RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 4:19:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama This appeared on the back of t-shirts being sold in Fort Lauderdale over Spring Break: [image]http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/beershirt.jpg[/image] Spring break in Ft. Lauderdale isn't that much different than Bike Week in Daytona. That t-shirt isn't condoning rape, it is making fun of "Girls Gone Wild" because those girls willingly drink the alcohol, willingly flash their tits and willingly sleep with random guys. Are they ridiculously drunk while doing so? No doubt. But I will be damned if I will find it reasonable to absolve them of personal responsibility for their own actions.

angelikaJ -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 6:44:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Angelika- the report does go into the relationships and the number of rapists victims have. As noted before, roughly half (or more) of female victims were raped prior to age 18 by someone they knew. This implies a family member. As such, it's hard to conceive of how family members could be serial rapists with large numbers of victims. I think there may be a vast gulf in between the people being reported as rapists in this study, and rapists in the general prison population. Right now, I'd be very interested in someone in the field's analysis of how to reconcile those seemingly disparate facts and whether people taking part in this study would actually have considered themselves raped- or whether that was a definition that the survey supplied. Also- please accept my respect as someone who has the strength to come forward and share your experiences from a trying ordeal. Sam You are taking an assumption and presenting it as fact because it seems obvious to you. It could be a family member, an uncle perhaps who had a special relationship with all of his nieces. It could be a neighbor... and again over the years he has preyed upon young girls. It could be a minister or priest or a youth group leader... and all of them have multiple opportunities to find girls or teens or boys in the age ranges they prefer. If it is the father or stepfather, then it will likely be all the girls in the household. So, these facts are not as disparate as you thought. Many rapes are not reported. Rapists tend to rape until they get caught. Have you actually looked at the sexual offender list for your area? Perhaps that will remind you that the statistics have a face... .

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:02:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Kalikshama- I'll go with rape needs the threat of physical violence. Not relevant whether or not you know the person- also irrelevant number of dates etc. Ah so drugging someone, which isnt violence, doesnt constitute as rape. Rape is sex without consent. Drugs remove the ability to make consent. No contract between two entities will hold up in any court if the consent was obtained through coercion. Consent null and void. No consent, then its rape. Not necessarily. If two people are high on marijuana and have sex, calling it rape will prove difficult. If a guy slips a roofie in a girl's drink, then she is unable to consent. Same thing with drinking alcohol. If the girl is willingly imbibing, there is no "coercion." There is also no consent. If I sign a contract and you knew I was drunk when I signed it, would it still be valid?

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:05:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Ya. Or.......how about one truth. That A LOT of women, especially young women, are too ashamed or scared to tell ANYONE they were raped. Especially if it was by someone they know. Imagine being a freshman at college, trying to fit in, and you get raped, lets say by a frat boy, could be a ball player, track star, science wizard.... why would any woman tell that? The last thing a woman wants it to have the feeling someone is whispering about her, talking about her, pointing fingers.... Its no wonder why they dont report it after seeing whats been posted here.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:08:18 PM)
quote: Aside from the fact that I personally do not accept the "I was drunk so didn't know what I was doing." from EITHER PARTY, male or female. My POINT in my previous statement was that for ME, it's a huge gray area. The mere fact that anyone is drunk or not isn't the issue for me. If a person is victimizing another, I don't care whether either party is intoxicated, the aggressor is still responsible for their behaviour. I also don't support the idea that a woman could consent then use the, "I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing." after she drunkenly consented, to slap a guy with a rape charge. That falls into my philosophy of personal responsibility. So to ME, the lame excuse of...."well I was drunk..." is not an acceptable excuse for poor behaviour from ANYONE when discussing any behavioural issue. Word of wisdom to the guys........don't fuck drunk chicks. Problem solved! I really gotta say here... if a man is that drunk that he doesnt know what he is doing, chances are he wont be hard enough to do it.

outhere69 -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:09:47 PM)
What about the Whiskey Dick(tm)?

barelynangel -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:12:08 PM)
Tazzy, don't compare this to signing a contract -- the contract could very well hold up in court depending on the circumstances. If you want to use that argument it would mean any guy who was intoxicated when he raped a woman shouldn't be held responsible because he was drunk -- slippery slope here and not a good argument lol. The fact of the matter is there are degrees of intoxication and it's very hard in a court of law to prosecute these types of cases because the defense will question and question and question and the issue with criminal law the jury has to believe the verdict beyond a reasonable doubt. The other problem we deal with is intent, did the guy deliberately get her drunk so that she was incapable of being clear on consent or was he simply enjoying the evening and she wasn't clear on her yes or no. Which is now boys are being taught if it isn't yes, it means no. angel

