RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq after we leave.

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RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 7:52:36 AM

Moonhead

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It isn't actually: even parted from the gold standard, it still bears some vague resemblance to gnp, and that's been a one way flow into Iraq since '03.
Still, at least you got a bit more out of the investment than we did...

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Post #: 21

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 7:56:00 AM

Miserlou

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and i suppose we can just have more kids to replace the tens of thousands who died.

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Post #: 22

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 8:03:34 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miserlou

and i suppose we can just have more kids to replace the tens of thousands who died.

i was an illegal war and based on lies by the govt. I dont agree with the invasion of iraq or the action in libya either.. but then its not up to me what the US govt does... that is up to americans..

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Post #: 23

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 8:48:12 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It is the Iraqi government dealing with Iran and America will gain nothing.

Sure you will: another war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

pffffft.. no big deal.. the US govt can print more money.. its just paper and a little ink, after all..

Doesn't even have to be the US gov't, so long as it's $100 bills, a.k.a. Monopoly Money.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 24

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 9:07:49 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miserlou

and i suppose we can just have more kids to replace the tens of thousands who died.

I realize it's a touchy subject, so let me simply be clear that criticisms of the regime do not imply a lack of awareness of the human tragedy involved, nor are we ignorant of the sacrifices made by servicemen on all sides in these conflicts. Criticizing the regime that sent them off in the first place is part of making the losses count for something.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Miserlou)

Post #: 25

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 9:23:25 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

The bad news - it's Iran.

Anytime this comes up, it will be shouted down with "Oh, so we should sit around the campfire and sing Kubaya with our enemies?!"

But the reality is that, on our end, we've done our best to make an enemy of Iran (yes, Iran certainty did their part), and in closing off all avenues of reconciliation, leave them the option of fighting us. At the top of the problem list here is a nuclear Iran--and they *will* develop nuclear weapons. At some point, we will have to work out an option to continued hostility.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 26

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 10:56:03 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Steven, where's the downside?
They'll go to war and kill each other off, we won't have to do anymore "rebuilding or give them anymore "foreign aid" because Iran will be doing that right?
And who cares about "losing" Iraq? Do you plan on vacationing there?
I don't,... not ever!
Let the sunni's and shites slaughter each other and that's one less problem for Israel.

1. An unstable Middle East is bad news. Period.
2. I don't like innocents getting slaughtered.

LOL, Steven, when,.....in the last 50 years has the M.E. ever been "stable?"

As for "innocents" there's no way to fix that unless the innocents are willing to take up arms to defend themselves.
You can have all the "U.N." "resolutions" that you want and they won't do any good.
And what if say,....S.Carolina and Colorado really hated each other and went to war?
Do you think we'd see and foreign countries armys here trying to stop ,.."innocents" from getting slaughtered?
And as for "Iran" there's no reason that Europe and Israel can't handle that by themselves.
As that poem goes in here;..."I don't want to be the leader anymore."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 12/29/2011 11:11:33 AM >

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RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 10:58:07 AM

mnottertail

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Well, they were doing that before we invaded, and they will be picking up where they left off shortly, and it looks like with the arms sales we're doing, we will be picking up where we left off before we invaded.

Same old, only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

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Post #: 28

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 11:03:45 AM

Aswad

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Nuclear weapons aren't a necessity. As was demonstrated by OBL, it is entirely possible to cause more financial damage and greater loss of life with a few kamikaze pilots than the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima. Undercover agents can readily prep a country to add a few digits to the casualties and the financial disruption. And that's before you even go into the subject of thermobaric bomblet dispersal, salted bombs and biowarfare agents.

Consider for a moment that killing off all the bees in N. America could come close to destabilizing the biosphere, and that the relevant proteins to do so have been found and targetted with gene therapy (though with the opposite intention, as the bees have been dying out all over the place recently). It doesn't take nuclear to cause a real bit of harm, well beyond what any reasonably sized nuclear weapon (i.e. one not intended to destroy all life) can accomplish.

