RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (Full Version)

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DanaYielding -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 12:39:48 PM)

oh my, you've made my point, what praytell, was it that caused the last warming then?
Human flatulence?




Lucylastic -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 12:40:27 PM)

You have not provided any proof of your statements, so they cannot be considered factual, and just are simply your opinion.




DomKen -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 12:44:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Didnt argue anything of the sort, just more straw man fallacy bs

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're arguing it isn't a good thing when a US manufacturing company develops new products and sells them for a profit?


The link you posted was to a google search for "GE climate change profits" so how is asking if you're arguing against a US company making a profit a straw man? Do you even know what a straw man argument is?




Hotch -> RE: Climate change as religion (1/3/2012 12:44:59 PM)

The climate change topic is a moot point.  The amount of time needed to change course is perilously short, if not already expired.  Mankind is incapable of averting a species defining event.  We are the Titanic, the iceberg has been spotted but it's too late to change the course of the ship even if we all pull the wheel in the same direction (which we are not).  We ran too fast and too cavalier with our new technology to consider or understand the consequence of it's misuse.  All in all, this doesn't really bother me.  Life is evolution, species come and go.  Or bias says intelligence is the pinnacle of evolution, but it looks like we may just end up another evolutionary mistake discarded in the dust bin of the universe... Or I could be wrong [;)]




Hillwilliam -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 12:50:29 PM)

We're not sure what caused the last warming.....or for absolute certainty what is causing this one.

What we do know, however is that the average sea and atmospheric temperatures are warming and at a higher rate.

Temperature change that took centuries at the end of the Wisconsin glaciation (the most recent in N America) is occurring in decades.

You might want to read what I wrote earlier in this thread about our dependence on fossil carbon sources for fuel.

My concerns are more economic than climatological. The lowered atmospheric CO2 is just a bonus to screwing OPEC and the Chinese.

Now, if you wish to discuss science, let us discuss science. If you wish to be snarky, I can't be held responsible for your humiliation.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 12:54:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

oh my, you've made my point, what praytell, was it that caused the last warming then?
Human flatulence?

How can your point be proven if you haven't even said what it is?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 12:57:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

...there's no more "debate." 



Some would like to think so, however...


Dr. Phil Jones - No statistically significant warming for 15 years

From the Daily Mail: “Professor [Phil] Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now - suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon… And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.”

NASA GSS - no sign of global warming in North America

From Strata-sphere.com: “In response to a freedom of information request, NASA’s GISS was required to produce a series of emails, which in turn revealed that (a) NASA admits the current warm period is not historically different from the period around 1921-1950, and (b) that there has been no sign of global warming in North America or the US. How is global warming possible when it is not ‘global’?”

Dr. Phil Jones, Climate Research Unit

From a ClimateGate email: “With their LIA [Little Ice Age] being 1300 -1900 and their MWP [Medieval Warm Period] 800 -1300, there appears (at my quick first reading) no discussion of synchroneity of the cool/warm periods. Even with the instrumental record, the early and late 20th century warming periods are only significant locally at between 10-20% of grid boxes.”

Professor Richard Muller - 70% of measuring stations poorly sited

Reports Ken Haapala (via WattsUpWithThat.com): “Professor Muller presented himself as a former skeptic [to the House National Resources Committee], but he couched his skepticism as questioning the quality of the land-based surface measurements . . . According to him 70% of measuring stations in the US are poorly sited with a possible error of 2 to 5 degrees C. He evaded the real issue: that most skeptics realize that temperatures have risen, but question that human emissions of carbon dioxide are the principal cause of global warming.”

“Muller failed to mention that . . . he questioned the human influence on global warming; that his calculations of temperatures show no warming for the past ten years; that he has suggested that the cause for the pause in warming is a change in ocean oscillations, and that there is a disconnect between land surface data and atmospheric data.”