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:24:03 PM)
quote: These guys definitely need a lesson in proper civility. Presuming that this is nothing more than some “guy talk” getting out of hand, we should not, nor should we want to, ruin their lives over this but some sanctions need to be applied. Banning the Fraternity and/or expelling the students (or even jailing them for cripes sake) seems a bit over the top. A suspension of both seems more in order and perhaps some community service (say… scrubbing the toilets at the local Rape Crisis Center perhaps?). Something, in other words, that will teach them that what may be funny to them, is not necessarily funny to others and that they need to learn the valuable skill of discretion… if not out of genuine compassion, then out of a desire not to scrub toilets. Up until here, I completely agree with your post. This section... Im not disagreeing with you, per se. The Frat house is closed, the charter faces being pulled. The cops are investigating, and I have not heard any word about expulsion or suspension of the students themselves. Having said that, one of the frat boys plead guilty to voyeurism last month. It didnt happen on campus, or with a college student, for that I am quite sure he is thankful. http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20111216/NEWS02/111216011/1007/NEWS02/Sig-Ep-member-admits-secretly-taping-woman-Stowe-locker-room The victim was 30. Imagine the fall out had it been one of the girls on the list. quote: So what about the situation where the woman changes her mind mid coitus? First of all, I must ask, how often does this come up? I’m sure it has happened but I doubt that it is all that common. Generally speaking, if you’ve convinced a woman to take off her clothes and spread her legs for you, she’s probably going to see it through to the end. Still, when the situation does come up, what are the man’s responsibilities in the matter? I know that I’m perfectly capable of stopping mid coitus (it sucks, but I can do it). There have been times that I have had to (do you smell something burning? Holy shit! The pot roast is burning!). Hell, I’ve heard that President Clinton took some important calls while Monica was busy slurping away. In all fairness, ladies, just as a car needs some distance to stop, a two or three thrusts stopping distance would be fair, particularly if we are near our peak. How often does this happen? I can only speak for myself... never. Have women made false allegations of rape? Yes... its a huge part of the history... one that is getting extremely narrow as women are now facing charges for filing false reports.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:31:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Tazzy, don't compare this to signing a contract -- the contract could very well hold up in court depending on the circumstances. If you want to use that argument it would mean any guy who was intoxicated when he raped a woman shouldn't be held responsible because he was drunk -- slippery slope here and not a good argument lol. The fact of the matter is there are degrees of intoxication and it's very hard in a court of law to prosecute these types of cases because the defense will question and question and question and the issue with criminal law the jury has to believe the verdict beyond a reasonable doubt. The other problem we deal with is intent, did the guy deliberately get her drunk so that she was incapable of being clear on consent or was he simply enjoying the evening and she wasn't clear on her yes or no. Which is now boys are being taught if it isn't yes, it means no. angel you do have a point and I defer to your wisdom. [:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 7:36:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: outhere69 What about the Whiskey Dick(tm)? Isnt that when a man drinks so much he cant get a hard on? I have been at various levels of drunkenness. I have seen men at various levels. For a man not to realize a woman is too drunk to consent to sex, he would have to be far too drunk to get it up. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Whiskey+dick The dictionary lists it as ED.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 8:44:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl There is also no consent. If I sign a contract and you knew I was drunk when I signed it, would it still be valid? My question is more to the idea that both people are drunk when they write the contract. But again, I'm not going to say that a guy who has sex with a girl who is drunk has raped her, just because she was drunk. He may be guilty of being a scumbag, but unless that girl is passed out, says no, or is obviously too drunk to say no, it just isn't rape. Can you honestly say that a girl who is drunk and being promiscuous, who comes on to the guy, who doesn't say no, and who the next day, wakes up with a hangover and realizes she had sex with some strange guy she picked up at a club was raped? Honestly, regardless of whatever links kali posts, whenever a girl comes claims she was raped, the next day (or later) and says it happened because she was drinking (not someone gave her something she was unaware of) and the events of the night are fuzzy, I'm going to question whether or not she was telling the truth or whether it was next day regret and embarassment over her actions. I realize this is a hot button topic for a great number of women here. I've actually never seen an environment that wasn't a support group where so many women claim to have been raped in their past, and honestly? When they tell the stories, a lot of them, by their own words and recounting of what happened, weren't actually raped. They put themselves in a position and followed through with something and later regret it. On this site alone, there is a higher percentage of the "next day regret" than indicated in kali's links. Does that statement open me up to major flaming? Of course it does. But think about this....how many "rape" stories here involve women who meet up with strangers for a "play session" and follow through even though it wasn't going as planned, but look back and say, "it was rape?" If you think about that question, if you search other links for it, you will see my point. I wouldn't post those links here, I've got no interest in calling someone out. I don't deny that date rape does happen. Young women have been drugged, taken advantage of while passed out, forced and coerced by fear into sex. But if that coercion involves a guy saying things like "prove you love me," or any of the other list of excuses guys have and girls willingly give in to, she wasn't raped. She may be ashamed of letting a guy get the best of her, but it doesn't qualify as rape and is an insult to those who were raped. And be clear, this is date rape I am talking about specifically, not teenagers who were molested by family members or other people in "authority," nor does it include women who were raped by strangers. I am talking about date rape only. Although I will say that as I just mentioned, young girls who are molested are definately raped, however, I put that in a different category entirely.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/19/2011 11:06:27 PM)
quote: EmilyRocks quote: Frosted Flake I am sorry I wasn't able to do a better job for you ladies. Given your inherent male chauvinism, that really isn't a surprise. Not intending to detract from the ongoing, or to whine, I find myself fingering the HIDE key. This is probably not fair or useful. Better might be ask if there is something for me to learn about my inherent chauvinism. Character flaws, by nature, are much easier to see in others. Thanks for any comment. FF

