RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus

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kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 1:29:10 PM)
quote: And exactly HOW do you imagine this will stop an actual rapist? Seriously. I'm sure this is for his other category of rapist - the accidental one who is merely confused and misreading signals.

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 1:34:12 PM)
quote: I saw those statistics about existing police rape cases where the rate of false reporting is consistent with other crimes. My concern is that with the statistics coming out from recent surveys that rape is more prevalent than the police statistics- is that the police are going to say we have to arrest more rapists- and then the false reports start increasing. In short- if we start arresting more people accused of rape using a broader definition- then is there a concurrent rise in false reports? I think you have the cart before the horse here. There's no quota system like with speeding tickets. What's the broader definition to which you object?

tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 1:37:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: [sm=m23.gif] omg... now every time a guy opens the door for me, I will be watching where his eyes focus.. Here i thought guys were just being polite.. [sm=ofcourse.gif] ...your nose orgasm... TMI! [:D] Geeze, why do you think men invented the whole concept of holding doors open for women? Because you're too weak to open a door yourself? Noooooo.... it's because it gives us an excellent chance to check out the rear view!" Now let me get that for you ma'am. [:)] so.. so.... you mean when a guy lets me into the grocery line ahead of him cuz i only have 2 items.. its all just a devious ploy to look at my butt??? [sm=hewah.gif]

Lucylastic -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 1:37:29 PM)
quote: I think we all can look back on our youth and feel all that about some of the things we did, and I agree, it doesn't even come close to what women who are raped actually feel. One big difference is that while we may feel shame and guilt, it is over things we still wilingly did as opposed to what someone forced upon us. We've come a long way. The law tends to try to err on the side of caution making it difficult to distinguish between the after morning regret and actual rape. Sadly, it means that it becomes harder to prosecute those real cases, but it also does something to protect men from being wrongly accused, which isn't a bad thing either. After all, while men who do commit rape deserve no pity or mercy, a man who is wrongly accused by a woman with "morning after regret" ends up having his whole life ruined which, while not meant to diminish what women who are raped suffer, is still not fair to those men. I leave the grey areas to the specialists, I initmately know men who have been put thru the horror of false memories, of rape and molestation, and the damage done to their lives and I in no way condone it. However I do not have blinkers on as far as "the truth and justice". and the lies people can and will tell. I get very annoyed with some claims, but I dont expect people to have my experience or feelings. Im in the wrong kinda lifestyle to be doing that Edited to fix quote box

tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 1:48:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct I saw those statistics about existing police rape cases where the rate of false reporting is consistent with other crimes. My concern is that with the statistics coming out from recent surveys that rape is more prevalent than the police statistics- is that the police are going to say we have to arrest more rapists- and then the false reports start increasing. In short- if we start arresting more people accused of rape using a broader definition- then is there a concurrent rise in false reports? Sam I agree with the surveys that rape is more prevalent than those reported.. there are good reasons for that.. the justice system makes the victim a victim again, puts her on trial in an effort to defend the rapist.. there is a lot of shame the victim endures, she didnt fight enough, her dress was too short, she was asking for it, etc.. and it happens that a victim's relationship with her hubby or boyfriend changes.. its not unheard of for the relationship to end after a rape.. few women want that kinda fame, as previously suggested.. so of course victims may not want to come forward.. the problem with that is that the rapist is not stopped, he goes on raping.. leaving more victims.. but just because a rape isnt reported doesnt make it false or less a crime..

samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 1:49:44 PM)
Kalikshama I don't think I have the cart before the horse- prosecutors are political animals and if the public begins demanding that we arrest more rapists, well, we'll arrest more people and accuse them of the crime. The broader definition of rape- the one being used in these surveys- "unwanted sexual contact". Sam

Marc2b -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:02:14 PM)
quote: so.. so.... you mean when a guy lets me into the grocery line ahead of him cuz i only have 2 items.. its all just a devious ploy to look at my butt??? Probably, but not necessarily. I mean, he might be an actual nice guy in which case checking out your butt is just a bonus. Virtue does have its own rewards, after all. [:)]

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:02:41 PM)
From the link from your post 54: 8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? 9. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man threatened or used some degree of physical force (twisting your arm, holding you down, etc.) to make you? 10. Have you had sexual acts (anal or oral intercourse or penetration by objects other than the penis) when you didn't want to because a man threatened or used some degree of physical force (twisting your arm, holding you down, etc.) to make you? That's a different thing from "unwanted sexual contact." Was there a different survey?

tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Kalikshama I don't think I have the cart before the horse- prosecutors are political animals and if the public begins demanding that we arrest more rapists, well, we'll arrest more people and accuse them of the crime. The broader definition of rape- the one being used in these surveys- "unwanted sexual contact". Sam so.. unwanted sexual contact isnt a crime? is that what you are saying??? You really dont get it..

samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:20:39 PM)
"8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " That's not unwanted sexual contact? Is it rape? Sam

LaTigresse -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct "8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " That's not unwanted sexual contact? Is it rape? Sam YES!!!!!!!!!!!