An admission: Medieval Warm Period at least as warm as today

From Strata-sphere.com: “The real killer is the global temperature itself, which has been cooling since 2000, and not showing any warming since 1995 - according to Dr Phil Jones, previous head of CRU. In addition, Jones admitted there is no data to overturn the long held scientific theory that the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was as warm or warmer than today. Jones admits lack of data in other regions was used by Mann and others to make up the idea the MWP was cooler, but lack of data is not the same thing as proxies showing cooler temps!:

NASA GISS - 10 warmest years spread throughout last century

From Strata-sphere.com: “In fact, NASA GISS is on record noting that the ten warmest years are spread throughout the last century and are all statistically tied for warmest year. Because of the margin of error in global indexes, there is no way to determine which of the following years are warmer than the others.

“For the earlier period these are the warmest years in the top ten: 1921, 1931, 1934, 1938, 1939 - 5 all told. For the latter it is: 1990, 1998, 1999, 2006 - which is 4. And then there is the outlier 1953. These all have a temperature index that is statistically the same - and it proves there is not ‘significant’ warming, which blows the AGW theory right out of the water.”

While consensus scientists are stuck in defense mode, credentialed and respected skeptics around the globe have taken no time out in their efforts to expose the soft underbelly of the alarmist scientific data churned out by manipulated climate models.

Professor Terry Mills - Warming just as likely to be caused by random fluctuations

From the Herald Sun in Australia: “Terry Mills, professor of applied statistics and econometrics at Loughborough University, looked at the same data as the IPCC. He found that the warming trend it reported over the past 30 years or so was just as likely to be due to random fluctuations as to the impacts of greenhouse gases. Mill’s findings are to be published in Climatic Change, an environmental journal.”

John Christy, professor, UAH - Land temperature records unreliable

“The temperature records cannot be relied on as indicators of global change,’ said John Christy, professor of atmospheric science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, a former lead author on the IPCC.

From the Herald Sun: “The doubts of Christy and a number of other researchers focus on the thousands of weather stations around the world, which have been used to collect temperature data over the past 150 years. These stations, they believe, have been seriously compromised by factors such as urbanisation, changes in land use and, in many cases, being moved from site to site . . . .”

Joe D’Aleo and Dr. Don Easterbrook - No link between CO2 and temperature changes

“During the past century, global climates have consisted of two cool periods (1880-1915 and 1945 to 1977) and two warm periods (1915 to 1945 and 1977 to 1998). In 1977, the PDO [Pacific Decadal Oscillation] switched abruptly from its cool mode, where it had been since about 1945, into its warm mode and global climate shifted from cool to warm.

“This rapid switch from cool to warm has become known as “The Great Pacific Climatic Shift” (Figure 1). Atmospheric CO2 showed no unusual changes across this sudden climate shift and was clearly not responsible for it. Similarly, the global warming from ~1915 to ~1945 could not have been caused by increased atmospheric CO2 because that time preceded the rapid rise of CO2, and when CO2 began to increase rapidly after 1945, 30 years of global cooling occurred (1945-1977).”

Only one global warming period in 500 years matches rising CO2
“Only one out of all of the global warming periods in the past 500 years occurred at the same time as rising CO2 (1977–1998). About 96% of the warm periods in the past 500 years could not possibly have been caused by rise of CO2. The inescapable conclusion of this is that CO2 is not the cause of global warming.

Two ocean oscillations drive climate shifts

:The PDO leads the way [in climate shifts] and its effect is later amplified by the AMO [Atlantic Multi-decadal Oscillation). Each time this has occurred in the past century, global temperatures have remained cool for about 30 years. Thus, the current sea surface temperatures not only explain why we have had global cooling for the past 10 years, but also assure that cool temperatures will continue for several more decades.

“The cool phase of the PDO is now entrenched and ‘global warming’ (the term used for warming from 1977 to 1998) is over.”

Dr. Habibullo Abdussamatov, Pulkovo Observatory - Warns of deep temperature drop
From WorldNetDaily: “The earth is no longer threatened by the catastrophic global warming forecast by some scientists; warming passed its peak in 1998 - 2005, while the value of the TSI by July-September of last year had already declined by 0.47 watts per square meter,” Abdussamatov wrote. “Consequently, we should fear a deep temperature drop, but not catastrophic global warming. Humanity must survive the serious economic, social, demographic and political consequences of a global temperature drop, which will directly affect the national interests of almost all countries and more than 80% of the population of the Earth.”

