RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:14:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

those are not federal reserve statistics.

I know how to add and subtract, and I am aware of time flowing from past to present, not the other way around.

As Nixon signed the law that took us off the gold standard (thereby deflating money 100% (not in your chart)) he made the famous statement (which I have repeatedly quoted out here):

We're ALL Kenyesians now.  

(he also did some other real dirty shit, like remove the USPS from the federal budget, and created HMO crap, which led to some real devistating monetary issues that are a bulk of our money troubles today)

He was Mr BorrowandSpend paving the way for St. BorrowandSpend, old wrinklemeat.


There I corrected the chart to include the other 2 inflation maintenance wars.

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/Cumulative_Inflation_by_Decade_sm3.jpg[/image]


wow he deflated the money?  

Its good see that prices have fallen ever since which is a result of deflation.

Thanks for that.








mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:18:47 AM)

The chart is wrong period.  It shows specie backed money abolished in like 1965 or 66....it was and is unchangeably 1971.  I was there.

Uh, it was backed by gold and then backed by nothing.   Its value went from something in 1970, looking at your fucked up meaningless chart, lets call it in the range of 30 to 50 cents of specie, and then went to 0 cents in specie  in 1971 because it was no longer backed by specie......uh, what the fuck do you call that word, isn't that sort of the fuckin definition of deflation?




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:24:07 AM)

a dollar is a unit of measure, it has an assigned value, that value is presumed to have the buying power of one dollar.

That value now has the buying power of 1 cent.

Oh wait Nixon deflated the money so the price of gas is now 4 cents per gallon not 4 dollars per gallon.

Damn I knew I have been paying too much.

yep keyensians LMAO

speak for yourself and MM.  lol




mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:30:31 AM)

I dont know why you think gas is 4 cents a gallon, as you and only you have said here.

So, which side of the mouth are you talking out of?  Nixon did good by taking us off the gold standard in 1971 which your fucked up chart is wrong about, among other things your fucked up chart is wrong about and all conclusions that flow from your fucked up chart are wrong about, or: 




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:35:38 AM)

Ron's rebuttal: "yeh they are wrong!  Just plain wrong damn it!  Wrong I say!  Do you hear me?  Wrong!  Wrong!  Wrong!  There I proved it to you!  Wrong!"

------------------------

my response to rons rebuttal:

Nice one ron!


[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/kool-55162948981.jpg[/image]

since you did not understand the point I fixed it.  See the bold part LOL




mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:38:07 AM)

Well, at least you are honest about that finally, that they are 100% fanciful bullshit.




DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:41:46 AM)

IS he really arguing that inflation/deflation did not occur prior to 1910?




mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:45:03 AM)

Well, if you believe that FDR recalled gold in 1950 as his chart shows, and we started some war in 1960 to secure the inflation model, and Nixon was president in 1966 and some other basic assumptions, I don't see how there could have been inflation before 1910 on that planet.




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:50:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

IS he really arguing that inflation/deflation did not occur prior to 1910?


I am arguing cumulative inflation.

which did not exist prior to the early 1900's







Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:53:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, if you believe that FDR recalled gold in 1950 as his chart shows, and we started some war in 1960 to secure the inflation model, and Nixon was president in 1966 and some other basic assumptions, I don't see how there could have been inflation before 1910 on that planet.


so the only argument you can make is that the arrows are not precisely on the dates of the events?   fuck you are weak




DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 6:57:19 AM)

Bryan's famous "Cross of Gold" speech was in favor of "free coinage of silver" which meant of allowing anyone to exchange uncoined silver for currency at nearly 1 to 1 ratio. This was intended to cause significant price inflation (the US had been in a long period of deflation prior to 1896).

So obviously inflation occured prior to 1910.




mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:01:25 AM)

well, it disavows the cause and effects of that 'cumulative' inflation, as you have stated them.

20 years difference on the recall of gold, a war that never happened and a presidential administration and action that never occurred are not the stuff that cause and effect is made of.

So, simply stated, (if the numbers were correct, now doubtful and cumulative inflation over several decades had any real meaning) then the hockey stick event occurred before the removal of specie tie downs.

So, what does that tell us in and of itself?  Something is rotten in Denmark.





mnottertail -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:03:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

IS he really arguing that inflation/deflation did not occur prior to 1910?


I am arguing cumulative inflation.

which did not exist prior to the early 1900's






Uh, that is blatantly and universally wrong.  And absolutely senseless.




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:04:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Bryan's famous "Cross of Gold" speech was in favor of "free coinage of silver" which meant of allowing anyone to exchange uncoined silver for currency at nearly 1 to 1 ratio. This was intended to cause significant price inflation (the US had been in a long period of deflation prior to 1896).

So obviously inflation occured prior to 1910.


think of a bucket of water.

that is correct.

1 : 1 deflation is the only way you can correct for inflation.

Say balance is when the bucket is 1/2 full and you have a perfect economy.

Then you add more water and inflate the economy.

The only way to get rid of the inflation is to deflate it.

That would be dumping the water out to go back to 1/2 full.

Not inflate it more into infinity as has been done on an accumulative basis.