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:25:33 PM)
quote: "8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " That's not unwanted sexual contact? Is it rape? Sam I had "unwanted sexual contact" with my ex husband all the time. It wasn't rape. This is: "8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " So, you'd like to throw out that part of the definition?

tj444 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct "8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " That's not unwanted sexual contact? Is it rape? Sam If a man grabs you and touches you sexually when you didnt want to be touched (even if there is no intercourse), is that a crime?

samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:44:17 PM)
"This is: "8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " So, you'd like to throw out that part of the definition?" Let's make sure we're reading this the same way, because I was unable to find these headings in the report I saw. My translation- Man buys a woman a few drinks- they have sex- which she regrets the next morning. Not rape in my book- where's the violence or threat of violence? This is assuming that the alcohol or drugs were imbibed willingly. If the consumption is forced- then it's rape. Sam

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:50:08 PM)
quote: "This is [rape]: "8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? " So, you'd like to throw out that part of the definition?" quote: Let's make sure we're reading this the same way, because I was unable to find these headings in the report I saw. My translation- Man buys a woman a few drinks- they have sex- which she regrets the next morning. Not rape in my book- where's the violence or threat of violence? This is assuming that the alcohol or drugs were imbibed willingly. If the consumption is forced- then it's rape. Sam Oy, it's NOT the same thing and we covered this pages ago. Didn't want to at the time does not equal morning after regrets

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 2:52:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama http://aspiringeconomist.com/index.php/2009/09/11/rape-statistics-1-in-4/ I disagree with the author that this survey question: Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn’t want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs? Means the same as survey critics' conclusion: An affirmative answer was counted as rape. In other words, a women who regretted a one night stand after a night of drinking was considered as having been sexually assaulted. I didn't want to at the time plus my ability to consent was impaired does not equal I regretted it afterwards. From the comments: Also, later researchers repeated Koss’ study with that question replaced by “Have you engaged in sexual intercourse when you didn’t want to but were so intoxicated under the influence of alcohol or drugs that you could not stop it or object?” It didn’t change the results. http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html Koss, however, insisted that her criteria conformed with the legal definitions of rape used in some states, and she cited in particular the statute on rape of her own state, Ohio: "No person shall engage in sexual conduct with another person . . . when . . . for the purpose of preventing resistance the offender substantially impairs the other person's judgment or control by administering any drug or intoxicant to the other person" (Ohio revised code 1980, 2907.01A, 2907.02).[18] Koss now concedes that question eight was badly worded. Indeed, she told the Blade reporters, "At the time I viewed the question as legal; I now concede that it's ambiguous."[20]

TheFireWithinMe -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 3:07:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetCheri Maudit tete quaree. Errrrr tete carré - ca se peut?

samboct -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 3:09:48 PM)
I think I'm lost here. Alcohol is not magical. It's a drug that reduces inhibitions and slows cognitive processes. I see two possibilities. 1) Alcohol made a sex partner who was previously undesirable appear desirable due to lowered inhibitions- i.e. the person wanted to have sex, but was too uptight to admit it when sober. AKA- the well known beer goggle effect. No rape here. 2) Alcohol made the person unable to resist effectively, but force was still required for disrobing and penetration- i.e. it wasn't consensual sex- it just took less effort than rape when sober. This falls under rape since it involved violence. Good luck figuring out which is which in the real world. If there's that much alcohol involved- I don't see a credible witness. Sam

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 3:31:59 PM)
This appeared on the back of t-shirts being sold in Fort Lauderdale over Spring Break: [image]http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/beershirt.jpg[/image]

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 3:36:39 PM)
I posted this before but here it is again: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124272157 What Lisak found was that students who commit rape on a college campus are pretty much like those rapists in prison. In both groups, many are serial rapists. On college campuses, repeat predators account for 9 out of every 10 rapes. And these offenders on campuses — just like men in prison for rape — look for the most vulnerable women. Lisak says that on a college campus, the women most likely to be sexually assaulted are freshmen. "It's quite well-known amongst college administrators that first-year students, freshman women, are particularly at risk for sexual assault," Lisak says. "The predators on campus know that women who are new to campus, they are younger, they're less experienced. They probably have less experience with alcohol, they want to be accepted. They will probably take more risks because they want to be accepted. So for all these reasons, the predators will look particularly for those women." Still, Lisak says these men don't think of themselves as rapists. Usually they know the other student. And they don't use guns or knives. "The basic weapon is alcohol," the psychologist says. "If you can get a victim intoxicated to the point where she's coming in and out of consciousness, or she's unconscious — and that is a very, very common scenario — then why would you need a weapon? Why would you need a knife or a gun?"

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