Iran is perfectly aware that the most effective way to achieve the end result of a nuclear attack will be to fire it directly at Teheran, for all the good it would do them. Saves them a few minutes of anxiety while waiting for some two to five other nations turning the general area of the Middle-East into radioactive glass by doing it themselves. In fact, the closest they'll ever come to a deterrent in that regard is that Israel would be hit by fallout from an attack on Iran, and they are crazy enough to burn the Earth to a cinder out of spite.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 29

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 8:24:56 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Thats not whats happening here though is it. It is kind of stupide to suggest America is selling anything off to the highest bidder.

We can call it whatever we like, but letting the Chinese have Afghanistan sounds like a win/win to me. We get out, and the Chinese get a way to get rid of some of those excess males in their population. It sucks for the Afghans, of course, but when hasn't it sucked for them?

quote:

Except when the oil stops flowing the US and the West will be fucked.

No, Polite, that's when we'll get down to seriously trashing the environment as we collect the oil from shales and sands. Once that tipping point is reached, the whole game changes.

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Post #: 30

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 8:52:05 PM

Musicmystery

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Plus, they can consolidate the heroin trade.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 31

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/29/2011 10:53:01 PM

Miserlou

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over 100,000 americans have died as a result of this war. why are those who planned and executed the situation that lead to those deaths lauded instead of prosecuted?

remember. not all casualties occur in a war zone.

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Misery

and the history books forgot about us

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 32

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 3:23:21 AM

tweakabelle

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Joined: 10/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miserlou

over 100,000 americans have died as a result of this war. why are those who planned and executed the situation that lead to those deaths lauded instead of prosecuted?

remember. not all casualties occur in a war zone.

I could ask the same question about Australian ex-PM Howard who dragged us into Iraq against the clear will of the Australian people. I imagine Brits could pose the same question to Blair.

These people always get away with it don't they? (Unless they're expendable local dictators like Saddam or Noreiga.)

Why?

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Post #: 33

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 6:37:54 AM

tweakabelle

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Just in case you were worried the ME region was suffering a shortage of weapons, the US announced today a sale of $30 billion worth of advanced jet fighters to Saudi Arabia, a country widely acknowledged as the regional standard-bearer for human rights, liberal values, democracy and gender equality:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-arms-sale-to-saudis-sends-message-to-iran-20111230-1pfj3.html

This follows a day or two after the announcement of an $11 billion worth of arms to that other beacon of liberty, Iraq (see posts # 12 & 14)

Just what the region needs wouldn't you agree?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/30/2011 6:43:29 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 7:39:37 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

US to sell Iraq $11 billion of arms, including planes, tanks .............. despite fears of civil war.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/iraqi-arms-deal-stokes-fears-of-civil-war-20111229-1pe9a.html

So it's back to realpolitik.

< Message edited by xssve -- 12/30/2011 7:40:19 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 7:57:00 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Plus, they can consolidate the heroin trade.

Was there any heroin trade out of Iraq before the influx of insurgents needed funding following the country's liberation, now that you've raised that one?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 36

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 7:59:26 AM

mnottertail

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The gist was that China could consolidate the heroin trade by annexing Afghanistan.

Americanisms, you have to be there, or they get you every time.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 37

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 8:09:11 AM

Moonhead

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Seen. I thought he was raising the matter of how the evil insurgents in Iraq were funding themselves.

(To really consolidate the heroin trade, though, China would have to take Pakistan as well, and a fair chunk of south east asia...)

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 38

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 8:20:36 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Plus, they can consolidate the heroin trade.

The Afghan heroin trade has been taking a bit of a hit lately.

It was financing the insurgents, so we started torching it.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 39

RE: The good news - someone will want to stabilize Iraq... - 12/30/2011 3:40:00 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Seen. I thought he was raising the matter of how the evil insurgents in Iraq were funding themselves.

(To really consolidate the heroin trade, though, China would have to take Pakistan as well, and a fair chunk of south east asia...)

And a large part of North London.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 40

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