Inflating it more robs the people and the country of wealth.

I guess you like the increase of 2000% with only 100% wage increase huh?  You dont need or want money apparently?  You do not mind being paid 1000% less for your work than what you should be getting, and then they take even that away with greater inflation up the road!

Really?


The inflation prior to 1910 and up to the point the federal reserve was fuly operational was always "corrected" back to zero such that the buying power was always restored.






Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:09:55 AM)

[image]http://practical-investing.com/img/Inflation_rate_1774-2008.gif[/image]




Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:13:38 AM)

quote:

1 : 1 deflation is the only way you can correct for inflation.


Deflation, however, comes at a cost. Sure, the relative value of the dollar rises. But the economy also slows, making earning those dollars more difficult, through work or investment.

Yes, inflation comes at a cost too. That's why we have a federal agency charged with managing the money supply to ensure adequate liquidity with low inflation.




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:16:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

1 : 1 deflation is the only way you can correct for inflation.


Deflation, however, comes at a cost. Sure, the relative value of the dollar rises. But the economy also slows, making earning those dollars more difficult, through work or investment.

Yes, inflation comes at a cost too. That's why we have a federal agency charged with managing the money supply to ensure adequate liquidity with low inflation.


Its not a cost when you have MO MONEY!  its a gain!

Deflation requires less hours of work for the same money!  YOur benefit not the gubafia's!!!

We now need 2 household income for most people to survive and you did an impasse on the whole inflation issue as always.





DomKen -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:20:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Deflation requires less hours of work for the same money!  YOur benefit not the gubafia's!!!

Until the company you work for shuts down due to the deflation. Deflation is much worse for the economy than the equivalent inflation.

You're confusing issues.

Your beef seems to be that wage inflation has not kept up with price inflation which is true and has nothing to due with monetary policy or using precious metals to back money.




Real0ne -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:21:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

[image]http://practical-investing.com/img/Inflation_rate_1774-2008.gif[/image]





Must you resort to trying to insult everyones intelligence too?


That chart you posted per year adds up to this chart long term:



[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/Cumulative_Inflation_by_Decade_sm.jpg[/image]



Inflation is cumulative and runs with the money supply et al.


which follows this:

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/Currency_component_of_the_US_money_.gif[/image]




The money supply is cumulative when deflation is always less then inflation




[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/fed%20reserve/l_money_supply_short.png[/image]




Posting the percent per year inflation doe not represent the cumulative nature of the beast.

Inflation runs with the money supply and is CUMULATIVE, if you do not understand that perhaps you need to find a topic you are more familiar with?

as you can plainly see it has a long way to go and lots of deflation to correct zero.




You prove what I say even with your chart, IF you know how to read a chart!

Take note that there is literally no correcting deflation as in going negative or below the zero line after 1940/

Its right on your chart if you understand how to read the chart.







MrRodgers -> RE: Why do Prices Keep Rising? (1/3/2012 7:29:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The professor lies on his very first "negative effect." He claims there is no positive or social effects from inflation. If the the money supply never expands, 0% inflation, then no one could ever receive a raise and the number of jobs would be static. If he is that full of shit on his first point the rest is surely not worth listening to.

First of all the so-called 'money supply' is and has been more than enough for earnings and borrowing. When businesses and consumers borrow, that's in increase in their private money supply and is inflationary. That stops or slows tremendously when interest rates go up. Without borrowing we have few homes and cars etc. and the social effects are a middle class...yet $trillions in debt.

What you are saying is what many have said, that means either we print up money or go into debt or ye...both. In order to consume like we have and have all of these things, we needed to do both and we have done just that. $50+ trillion US public & private debt since WWII. This does not count unfunded liabilities. By some estimates since WWII, takes $3 dollars to now buy what $1 did then.

Now see how capitalism works ? Capitalism IS debt...IS made up of borrowers and lenders, a very, very small number of people are out of debt as as mature adults. Nobody from the 60 percentile down has been getting any richer for 30 years unless they got real lucky in the markets or did it the American way...inherited. (you saw it right ? for the 25 year period from 1984 to 2009 family NET worth -.7%, that's MINUS point 7%) IT HAS to be that way to pay expenses, inflation and of course...ever increasing profits. More then me believe that this monetary system will be the downfall of not only capitalism but also of western civilization.

This is the design of the monetary system and the fed. As I've written, 1500% inflation since 1913. Most of which is not built-in 'costs' but not only speculation but borrowing by so-called investors to speculate even more causing fast increases in prices and ever increasing debt.

Adams warned us, Lincoln warned us, but like I've also written, America ignored them, has bet on greed...and lost. Look, just as in defining M1 through M5, one economics prof. from Georgetown Univ. wrote that for M2 - M5, there are 4 categories created to support yet another wild theory about money supply and capitalism. The same could be said about inflation.

How about this cybersluts ? There are two forms of return in western economy. Return on labor and return on capital. Inflation is built-into an economy and the resulting price increases, is the protection and the maintaining of the return on capital at the expense of labor...nothing more.

...and look one chart says I am being way low, 1500% vs 2195% ? I rest my case.




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