Dr. George Kukla - Changes in orbit responsible for climate change

From Climate Realists.com and Helium.com: “George Kukla, 77, retired professor of paleoclimatology at Columbia University and researcher at the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory responds, “The only thing to worry about global warming is the damage that can be done by worrying. Why are some scientists worried? Perhaps because they feel that to stop worrying may mean to stop being paid.”

“I feel we’re on pretty solid ground in interpreting orbit around the sun as the primary driving force behind Ice Age glaciation,” he says. “The relationship is just too clear and consistent to allow reasonable doubt. It’s either that, or climate drives orbit, and that just doesn’t make sense.”

Earth on the brink of an Ice Age?

Pravda Science Report, via IceAgeNow: “The AGW theory is based on data that is drawn from a ridiculously narrow span of time and it demonstrates a wanton disregard for the ‘big picture’ of long-term climate change. The data from paleoclimatology, including ice cores, sea sediments, geology, paleobotany and zoology, indicate that we are on the verge of entering another Ice Age, and the data also shows that severe and lasting climate change can occur within only a few years.

“While concern over the dubious threat of Anthropogenic Global Warming continues to distract the attention of people throughout the world, the very real threat of the approaching and inevitable Ice Age, which will render large parts of the Northern Hemisphere uninhabitable, is being foolishly ignored.”

Michael Crichton - There is no human-caused global warming

In his book, “State of Fear,” Michael Crichton offers his assessment of the scientific evidence for global warming. His conclusion: There is no human-caused global warming.

Crichton is correct, writes Donald Miller: “Most of the rise in temperature in the 20th century occurred before 1940, before CO2 levels started rising. Temperatures fell 0.3F from 1940 to 1970 while CO2 levels rose, from 310 to 325 ppmv . .  . .”

“The temperature of the planet’s upper atmosphere (which the theory of global warming predicts should warm first), as measured by satellites, beginning in 1979, and weather balloons, has remained unchanged over the last 25 years despite a rise in atmospheric CO2 levels to 370 ppmv [now near 390 ppm].”

Weather Channel founder says global warming science is rigged

Writes Weather Channel founder John Coleman: “Any person who spends a decade at a university obtaining a PHD in Meteorology and becomes a research scientist, more likely than not, becomes a part of that single minded culture . . . These scientists know that if they do research and results are in no way alarming, their research will gather dust on the shelf and their research careers will languish.

“But if they do research that sounds alarms, they will become well known and respected and receive scholarly awards and, very importantly, more research dollars will come flooding their way. . . It was easy for them to manipulate the data to come up with the results they wanted to make headlines and at the same time drive their environmental agendas.”

“The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. It is all a scam, the result of bad science.”

Temperatures rose four times as fast in 18th century

From David Archibald: “After the invention of thermometers, records started to be kept . . . A number of interesting things can be seen in this record, including the depths of the Little Ice Age in the late 17th century when the Thames regularly froze over, and the Dalton Minimum which was the last time the Thames froze over in the City of London.”

“What is also interesting is the 2.2F temperature rise from 7.8F in 1696 to 10.0F in 1732. This is a 2.2F rise is 36 years. By comparison, the world has seen a 0.6F rise over the 100 years of the 20th century. That temperature rise in the early 18th century was four times as large and three times as fast as the rise in the 20th century

Link: http://icecap.us/index.php/go/political-climate



[image]local://upfiles/687741/1F5A710C13FC41E5A180A9FD4555BFAC.jpg[/image]




Lucylastic -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:06:02 PM)

How confident are you that warming has taken place and that humans are mainly responsible?
I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 - there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity.
Dr Phil JOnes from a BBC interview done in 2010
including these figures
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/science/monitoring/data-graphic.GIF
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm




DanaYielding -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:07:38 PM)

quote:

.....or for absolute certainty what is causing this one.


