves from the ex-KGB/gangster Mafia they have laboured under since Putin first achieved power?

These are just of few of the questions raised by these events. They're meant to open discussion, not represent my view. What do you think?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/10/2011 6:13:11 AM >

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 11:14:56 AM   
ashjor911


Posts: 7793
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From: balcony, having a Smoke
Status: offline 		I really think that there was anoter 2 men other than Putin in the election,
& he did not fuck the country for over 10 years or so,
in his defence, there was not " complete " Objection " on the election, bottom line he won,
its like when bush reelected ? what happend? only few million lost?

to tell you the truth, no one cares who rule & who dose not,
only thing they & I care about is a " Limited freedom + the basic things that keep me from death"

I am now, Cold with no fuel for heating, & the things I used to buy for 10 $ it worth now over 25$.
its the cost I am willing to pay, but not all can pay that price....

Arab Spring, Fuck that its Arab Distruction

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 1:29:26 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Hi ashjor,

It saddens me to hear you're going through difficult and dangerous times. The media reports about your part of the world we see here are shocking, frightening. Just about every one here in Australia hopes that you guys succeed in achieving "Limited freedom + the basic things that keep me from death" and a whole lot more too.

Success is within your grasp! History is on your side. Go for it!

Our hearts, thoughts, best wishes and (from those of us who pray) prayers are with you and your compatriots in your struggle to achieve freedom and democracy.



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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 2:42:42 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Russia has had many revolutions in their recent and distant past... I think they would be insulted to be characterized as Arab spring.

Butch

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 3:52:44 PM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Russia has had many revolutions in their recent and distant past... I think they would be insulted to be characterized as Arab spring.

Butch


Its not characterized as Arab spring, they are not Arabs,
next time try to activate your brain before you insult another group.


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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 3:55:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911


Arab Spring, Fuck that its Arab Distruction


What a surprise.

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 4:23:30 PM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911


Arab Spring, Fuck that its Arab Distruction


What a surprise.


do you want to know why its Arab Distruction?, & dont act like surprised now I know you love see that happen
when was the nato hit on libya, there was no russian veto.
the russians where against the nato attacks till the very last minute.
but "the big boys" played it nice & devided that damn cake.
in here there is not that much of oil, so why the hell should they boather about anybody in here.
remember that US & the UN have a damn history with the siege on the Iraqi regime, if you remember it was 13 years.
that not saddam did pay his price, only the Iraqi people pay a Fucking huge Price.

Excuse me in the name of "OIL for FOOD".
This is just to fucking Much....
& willbeurdaddy live there for 2 days & tell me if you surprised then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwcn7qPk_tE&feature=player_embedded

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 4:31:53 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911


Arab Spring, Fuck that its Arab Distruction


What a surprise.


do you want to know why its Arab Distruction?, & dont act like surprised now I know you love see that happen
when was the nato hit on libya, there was no russian veto.
the russians where against the nato attacks till the very last minute.
but "the big boys" played it nice & devided that damn cake.
in here there is not that much of oil, so why the hell should they boather about anybody in here.
remember that US & the UN have a damn history with the siege on the Iraqi regime, if you remember it was 13 years.
that not saddam did pay his price, only the Iraqi people pay a Fucking huge Price.

Excuse me in the name of "OIL for FOOD".
This is just to fucking Much....
& willbeurdaddy live there for 2 days & tell me if you surprised then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwcn7qPk_tE&feature=player_embedded


In case you dont realize it, I was being ironic.

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 5:47:05 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Russia has had many revolutions in their recent and distant past... I think they would be insulted to be characterized as Arab spring.

Butch



Is someone having an extra-precious day .... or what?

My first reaction to this post was to ask myself: Is it possible to come up with a thought like that without first having a view that the term "Arab' is inherently pejorative? - that to describe anything as 'Arab" is to somehow diminish or devalue it.

As I write this post, perhaps 5 or 6 hours later, I'm unable to report that I've managed to contrive a positive answer to that question.

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 7:06:28 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Yea...go to Beslan and start talking Arab spring crap and see what happens.

Butch

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 7:33:40 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		The hideous atrocity in Beslan was carried out by Chechen terrorists, not Arabs.

So you'll have to point out to me the connection you see between Beslan and Arabs, because I can't see any at first glance. It's possible that you have in mind that Chechen terrorists and some Arab terrorist groups claim similar Islamic inspiration.

Conflating 'Chechen', 'Arab', 'Muslim' and 'Islamic fundamentalism" is something I'll quite happily leave to bigots tyvm. Do they all look the same too, to you?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/10/2011 7:35:14 PM >

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 9:27:51 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		If you dig a little deeper you will find there were Arabs involved in the attack and Arab financing of the operation so get off your high horse. I am only saying I believe there is a lot less support and appreciation of the Arab spring in Russia.

