Why do Prices Keep Rising?

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Real0ne -> Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/29/2011 8:35:06 PM)
21 Evils of Inflation - Prof. Krassimir Petrov http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_SL2tIF6i4&feature=gv thought I would share this with you all. I do not know to what depth this guy ultimately goes and I only listened to the first 10 minutes and he is so bang on. People wonder why there is income disparity and the roots of why this country is in the mess its in, aside from being sold out by the government. This is only one in a series of lectures but its really good! pay particular attention to the parts about "wages", new money etc and who profits etc!

Miserlou -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/29/2011 10:47:30 PM)
B ecause the concept of "enough" has been buried under the mass market concept of "more".

tazzygirl -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/29/2011 11:00:25 PM)
I would agree. And while the money was flowing, so to speak, it was enough. Its when the powers that be realized it wasnt enough and they were headed towards a tail spin and they did nothing to stop it themselves, thats when it all got fucked up.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/29/2011 11:11:55 PM)
Sorry.

DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 2:49:57 AM)
The professor lies on his very first "negative effect." He claims there is no positive or social effects from inflation. If the the money supply never expands, 0% inflation, then no one could ever receive a raise and the number of jobs would be static. If he is that full of shit on his first point the rest is surely not worth listening to.

DarkSteven -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 4:53:33 AM)
Companies are required by the stockholders to get more profit. They can do this by cutting costs (i.e., laying off) or by increasing revenues. Revenues can be increased by increasing market size (not bloody likely for mature industries) or by increasing prices. The ugly part is that the consumers don't have any more money to spend, so the price increases simply mean that they will spend the same money and buy less stuff with it.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 7:46:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Companies are required by the stockholders to get more profit. They can do this by cutting costs (i.e., laying off) or by increasing revenues. Revenues can be increased by increasing market size (not bloody likely for mature industries) or by increasing prices. The ugly part is that the consumers don't have any more money to spend, so the price increases simply mean that they will spend the same money and buy less stuff with it. The problem really rears its ugly face when you realize that the money that you already earned is loses value the second its in your hand. Any options traders in here? Inflation has been and continues to be a bumpy one way street up. The money used to inflate and then deflate and at some point go back to zero. With the creation of the modern day money system that never happens so money you earned last year no longer buys the same amount of goods this year (overall). that and as he said the boys on top get to spend the new inflationary money into the system before the new inflation works its way through the system actually causing the prices to rise. The problem of course for the 99% is when does this money hit them? When prices go up before wages now the 99% is spending pre inflationary money at inflationary costs. Therein lies the real evil and over time why real wealth always favors the wealthy. The higher up that ladder you climb the closer you can get to that inflationary discount the faster you turn profits. Meantime the poor and the middle class and anyone on a wage who does not have the same "leverage" are getting completely ripped off. up and until the creation of the federal reserve and the modern banking system inflation always went back to zero. The biggest problem of course is that this stuff is sort of subtle and takes years of slowly draining your blood like boiling a frog and all off a sudden like today people realize they are living beyond their means even though they live no differently today than they did yesterday!

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 7:55:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I would agree. And while the money was flowing, so to speak, it was enough. Its when the powers that be realized it wasnt enough and they were headed towards a tail spin and they did nothing to stop it themselves, thats when it all got fucked up. if you look at the history of the money in the US, every time inflation hit zero (just by coincidence of course) we had some war that forced us into borrowing money and running the debt up again. which takes us to OWS?