This, is my point, and you read through the words to find it all on your own. and snarky is in my nature, hehe

[sm=yahoo.gif]




Hillwilliam -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:10:19 PM)

So, MSLA. Do you think we should keep burning those fossil fuels and selling the future of our country to the OPEC and the Chinese?

Also, regarding your graph at the bottom. I'm sorry but an 8th grader could see that your lines for Mean and trend don't fit that data.

Mind telling us where those conclusions came from?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:11:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

quote:

.....or for absolute certainty what is causing this one.


This, is my point, and you read through the words to find it all on your own. and snarky is in my nature, hehe

[sm=yahoo.gif]

In other words, you have no point except to regurgitate what you have been told to say by your corporate masters.




DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:17:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Its seems like insanity not to see that taking action to look after the ecosystems that ultimately sustain life on earth as a priority.


The imminence of the Rapture makes sustainability irrelevant.


How's this for an End Of The World scenario: global warming heats the earth enough that more volcanoes start erupting; their eruptions act like rocket engines, and push the earth out of orbit and into the sun.

Seriously - climate change is a proven fact. Just ask the polar bears. The only reason we endure clowns like the climate deniers is because climate change is a 'liberal' concept, and they are so filled with hate and insane rage (eh, 'sanity'?) that they will do anything to discredit and destroy liberalism.

As someone mentioned about putting NASA to useful work on space based energy, this dates back to the 50s at least in science fiction: huge wire arrays converting solar flux into microwaves and beaming them down to receiver grids in remote places like Arizona. Unlimited power with no moving parts and no carbon footprint at all. Depreciate the cost over the life of the project (100 years?) and the kilowatt cost will be most competitive.

[sm=doh.gif]




vincentML -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:19:47 PM)

quote:

Like many people I don't pretend to be top of the detail of the climate change debate. It's far too technical for me. So I'm forced to rely on the public debate. To date, I've been singularly unimpressed by the case put up by the deniers.


Firstly, allow me to object to the use of the term ‘deniers’ as politically and emotionally loaded due to its previous history in connection with the Jewish Shoah. The preferred term here is ‘skeptics.’

The central issue in the debate over anthropogenic climate change revolves around the causal role of CO2. The documentary film that started the currently never ending debate was presented by ex-veep Al Gore. In it he showed a graph of the temperature and atmospheric carbon data taken from the Vostok Ice Core over the last several hundred thousand years. It struck me when I saw it that contrary to what Gore was saying the rise in atmospheric carbon LAGGED the temperature rise. It clearly did not happen before hand. The same graph was published by the IPCC. I have seen it but I was unable to find it for this writing. It has been published elsewhere however.

I did find part of the graph in what appears to be a publication of the Uni of Wyoming

Have a look at the second line which is the temperature record and the third line which records the carbon concentration. The graph is read from RIGHT to LEFT because it represents time to the present. Notice two rapid temperature rises. The first began about 140,000 years ago. The second at about 18,000 years ago. These two blips represent interglacials. Look closely please. In both cases the rise in carbon FOLLOWS the temperature rise.

In the third paragraph below the graph the authors remark that the coefficient of correlation between the two variables is 0.81. We agree that correlation is not the same as cause/effect, right? They go on to state that: during times of cooling the CO2 changed after the temperature change, by up to 1000 years. This order of events is not what one would expect from the enhanced greenhouse effect. but they fudge the deglaciation periods by asserting the changes take place simultaneously. Who you gonna believe? Not your lyin’ eyes!

In an abstract from Science Magazine we learn that: High-resolution records from Antarctic ice cores show that carbon dioxide concentrations increased by 80 to 100 parts per million by volume 600 ± 400 years after the warming of the last three deglaciations. So, if changes in carbon dioxide concentrations follow changes in temperature, please tell me how anthropogenic green house gases are involved in the climate change that began around 1880.