And as far as that goes there is little respect for the so called Arab spring…fuck up… here in my neighborhood anyway. This opinion is not bigoted at all… It has nothing to do with Arabs in general.

What good has the so called Arab spring brought to the average Egyptian, Libyan, Syrian, or any other Arab country? What universal freedoms have been gained?…None…just more killing and the transfer in power from one fanatic group to another.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/10/2011 9:37:33 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

Can Russians free themselves from the ex-KGB/gangster Mafia they have laboured under since Putin first achieved power?


You have the common misconceptions about Putin I see.

That's OK, millions were spent to demonize him.

T^T

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/11/2011 3:45:03 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

Can Russians free themselves from the ex-KGB/gangster Mafia they have laboured under since Putin first achieved power?


You have the common misconceptions about Putin I see.

That's OK, millions were spent to demonize him.

T^T


No one knows the exact amount of wealth Putin has amassed. It is known to be considerable.This estimate, in The Guardian dated 2007 talks of c$40 billion - making him Europe's richest man, if true.

Nor is it clear how much of his personal fortune was gained legally, if indeed any of it was gained legally. I don't know how much a KGB officer earns, or how much the Russian President's salary is but neither is measured in the billions.

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/11/2011 3:52:19 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		How does that differ from the Bush portfolio ?

Putin actually did ALOT of things for the country against formidable pressure. Thisis why the media demonizes him today. However not so long ago he was called "one of the few competent leaders". Believe it or not the guy in Iran is quite competent as well.

But I don't want to dwell on it.

T^T

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/11/2011 10:47:48 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you dig a little deeper you will find there were Arabs involved in the attack and Arab financing of the operation so get off your high horse. I am only saying I believe there is a lot less support and appreciation of the Arab spring in Russia.

And as far as that goes there is little respect for the so called Arab spring…fuck up… here in my neighborhood anyway. This opinion is not bigoted at all… It has nothing to do with Arabs in general.

What good has the so called Arab spring brought to the average Egyptian, Libyan, Syrian, or any other Arab country? What universal freedoms have been gained?…None…just more killing and the transfer in power from one fanatic group to another.

Butch

Oh hey I agree. hasn't every revolution been settled and fully democratized, institutions and all in just say...a week or so ?

Hell, look at history's post-revolutionary exercise in instituting liberty and justice for all. I can't find much.

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/12/2011 5:28:30 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Your satire is noted...time will tell. I hope it does all work out for the people involved. But...right now can you truly say the Arab spring has brought peace, freedom, human rights and stability to the area?

It looks to me exactly as I described it...one fanatical group replacing another.

The way it is playing out is nothing to be admired or placed as an example for revolutions throughout the world or even the occupy movement here in the US.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/12/2011 6:29:51 AM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Your satire is noted...time will tell. I hope it does all work out for the people involved. But...right now can you truly say the Arab spring has brought peace, freedom, human rights and stability to the area?

It looks to me exactly as I described it...one fanatical group replacing another.



I hope not,
however the "peace, freedom, human rights and stability to the area". can not be achieved over night, or a year.
give it some time,


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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/12/2011 8:41:32 AM   
SpanishMatMaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Following recent rigged elections that saw the return of Putin's party to power (with a highly reduced majority in the Duma) Russians have taken to the streets en masse to demand new, fair, clean elections.

Media reports speak of c50, 000 Muscovites and c10, 000 St Petersberg residents demonstrating their anger in the streets, scenes unprecedented in recent Russian history. Has the democratic bug finally reached Russia?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2011/dec/10/russia-elections-putin-protest

Has the Arab Spring hit Moscow in the middle of the Russian winter? Will there be new elections? How will this play out? Will it influence Putin's run at another term as Russian President? Will Russians finally get the open functional democracy they deserve? Can Russians free themselves from the ex-KGB/gangster Mafia they have laboured under since Putin first achieved power?

These are just of few of the questions raised by these events. They're meant to open discussion, not represent my view. What do you think?
Many things. I travel regularly to Russia, I know some Russian and I know many Russians. And many Russians know me, actually thousands, I was a bit well-known in some Russian circles.

But you tend to ignore my answers so... nevermind...


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RE: Arab Spring in Moscow? - 12/12/2011 11:04:20 AM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpanishMatMaster
Many things. I travel regularly to Russia, I know some Russian and I know many Russians. And many Russians know me, actually thousands, I was a bit well-known in some Russian circles.

But you tend to ignore my answers so... nevermind...

If you can provide an answers without sending hate message in the answers, then fire away,



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