RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:03:59 PM)

That is how much your money is actually worth and it is measured in buying power...


I cost the above. 


And I value your yours as well, MM. It's nearly an intrinsic thing, unlike say; used toilet paper which is intrinsically valueless.   So, rather than us being confused about this, I am sure R0 has a formula for value.  He just can't give it to us until he discusses the abacus, and babylonian systems of weighing gold.  You gotta have the backround to understand value, which means you have to accept a whole lot of non sequiturs as premises on the way to getting the conclusion absolutely wrong.  



Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:05:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There can be no formula for this 'VALUE'  in economics, in the way you have it.  Anyone who says that such a thing is

What is the VALUE of our economy?  What you gonna buy with it?  How do you equate that to another countries VALUE?   American houses and German houses are apples and oranges.  

So, we can buy two ears of american corn, and one russian, they can buy one ear of american corn and two russian...  what is the VALUE formulae?

V = ???? 

cuz this 'VALUE' has nothing to do with yesterday or tomorrow.  The VALUE in the sense you are doing everything but getting at has to do with this and only this:

What is the value of this house?   Whatever anyone would pay for it.

(thats the sum total of it) 




why not?

I showed how the chart would look


Investopedia - What is Monetary Inflation?



[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/SDPM.png[/image]






Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:06:56 PM)

And yet again, you are arguing that the sun is hot.

*yawn*



mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:07:28 PM)

that is a chart of meaningless asswipe, it shows not one fucking thing.

now, what is the formula? recite it for us in the form of a formula...

V= (miracle occurs here)

We dont need a long drawn out fucking bunch of misleading graphs and absolutely incorrect tinfoiling pedantics.

Give us the goddamn formula, right here and bare naked, lets see if it stands up to the garish light of reason. 



Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:12:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And yet again, you are arguing that the sun is hot.

*yawn*


no you were going to tell us how Q = Value remember



mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:14:00 PM)

No, you were gonna tell us how it wasn't, remember? 



Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:22:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

that is a chart of meaningless asswipe, it shows not one fucking thing.

now, what is the formula? recite it for us in the form of a formula...

V= (miracle occurs here)

We dont need a long drawn out fucking bunch of misleading graphs and absolutely incorrect tinfoiling pedantics.

Give us the goddamn formula, right here and bare naked, lets see if it stands up to the garish light of reason. 


really its fairly simple, if you want value of your money just invert the compound interst chart.  lol


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/power-of-compound-interest-lg.jpg[/image]

thats a compound interest chart


and it looks strangely exactly like the inflation chart


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/Cumulative_Inflation_by_Decade_sm.jpg[/image]



which strangely looks just like the money supply


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/Currency_component_of_the_US_money_.gif[/image]


which strangely if inverted would look just like the value of our money.

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/USD_Graph.jpg[/image]


now if I took 1/2 your money over 10 years would you be pissed?




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:28:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, you were gonna tell us how it wasn't, remember? 



lol stop running interference let him talk for himself!  He is the one says Q = Value let him shw his work or lack thereof.



Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:32:46 PM)

now when you look at the compound interest and see what that lousy few percent can do over time, why do we have money that never pays off the interest?  

I figger that its gotta be some fluke in the system no?

infinite exponential interest?  That we can never pay off.

Whats the solution to constantly rising inflation which causes the constantly rising prices as a result of constant devaluation of our money?

How long before we go sub 1 cent or are we already?

Where is MM's equations for that?  yours maybe?







Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:40:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And yet again, you are arguing that the sun is hot.

*yawn*


no you were going to tell us how Q = Value remember


Like I said. Picking an argument so you can rail about what's obvious.

Q is the actual goods. Now, if you want to argue that goods have no value, have fun. Buddha argued all is illusion, so perhaps you're right. If you want to argue that inflation lowers purchasing power, yup, sure does. If you want to point out that inflation accumulates, yup, sure does.

Where this Value nonsense comes from, I can't imagine. Not from what I posted.

But nonetheless, yes, I look to actual goods in making business/personal decisions, not the numbers attached to them as if those numbers were objective or fixed. Numbers are imaginary. Goods are tangible (including services in the sense that I can use them in the here and now). That's what I go by. That's how I determine value.

I also determine value by income/earning streams, but that's outside of this context.



Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 4:46:45 PM)

If numbers are imaginary you go out and buy 50 pounds of gold and I will match its weight in paper dollar bills for it.  

so obviously you do not have any investments then since you do not worry about value. 

The here and now works fine if you are pumping gas or flipping product in a week which must be what you are doing to talk so silly.



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 5:00:53 PM)

See, these would be the circles I referenced earlier.

You just pointed out the problem with numbers yourself. 50 does not equal 50, as you noted. Numbers are useful, but can create the illusion of data and objectivity, as in your example.

You obviously have little idea about investments. I have no investments in monetary instruments. I do have substantial investments in real estate and businesses. These have value, currently and as earning assets.

Again, you want to sing about monetary devaluation, and that's not in question. You just want to argue anyway.






Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 5:19:08 PM)

no not true

I pointed out the problem with equality.

you can use numbers or you can use material whatever.

while they were both 50 pounds the gold had more VALUE.

I am not sure why you are so hung up on downplaying the importance of inflation with respect to how we are being robbed, and I have news for you that property values do not keep up with inflation and are slowly losing ground as well.

There are no circles about it.  Value is a one way street DOWN, hence PRICES are on a one way street up and the slope of that curve is getting very steep, we now are losing 1/2 of our investments in 10 years and next 8 then 6 then 4 unless something is done.

It is unrecoverable.

Now if by businesses you mean ownership that is one thing if you mean stock your ass is getting sandpaperd like everyone else who has a x01k, got a retirement nest?  sand papered!   You lost 1/2 since 2001.  

It does not appear you really understand this as well as you might think.


ok now say you got 250 in soft assets, why would you want to lose 1/2 of it in each cycle?  Inflation since 2001 lopped 125 right off the top.  Its non recoverable and its robbery.

they steal 1/2 of what you made every business cycle.  

So you are ok with that or you simply do not want to look at it?






.



Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 5:38:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

V= (miracle occurs here)



that should be obvious if you want to shoot from the hip.

gold was set at 20 bucks per ounce.

so while this is not as accurate and the 4 line version simply take 20/gold price will give you a hip shot value of the dollar






Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 7:16:09 PM)

quote:

I am not sure why you are so hung up on downplaying the importance of inflation


I have multiple times said that's not in question.

Why are you so unhappy about accepting that we agree on that point?

If you're looking for drama about it, I don't do drama about economics. I just use the information to make informed decisions.



InvisibleBlack -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 8:03:40 PM)

Hey MM! Good to see you posting again.

I came to the dance late and, forgive me, just don't feel like going through eight pages of charts and graphs ... what exactly is this debate revolving around?



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 8:09:58 PM)

quote:

what exactly is this debate revolving around?


THAT is an excellent question.

It's a moving target.



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/12/2012 8:10:59 PM)

quote:

Hey MM! Good to see you posting again.


TY. Good to see you too!



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