Oh, and while you are at it please explain the occurrence of the Late Medieval Warming of 900-1300 [absent the green house gases of the industrial revolution] that preceded the Little Ice Age of 1310 – 1880.

So, is the series of IPCC reports just political junk science?

I wish to suggest that skepticism is a valid posture in the face of political/scientific consensus.




DanaYielding -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:20:29 PM)

i see, feel, know, what is happening in my climate. Last winter was cold, from sept 1 to may 1. This year, very mild and above ave. temps. Next winter? who knows? Last summer? Not a day over 100 degrees, the summer before, 12 consecutive days above 100. Some years it snows more than others. Nothing in my climate has led me to believe, in my own personal observation (let's call it my own scientific observation) that it is getting warmer, or colder for that matter.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:43:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

i see, feel, know, what is happening in my climate. Last winter was cold, from sept 1 to may 1. This year, very mild and above ave. temps. Next winter? who knows? Last summer? Not a day over 100 degrees, the summer before, 12 consecutive days above 100. Some years it snows more than others. Nothing in my climate has led me to believe, in my own personal observation (let's call it my own scientific observation) that it is getting warmer, or colder for that matter.

So, you have nothing past your own personal observations. OK, that's cool. Most people dont. The problem is that you are basing your whole conclusion on one location for a few years. There's a reason it's called global climate change. It takes literally millions of observations over thousands of years of data to draw any conclusions. Complicate that with the fact that, until recently, we just didn't even have the instruments to measure it so there is a lot of extrapolation going on.


The wierd thing about 'warming' is that, in one worst case scenario, northern Europe would become nearly uninhabitable because of the cold. That might be the reason they are a bit more sensetive to the possibility than folks in the states.
To most people, it's like debating evolution. If they can't see it actually happening in front of their eyes, they don't believe it exists. Most people can't comprehend the numbers required nor do they have the knowledge of chemistry and Physics. A million is just a one with a bunch of zeroes and invisible gasses are all alike. To internalize that information is totally foreign to them.




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:43:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

i see, feel, know, what is happening in my climate. Last winter was cold, from sept 1 to may 1. This year, very mild and above ave. temps. Next winter? who knows? Last summer? Not a day over 100 degrees, the summer before, 12 consecutive days above 100. Some years it snows more than others. Nothing in my climate has led me to believe, in my own personal observation (let's call it my own scientific observation) that it is getting warmer, or colder for that matter.


You're referring to what would normally be called 'weather' rather than 'climate'.




PeonForHer -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:49:19 PM)


quote:

Oh, and while you are at it please explain the occurrence of the Late Medieval Warming of 900-1300 [absent the green house gases of the industrial revolution] that preceded the Little Ice Age of 1310 – 1880.


Just as a FYI, found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period :

The warm period became known as the MWP, and the cold period was called the Little Ice Age (LIA). However, this view was questioned by other researchers; the IPCC First Assessment Report of 1990 discussed the "Medieval Warm Period around 1000 AD (which may not have been global) and the Little Ice Age which ended only in the middle to late nineteenth century."[15] The IPCC Third Assessment Report from 2001 summarised research at that time, saying "... current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this time frame, and the conventional terms of 'Little Ice Age' and 'Medieval Warm Period' appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries".[16] Global temperature records taken from ice cores, tree rings, and lake deposits, have shown that, taken globally, the Earth may have been slightly cooler (by 0.03 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' than in the early and mid-20th century.[17] Crowley and Lowery (2000)[18] note that "there is insufficient documentation as to its existence in the Southern hemisphere."





DanaYielding -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 1:54:46 PM)

Oh well, it's all good. I'll rely on my personal observations and you go ahead and keep relying on what others tell you.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 2:00:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanaYielding

Oh well, it's all good. I'll rely on my personal observations and you go ahead and keep relying on what others tell you.


Personal observations are great as long as you are just interested in the space for a few miles on either side of you. The world is a little larger than that.


As I said before. My concerns are much more economic than climatological.

If you want OPEC to keep buttfucking us over an oil drum and the Chinese to own what's left, all you have to do is pull for status quo.