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 8:15:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The professor lies on his very first "negative effect." He claims there is no positive or social effects from inflation. If the the money supply never expands, 0% inflation, then no one could ever receive a raise and the number of jobs would be static. If he is that full of shit on his first point the rest is surely not worth listening to. the prof is 100% correct, in fact I can go quite a bit beyond what he did in its evil effects. The idea of raise is a misnomer, you cannot have more lobs than you have people in the country. Where I can expand on what he said and state that on a macro level economic growth beyond the population head count is a myth and delusion. The stock market and your 401k going up forever and ever another delusion. On the contrary it is easy pickings for the wall street thugs. They know just when to trigger market changes running shorts AGAINST your long positions! Remember you cannot trade your 401k on the short side. If you compare the inflation charts to the dow index they are precisely inverse!!!! Inflation drives the DOW. The only reason you get a raise is to offset what? Inflation! If you compute your wage today and most commodities back to 1776 compensated for inflation you will find that your wage is nearly the same for any given job as it was over 200 years ago price fixing and other anomolies not with standing. Now with regard to economic growth where I do agree that it is in fact "real" is that growth which is directly proportional to population growth. The rest, that is anything beyond that point is nothing more than inflation given attractive labels to sell you what? "snake oil" (while the boys on top and the gubafia get filthy rich off your back)

DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 8:52:51 AM)
You're simply wrong. Take a simple example. In this economy there is 100 dollars and 10 workers. Each one is earns 10 dollars per month and each one spends 10 dollars per month. With everything static there is no need for inflation. However what happens when one of their kids reaches working age and no one dies? Now there are 11 workers competing for the same 100 dollars. So if a job is added then everyone's wages must decline or the money supply must expand which is inflation. The same happens if one of the original 10 workers gets a raise to 11 per month, the extra dolar has to come from somewhere and with no expansion of the money supply it comes from the rest of the economy. In reality with millions of people in the economy and with new people entering the economy at all times and with people wishing to improve their lot it is absolutely unavoidable that low level inflation must occur. Anyone who says a vibrant and expanding economy is a bad thing needs only examine the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically.

farglebargle -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 9:10:34 AM)
That 11th worker isn't a worker until he actually has a gig. Turn 'unemployment' on it's head and think of it as 'Corporate Wellness', where a "Well" corporation, is expanding, growing, healthy. And when a company is growing, they're hiring people. When a company is sick, they're not. Unemployment isn't an indicator of the economy. It's an indicator of the success ( or failure ) of the capitalists to grow healthy companies.. The capitalists are doing a pretty shitty job these days.

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 9:12:25 AM)
there is only so much honey in the honey pot. so what they are calling economic growth is really economic redistribution. This constant shuffling gives the false impression to one group that they are doing well while subtracting from another group who screams for the government to fix it. The whole system as it is designed is frankly contrary to public best interest and should rightfully be considered an attack on the common people and their "rightful" "governments". Since my threads are typically informative rather than lefty righty lets beat each other up-a-tive this probably wont get much of a showing so I will simply say it now. Its subtle so its not apparent to most, but every time as he said that they inject more money into the economy everything that can be sold and all wages now need to be adjusted. It then creates fights between people at large, and creates job security for the lying gubafia. There will always be a disparity that is "created" by the people controlling the money. They make the problem and of course they through "their" gubafia create the illusion of fixing the problem for you. When in fact all they are really doing is shifting it to another sector or group. That is the beauty of mobocracies! Especially if you keep them small enough that an uprising will never occur. Its exactly like the auto repair man putting something on your car each time that will break it in a different place so you are never the wiser that it is in fact the repair man that is breaking your car so he can fix it. Now add to that the "business" of politics and all the money to be siphoned there, and so forth and so on, basically its a nationwide and now fast becoming a world wide RICO! LOL Politiicans jump in to the mix under the pretense of fixing, they cant fix it and all they can do is shift it and redistribute from one group to the next always screwing one group in favor of another. and what does that do? It creates a population that winds up doing this because they simply do not teach the big picture in most schools! [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/republican_vs_democrat-667.gif[/image] What possible good over the long run can that have on an economy or the people? It ruins the economy and destroys the people! They spend their lives hating the other party and chasing "ghosts" through their mob vote trying to force more money into their pocket and it will only be temporary at best! It feeds, maintains and worse "grows" the power and financial structure and the monetary system and creates and protects their job security for those who are nothing more than leaches because of this constant adjustment that needs to be made as a result of the inflation they created through the use of "interest" manipulation and the way commercial laws are construed. When there was gold and silver as specie for money, that is the important part of that system is that it was your property! You owned it! There was no further attachment or interest in it by the government. (from this respect) The more it was hoarded the more value your silver had! So people would sell it off driving inflation back down to zero. They could not simply "expand it", once against that brick wall of there aint more it had no choice but to correct. The specie system forced a correction while the number on a borrowed piece of paper system, rather than forcing a correction has the exact opposite effect since all they need to do is continually balloon and expand it into hyperinflation and the complete destruction of the nation, its wealth and economy. Common people did not need to understand the complexities of commerce or be a world renowned day trader to "get it". Of course its not hard to design situations that force a perfect and prosperous monetary system of the edge to wind up with what we have now and claim the old way was wrong when in fact we had "real" protection with the pains of specie money and NO PROTECTION with IOU's on paper. So if you got pissed at the economy since it was your property you could melt it make something and sell it to another country. Today the government has an interest in THEIR money that you are BORROWING to use as a common means of exchange. You pay taxes on every transaction of that money! Think about it! Worse it has no value at all so you cant do ANYTHING with it but sell it back into their system at their rates of pay for some conversion and so forth and so on. and if we increase our economy then we are creating a decreasing economy somewhere else either state side or somewhere in the world. There is only so much money in the honey pot. That is to put it in perspective. This story simply goes on and on and on. Its a major contributor as to why the government will never get anything done to anyones satisfaction except for the very top tier!

Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 9:41:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You're simply wrong. Take a simple example. In this economy there is 100 dollars and 10 workers. Each one is earns 10 dollars per month and each one spends 10 dollars per month. With everything static there is no need for inflation. However what happens when one of their kids reaches working age and no one dies? Now there are 11 workers competing for the same 100 dollars. So if a job is added then everyone's wages must decline or the money supply must expand which is inflation. The same happens if one of the original 10 workers gets a raise to 11 per month, the extra dolar has to come from somewhere and with no expansion of the money supply it comes from the rest of the economy. In reality with millions of people in the economy and with new people entering the economy at all times and with people wishing to improve their lot it is absolutely unavoidable that low level inflation must occur. Anyone who says a vibrant and expanding economy is a bad thing needs only examine the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically. New people entering the economy is determined by the birth rate. Have you looked at the population growth and compared to the inflation growth? You could not have said that if you did. Often times governments punish people if they want to go into a different economy by forcing them to pay of leave their goods behind, and that takes us into the evils of "state". Everything static is another misnomer. Lets use the closed loop system as an example. silver for instance. More silver is mined every year, hence the new kid entering the economy is covered by that as collateral. Not the pledge and assignment of our children to a life of slave labor to pay down a debt they never created. Hell we never created it either really, the gubafia did, by false promises and voodoo accounting! Entitlements that will eventually be doomed to fail over time as a result of this monetary system!! You do realize that is the definition of slavery right? Its not illegal as people would think. so again you need to take a bit of time and research wages for and prices for goods and you will see they remain relatively constant through out history and all we are really doing with wages and tax increases property value etc etc etc and anything you can think of is merely in the final analysis price adjustment to accommodate "mostly" inflation by design. That is designed into the monetary system, that naughty boys and girls in that top tier can use to make lots of money off of our backs.

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 11:29:30 AM)
quote: the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically The money supply did not shrink. Velocity did, as a result of tight credit and low investment. In fact, increasing the money supply was an attempt to encourage velocity.

vincentML -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 11:41:33 AM)
quote: New people entering the economy is determined by the birth rate. Have you looked at the population growth and compared to the inflation growth? You could not have said that if you did. Two other factors to consider: birth rate plus immigration; new industries [the auto worker replaced the blacksmith, electronic calculators replaced sliderules, the printed circuit board replaced electronic tubes and transistors] How many commercial airline pilots were there in 1903? New industries, new skills, new jobs. New money is not the only driver. A more dynamic framework is at work. See "Creative Destruction."