tiggerspoohbear -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 5:02:20 AM)
Would someone please explain to me why it hasn't come up yet that rape is not a sexual act but one of hatred and rage? Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 6:26:57 AM)
quote: Can you honestly say that a girl who is drunk and being promiscuous, who comes on to the guy, who doesn't say no, and who the next day, wakes up with a hangover and realizes she had sex with some strange guy she picked up at a club was raped? Honestly, regardless of whatever links kali posts, whenever a girl comes claims she was raped, the next day (or later) and says it happened because she was drinking (not someone gave her something she was unaware of) and the events of the night are fuzzy, I'm going to question whether or not she was telling the truth or whether it was next day regret and embarassment over her actions. No one is equating next day regret with rape but you and Samboct.

barelynangel -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 6:30:13 AM)
Not all rape is about hatred and rage.... many times it is simply about power, which is not hatred and rage. On other levels its about control, which is also not about hatred and rage. And it has been brought up. angel

kalikshama -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 7:10:39 AM)
quote: But think about this....how many "rape" stories here involve women who meet up with strangers for a "play session" and follow through even though it wasn't going as planned, but look back and say, "it was rape?" If you are referring to my own bad experience story, do not equate my words "feeling like a rape victim in my ripped shirt" with me considering myself to have been raped.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 7:28:44 AM)
quote: My question is more to the idea that both people are drunk when they write the contract. But again, I'm not going to say that a guy who has sex with a girl who is drunk has raped her, just because she was drunk. He may be guilty of being a scumbag, but unless that girl is passed out, says no, or is obviously too drunk to say no, it just isn't rape. Can you honestly say that a girl who is drunk and being promiscuous, who comes on to the guy, who doesn't say no, and who the next day, wakes up with a hangover and realizes she had sex with some strange guy she picked up at a club was raped? Oh no no no. Fucker's remorse has no place in the bedroom. I am speaking of women who are falling down drunk, obviously not about to walk, let alone fuck. But do we now start putting a breathalyzer into every bedroom? But neither is the woman you describe suddenly realizing it the next morning. The more I think about all this.... and do not mistake what I am going to say as a defense for the spoiled brats who decided to terrorize women, regardless of how unwittingly,... When are we, as a society, going to stop coddling our youth and hold them accountable for their actions? I am friends with security guards who work at the dorms on the Pitt campus and they tell me about the drunk girls... falling down, puking in the halls, lost clothes are the clubs. Typically they go out in a group, then end up staggering in in smaller groups. quote: Honestly, regardless of whatever links kali posts, whenever a girl comes claims she was raped, the next day (or later) and says it happened because she was drinking (not someone gave her something she was unaware of) and the events of the night are fuzzy, I'm going to question whether or not she was telling the truth or whether it was next day regret and embarassment over her actions. Could be someone gave her something in the drink. When my lips go numb, Im done. That wasnt always the case. Oh yeah, I was one of those falling down drunk girls... but I also had four brothers, living in a small town, where they were bouncers at the club I always went too. I also partied with close friends and one of us always remained sober. I just find the current attitude among women to be one entitlement. Yes, its great we have these laws and no means no. Its also stupid that any woman believes that alone is enough to keep her safe. Worse case scenario not ending in death would be ending up in a porn video, infected with an STD, potentially surgery to fix any repairs the night before may have caused by being used by god only knows how many men, maybe even pregnant. I know some may have just gotten turned on by reading that... please... this isnt about kink. Its about self-accountability. Yes, a woman shouldnt have to worry about rape when drunk... but it happens. Now, I want to bring this back on track. This thread isnt about drunk women.... this isnt about date rape. This is about a group of young men who decided that it would be funny to start a list of "women I would love to rape". Im still trying to figure out when violence became funny.