Development of alternative energy would have us back as the preeminent economic and scientific force on the planet and those fuckers can go back to eating dirt and rocks.




Aswad -> RE: Climate change denial: Epic fail? (1/3/2012 2:09:09 PM)

I think Hillwilliam has made the most relevant point here:

Regardless of climate issues, oil simply isn't a viable fuel. We need the oil for plastic, lubrication, metalworking, hydraulics, pharmaceuticals, industrial processes, major chemical synthesis routes, and so many other important areas where there is no viable substitute that it borders on a crime against humanity to burn oil. The gaseous fuels we extract can possibly be tolerated for fuel use in a few applications, as they are not an absolute requirement of life as we know it, but liquid ones are simply put life by the gallon.

Similarly, another oft-neglected aspect of the climate question is phosphates. DNA requires phosphates. All plants and animals that can be used as a source of food for human life depend on phosphates. And we're running out, because we waste it. There is no replacement for phosphate, as phosphorous is an element. You would need a supernova to make a substantial quantity of it, regardless of the financial side of the issue. And we don't have the means to fetch more from other planets. Period. It is also used in all electronics.

Which doesn't even touch on the potential for the Gulf Stream changes to tip over into the range where oxygen depletion occurs in the oceans, causing oil to regenerate at the expense of the planet temporarily losing the ability to support life as we know it, including human life. That occurs on its own occasionally, and whether we're causing it or not, the markers at present point toward the possibility of such a process being underway. Environmental issues, of course, are too low on the list of priorities for humans to be able to expect to have sufficient advance warning of such an event to prevent one from causing an extinction event.

As many have pointed out, the question at the moment isn't whether the climate is changing.

It's what we do about it. And one side of that question is whether we're the cause of the current change. I hope we are. Because if we are, we might be able to change the climate by making sweeping, but tolerable, changes to our way of life. If we aren't the cause, then it is going to be a lot more challenging. Then we're going to have to use orders of magnitude more resources to change it, meaning far more changes to our way of life. Not just expenses and comforts, but some real dramatic, fundamental changes. Because there's no question the climate is headed toward a catastrophe for us.

There's no profit in extinction.

On a lighter note, or at least a less abstract one, I'll relate the local climate experiences.

Here in the western parts of Norway, a country the size of Texas, we're used to a fair bit of bad weather, but winter rarely sees anything above storm level winds. The Gulf Stream keeps the temperatures in a pleasant enough range, with sleet or rain being more typical of the season than snow. Further north, they drop to -80F (-60C) in the winters, and the winds are about the same. Inland, east and south are fairly even, have less wind, and don't usually drop below -10F (-20C).

1982 was the last time we had a real hurricane.

As we speak, hurricane Emil is headed for the south and east. It's the fifth one this winter, of which Berit (Christmas) and Dagmar (last week) are the other two that have reached category 3 at landfall. People are still being evacuated by airlift, after a mile long landslide, the largest of many. One area  was isolated by six major slides, and the railroads have been trashed several times so far. Thousands are still without electricity or telephones. While the coastline is used to a bit of rough wind every now and then, we're not used to roofs being thrown through people's living rooms. Nor are we used to swells of 8m/25ft, either. Nor 30m/100ft waves. There's been substantial flooding near the coast.

These past storms have hit areas where a strong gale is no excuse not to take the ferry to school, and where people know how to deal with a rough patch of weather. Even so, Dagmar crossed an area about equivalent to the width of Mexico to cause substantial damages as far east as Finland. On the first day after, about $50B worth of insurance claims had been filed. That's about $100K per person in the affected area, on average. I am fortunate enough to live in a sweet spot, and it's been on the outskirts of the storms, so I haven't experienced any trouble from them. The only damage has been a tree in the garden that was yanked up and tossed across the nearby road, and some brief outages, most of them from lightning accompanying the storms.

Emil will hit an area not used to storms, making landfall as a category 3 at best.

If that is the new trend, 5-10% of the population must move.

Health,
al-Aswad.





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