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 11:43:17 AM)
If people really are looking for a cause of inflation, look no further than fuel prices. It impacts all goods, and agriculture doubly so. It will also continue to rise (on average over time), despite what nutso or dishonest candidates may promise (and regardless of domestic drilling).

DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 11:52:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically The money supply did not shrink. Velocity did, as a result of tight credit and low investment. In fact, increasing the money supply was an attempt to encourage velocity. Actually when all those derivatives and CDS went belly up and all those people got foreclosed the money supply definitely shrank. Money does not equal currency.

DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 11:56:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You're simply wrong. Take a simple example. In this economy there is 100 dollars and 10 workers. Each one is earns 10 dollars per month and each one spends 10 dollars per month. With everything static there is no need for inflation. However what happens when one of their kids reaches working age and no one dies? Now there are 11 workers competing for the same 100 dollars. So if a job is added then everyone's wages must decline or the money supply must expand which is inflation. The same happens if one of the original 10 workers gets a raise to 11 per month, the extra dolar has to come from somewhere and with no expansion of the money supply it comes from the rest of the economy. In reality with millions of people in the economy and with new people entering the economy at all times and with people wishing to improve their lot it is absolutely unavoidable that low level inflation must occur. Anyone who says a vibrant and expanding economy is a bad thing needs only examine the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically. New people entering the economy is determined by the birth rate. Have you looked at the population growth and compared to the inflation growth? You could not have said that if you did. Often times governments punish people if they want to go into a different economy by forcing them to pay of leave their goods behind, and that takes us into the evils of "state". Everything static is another misnomer. Lets use the closed loop system as an example. silver for instance. More silver is mined every year, hence the new kid entering the economy is covered by that as collateral. Not the pledge and assignment of our children to a life of slave labor to pay down a debt they never created. Hell we never created it either really, the gubafia did, by false promises and voodoo accounting! Entitlements that will eventually be doomed to fail over time as a result of this monetary system!! You do realize that is the definition of slavery right? Its not illegal as people would think. so again you need to take a bit of time and research wages for and prices for goods and you will see they remain relatively constant through out history and all we are really doing with wages and tax increases property value etc etc etc and anything you can think of is merely in the final analysis price adjustment to accommodate "mostly" inflation by design. That is designed into the monetary system, that naughty boys and girls in that top tier can use to make lots of money off of our backs. What does any of that have to do with what I wrote? The only remotely on topic part is the question about the birth rate and that shows your staggering lack of knowledge. The economy is simply too big and too complicated to ever match anything else exactly. But yes the growth rate of the population (about 3% per year last I checked) is very roughly the same as the inflation rate has been most of the time. You still need to answer the basic question and stop using words you don't understand. How can an economy function if the money supply is static?

Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 12:06:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically The money supply did not shrink. Velocity did, as a result of tight credit and low investment. In fact, increasing the money supply was an attempt to encourage velocity. Actually when all those derivatives and CDS went belly up and all those people got foreclosed the money supply definitely shrank. Money does not equal currency. Yes, money doesn't equal currency. No, the money supply did not shrink. However, loans are down.

DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (12/30/2011 2:10:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: the reality of the last few years where the money supply shrunk drastically The money supply did not shrink. Velocity did, as a result of tight credit and low investment. In fact, increasing the money supply was an attempt to encourage velocity. Actually when all those derivatives and CDS went belly up and all those people got foreclosed the money supply definitely shrank. Money does not equal currency. Yes, money doesn't equal currency. No, the money supply did not shrink. However, loans are down. That's M2 not M3. M3 is the appropriate measure for the total money supply not just that in circulation. M3 is where the big institutions', that lost trillions in 2008, money is measured.

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