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 7:31:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear Would someone please explain to me why it hasn't come up yet that rape is not a sexual act but one of hatred and rage? Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with sex. Rape is about many things. Anger, violence, power, control, ego, revenge.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 7:49:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I am speaking of women who are falling down drunk, obviously not about to walk, let alone fuck. But do we now start putting a breathalyzer into every bedroom? ... I am friends with security guards who work at the dorms on the Pitt campus and they tell me about the drunk girls... falling down, puking in the halls, lost clothes are the clubs. Typically they go out in a group, then end up staggering in in smaller groups. ... Now, I want to bring this back on track. This thread isnt about drunk women.... this isnt about date rape. This is about a group of young men who decided that it would be funny to start a list of "women I would love to rape". Im still trying to figure out when violence became funny. Your first point is well taken but, let's remember that the law defines "impaired" as something a lot less than a person who's having trouble walking. At my weight, I am "impaired" - according to my state - after two drinks in the space of an hour. While you *might* get me to agree that most people lose some reflex ability at .08% alcohol in their blood, few would lose cognitive function. The ladies you describe are well past what the law deems "impaired" and you're absolutely right; in that kind of case, *any* man that would engage in sex with her is certainly some kind of "scavanger" and probably guilty of rape. The part I highlighted in red is the meat and bones of the issue and that list is *not* funny ... to me. I'm also not a 19 year old college student. Nor is it violence. I'm sorry but it just doesn't fit the definition. They're words - awful, hateful words that should never be turned into action but words, none the less. In the interest of "guilty until proven innocent", we have to be very careful about how we throw accusations around. These young men are not rapists. If you want to tell me that, based upon their words, they're potential rapists, I will agree. And every one is a potential thief and potential drunk driver, etc. I don't think we want to start criminalizing peoples' potential to sink to a lowest common denominator. I agree that they deserve some kind of punishment but not in a court of law. They need to be identified for the entire campus population to see. They need to feel the sting of people whispering behind their backs as they pass or the full-on verbal assault that some might mete out. They need for their parents to know what "Little Johnny" finds amusing and see how amusing mom and dad find it to be. Peace and comfort, Michael

tazzygirl -> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus (12/20/2011 8:03:09 AM)
quote: The part I highlighted in red is the meat and bones of the issue and that list is not funny ... to me. I'm also not a 19 year old college student. Nor is it violence. I'm sorry but it just doesn't fit the definition. They're words - awful, hateful words that should never be turned into action but words, none the less. In the interest of "guilty until proven innocent", we have to be very careful about how we throw accusations around. These young men are not rapists. If you want to tell me that, based upon their words, they're potential rapists, I will agree. And every one is a potential thief and potential drunk driver, etc. I don't think we want to start criminalizing peoples' potential to sink to a lowest common denominator. Rape, as many have stated, is at its core considered a crime of violence and anger. quote: Im still trying to figure out when violence became funny. By this I meant a group of people who thought making a list of women they would like to rape as being funny. Since rape is often associated with violence, they are saying that this act of violence is funny. Remember, violence doesnt have to be physical. Please, do show me where I said they were rapists. I dont believe I have seen anyone on these boards accuse these boys of committing the act. quote: I agree that they deserve some kind of punishment but not in a court of law. Why not in a court of law? What makes them above the law if a decision is reached that they did in fact break the law? I havent heard anyone demanding they be jailed. so Im curious as to why this would even come up.

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